A Defense of Kirby's 4th World Series

[bronze johnny]

I am willing to bet that the bunch of collectors you seem to represent are in the minority.

 

I doubt this, unless you are talking about those who grew up in the Silver Age and view Kirby through rose-colored glasses. For anyone else who bought their first comic after Kirby left Marvel, I can assure you that we're in the majority. Everyone I knew thought "Kirby Sucked" due to his horrible 1970's output.

 

I also remember hearing a story about how the DC and Marvel offices used to paste up the latest Kirby work on the bulletin board, and sit around laughing at it. He was a joke in the 1970's, even among his contemporaries.

 

-The majority of people I know believe that the Fourth World is Kirby's "gift" to the Bronze Age.

 

You can refer to a story of which is unsupported by any legitimate source and post it as a reason why Kirby sucks, I'll stick with referring to Robert Overstreet and Zonker's Harlan Ellison referral to support my contention.

[Rip]

I am willing to bet that the bunch of collectors you seem to represent are in the minority.

 

I doubt this, unless you are talking about those who grew up in the Silver Age and view Kirby through rose-colored glasses. For anyone else who bought their first comic after Kirby left Marvel, I can assure you that we're in the majority. Everyone I knew thought "Kirby Sucked" due to his horrible 1970's output.

 

I also remember hearing a story about how the DC and Marvel offices used to paste up the latest Kirby work on the bulletin board, and sit around laughing at it. He was a joke in the 1970's, even among his contemporaries.

 

Ditto

[Rocketeer]

In my mind it never gets better than "Dingbats of Danger Street"...Man!!! that Kirby had his hand on the pulse of 10 year old kids back in 1975,...what genius!!!!! ....inner city white street gangs were a big threat when I was growing up,.......I could really relate to this book....

[bronze johnny]

What's your point?

 

Try reading the thread.

 

I will restate to you that Kirby's early Bronze Age stuff, particularly the Fourth World, is what I'm defending. Do you know what the Early Bronze Age is?

 

Sorry, but it's not 1975.

 

Again, do yourself a favor and try reading the thread.

[Tango 'n Cash]

Uh oh, it looks like BRONZEJOHNNNY is getting angry.

[Rocketeer]

What's your point?

 

Try reading the thread.

 

I will restate to you that Kirby's early Bronze Age stuff, particularly the Fourth World, is what I'm defending. Do you know what the Early Bronze Age is?

 

Sorry, but it's not 1975.

 

Again, do yourself a favor and try reading the thread.

 

...Maybe not Sheet-bag,..I guess I don't understand the history of funny books as much as a genius like you.....why don't you take a moment and try to edumacate me!!!!.............and before you get your cotton panel all damp again you shill without a clue, I believe the turn of the thread has taken us to Kirby's crappy work in the early 70's as a whole,...It's not really fair to separate his early Bronze crape form his late Bronze crape,...cause you know what?....they were all crape,...Kirby didn't do a lick of work past 1969 that was worth a dime,......

[Aman619]

Bronze Johnny, those of us who were there buying the Kirby comics in the 709s when they came out were almost universally less than impressed. And that lasted a year or two because sales were bad. To me the 2 worst elements were Royers inking, which emphasized Kirby's loose pencils work as opposed to Sinnott and othert Marvel inkers who brought out his power and solidity. and 2, Jacks uninhibited (or edited!) scripts. I remember shaking my head trying to read those dam things.

 

but, clearly you loved all of it, so god bless you! thats cool with me. So please allow the rest of us to just disagree with your assessment.

[bronze johnny]

...Maybe not Sheet-bag,..I guess I don't understand the history of funny books as much as a genius like you.....why don't you take a moment and try to edumacate me!!!!.............

 

 

Good response. Shows you have class. Try sticking to the subject and staying away from personal attacks.

[bronze johnny]

aman619:

 

I respectfully understand your position but my defense of Kirby is what he did in the Early Bronze Age- particularly the Fourth World.

[Rocketeer]

...

 

Good response. Shows you have class. Try sticking to the subject and staying away from personal attacks.

 

...you're right,...my apologies,.......what's the opposite of above me?........

[bronze johnny]

...you're right,...my apologies,.......what's the opposite of above me?........

 

 

Still shows you have alot of class.

[shadroch]

According to Overstreet;

The Bronze Age was from 1970-1984.

First half of the bronze Age 1970-1977

Second half 1978-1984

 

A book that was released in the summer of 1975 would certainly seem to fall undr the timeframe of "early" Bronze Age to me.Dingbats was published right around the time GiantSize X-men #1 hit the stands.Even if you broke the Age into thirds,it is in the first part.

[Rocketeer]

...Shad,..don't come into this thread all logical with facts and stuff.......DID YOU EVEN READ THE THREAD!!??

[bronze johnny]

Shadroch your point is well taken but I see the Bronze Age being divided up into 5 year intervals and define them as the following:

 

1970-1974- Early Bronze Age

1975-1979- Middle Bronze Age

1980-1984- Late Bronze Age

[Tango 'n Cash]

Shadroch your point is well taken but I see the Bronze Age being divided up ....

 

Sorry, but who cares? I divide them based on what new comics were released or cancelled, and the trends, such as the noticeable shift at Marvel from 1977-78-on.

[MikeS]

Good points. Devil Dinosaur is a very baffling comic to me cause it doesn't really seem to fit in anywhere else and seems to be far and away worse than anything else he did conceptually, artistically, and especially it had the worst writing he did in my opinion. Maybe it was just purposefully aimed at a younger audience? Pure speculation on my part, but maybe after seeing his attempts to reach a higher level audience fail, he resigned himself to writing for the younger audiences that he had been so successful with. In a sense, then, this would be an example of Kirby seeing his own limitations.

That being said, remember, I am a Kirby fan, but I really can't say anything good about that comic...

Joe

 

Marvel was trying to sell Devil Dinosaur as a Saturday morning cartoon show, so it did shoot for a younger audience....

[shadroch]

Can we all agree that Kirbys later Bronze work was not up to par and not particularly brilliant? That as he aged,his work declined,even if we can't agree as to when the decline started?

[Aman619]

aman619:

 

I respectfully understand your position but my defense of Kirby is what he did in the Early Bronze Age- particularly the Fourth World.

 

well, I was TALKING about the Fourth World! We got all excited that Kirby is Here!!! and then we bought them and scratched our heads. We TRIED real hard to love them... but... sigh.

[ComicBookGuy]

Good points. Devil Dinosaur is a very baffling comic to me cause it doesn't really seem to fit in anywhere else and seems to be far and away worse than anything else he did conceptually, artistically, and especially it had the worst writing he did in my opinion. Maybe it was just purposefully aimed at a younger audience? Pure speculation on my part, but maybe after seeing his attempts to reach a higher level audience fail, he resigned himself to writing for the younger audiences that he had been so successful with. In a sense, then, this would be an example of Kirby seeing his own limitations.

That being said, remember, I am a Kirby fan, but I really can't say anything good about that comic...

Joe

 

Marvel was trying to sell Devil Dinosaur as a Saturday morning cartoon show, so it did shoot for a younger audience....

 

Thanks for this info! I find this very interesting and goes towards explaining a lot. My guess is that the show didn't sell? I have never heard of it as a tv show.

Joe

[ComicBookGuy]

Can we all agree that Kirbys later Bronze work was not up to par and not particularly brilliant? That as he aged,his work declined,even if we can't agree as to when the decline started?

 

For my part, I think this is a very accurate statement. The points of contention that remain seem to be...

 

1) what the quality of his early bronze work with DC is, and

 

2) the tone of our discussion, which, I feel, should be more civil overall.

 

Joe