Why don't dealers have all high-value comics graded?

[mlovest]

This makes sense to me. I do get a bit frustrated when books I want get too expensive, but I apprciate that the rest of my NM books keep going up in value!

 

V/R,

Mike

[tay666]

I'd be willing to bet a lot of it has to do with time.

There aren't a lot of dealers that can afford to tie up inventory for 3 or 4 months.

That is money that is spent and is now tied up. If they send it out for grading, there is no chance to get that money back until the book comes back from CGC.

 

And if during that time 3 or 4 other copies turn up in even higher grade, they might end up loosing money on the book.

[RustyStaple]

My job requires me to be on the road, so I visit as many shops in my off time that I can. It surprises me the lack of CGC's books at the LCS level. When you chat with the owners, if they have dealt with a CGC book, most likely it was put up on eBay to get better exposure.

[mlovest]

I'd be willing to bet a lot of it has to do with time.

There aren't a lot of dealers that can afford to tie up inventory for 3 or 4 months.

That is money that is spent and is now tied up. If they send it out for grading, there is no chance to get that money back until the book comes back from CGC.

 

And if during that time 3 or 4 other copies turn up in even higher grade, they might end up loosing money on the book.

 

Yes, the time issue is huge, but if the return ends up being 2, 3, 4, or 5 times the original asking price, assuming the copy really is a high grade copy, then the seller would be rewarded. With Ebay, you can sell a high-grade book pretty fast and usually make good money, especially for the older comics.

 

V/R,

Mike

[the blob]

"Now I clearly have no issue with books that aren't valued more then a $100"

 

Why would a dealer want to spend $30 or so to have a book that guides at $100 slabbed? Heck, $150. Why would anyone unless you're darn certain it's coming back a 9.6, 9.8, etc.?

[Foolkiller]

I love Ted, but the reason why dealers don't have more of their books slabbed is probably a combination of things:

 

If a dealer has an incredibly high grade book they are sure is unrestored, I have a hard time believing they will ever fail to get the book slabbed so matter what their reputation is. A raw 9.6 early silver book just won't command the same raw as it will slabbed. That's just reality.

 

The reason Ted and some of the other dealers leave some of the books unslabbed is that they have a customer base seeking raw books, and they are pricing it probably at about 9.2 slabbed prices, without enduring the time or expense of having it slabbed. Ted's grading is spotty. I love the guy, but that's the truth. Sometimes he's right on, other times, the book can be a half or a point off. I don't books from Ted hoping to slab them and have them come back 9.4s or 9.6s... but I will try and buy 9.0s and 8.5s from Ted because he's generally more on with those books, and I think he's a great guy and worthy of support.

 

That said, I was told point blank by one dealer that he will often leave 9.2s/9.0s raw in the hopes someone will pay inflated prices trying to play the guessing game and speculate what the book will come back as.

[Ze-man]

BK.. not sure if you were guessing, or you spoke directly with Ted about this.. Because you are dead on correct.

I DID ask him awhile ago about why he always had a fairly large amount of decent Mid/HG stuff.. and he simply said.." I just dont have the time, or desire to play the CGC guessing game."

 

As you said..he is already asking over guide for most of the nice 9.0 and above RAW stuff. He knows what people get for CGC books.. he just chooses to let the folks pay a decent, over guide price.. let them send it in, and see if the book grades out at what the buyer hopes it will.

He probably has probably lost money on a few books he shoulda slabbed.... But I bet he has also made money with this approach.

I imagine he moves ALOT more comics this way.

And turnover is part of the game aint it?

 

Plus having a large base group of RAW junkies does not hurt eiher.

 

Ze-

[sfilosa]

"Now I clearly have no issue with books that aren't valued more then a $100"

 

Why would a dealer want to spend $30 or so to have a book that guides at $100 slabbed? Heck, $150. Why would anyone unless you're darn certain it's coming back a 9.6, 9.8, etc.?

 

 

The same reason that people submit modern books and pay $15, in hopes of selling it for $25. Because RAW, the book will not command GUIDE PRICES.

 

I have yet to hear one collector say they are consistently happy with 9.4 or higher books bought from dealers. They always say the person is better in the mid grades or even VF/NM range. But the difference in price between 9.2 and 9.4 is usually over double and therefore, paying anything close to guide price and getting a CGC 9.2 is a loser (except for certain keys and rare books), while getting a 9.4 is a winner.

 

Please tell me dealers that you feel comfortable that their NM's come back from CGC 9.4's more times then not.

[Foolkiller]

I have briefly discussed this with Ted, though he was not the dealer who told me point blank that part of the strategy employed by many dealers is to heighten prices on raw books so that it's more than they could ordinarily get for the book, but less than what a slabbed copy would command.

 

Even dealers with consistent accurate grading (like Bob Storms) keep a large raw inventory because they want people to dig through their boxes.

 

I ran into a guy at the Philly show on Sunday who was telling a story of how he pulled a 9.6 or 9.8 Spidey from one of Bob's boxes (he then went back to Bob to say 'you missed one' which I thought was a mistake to like rub it in his face but whatever). He felt it was a miss and Bob was upset. I'm sure Bob wasn't thrilled about it, but at the same time, he knows that the guy will probably dig through his boxes more often in trying to find that "hidden treasure". Dealers want to move raw inventory cause they can't and don't want to get it all slabbed. To me, dealers aren't upset when you find a gem, they want you to keep coming back and digging throught those boxes because you'll miss as well.

[Ze-man]

Right on BK..

 

But I guess to get back On Topic.. he did ask about High Value Comics in this thread.

 

It does make sense, and seem to be the norm.. if you own a HG Key type book, that is a proven mover to get it certified

..It would be foolish to think a savvy seller would not mind waiting a few months to make 3-5-10x more money on a certain book slabbed , versus what he might get for it RAW.

Not to mention proving it is resto free as well.

The people normally buying these books slabbed, know the price of slabbing the book has been added into the asking price. So do RAW HG High Value comics sell for a lower price for that reason as well?

 

The nice RAW stuff in the long boxes you speak of is indeed there to be had, but normally anything of worth is not in a long box, waiting to be discovered by a treasure seeker.

It is up on the wall RAW.. or in a CGC slab.. on the wall. With a price tag that reflects its condition.

 

Ze-

[Ze-man]

And on the flip side.. as was mentioned to me just now.. even the best of sellers probably have done this.

 

Selling HG comics RAW is an easy way to ask a HIGH price for a certain book.... Even though some might not agree with how you graded it.

 

This is not exactly being decitful (because grading is subjective)..

To call a potential 8.0 comic, a 9.0... is open to personal opinion, and grading interpretation.

But if the original asking price is closer to the 9.0 price(meaning alot more) , and the seller comes down, closer to the known 8.0 price to make the sale, well they got what they wanted outa the book .. while that is not really being decitful..it is just good salesmanship.

 

Versus selling/pricing a CGC book..it is what it is.. the Grade on the label is a finite thing, and is not open to as much interpetation.

 

This is more then likely an age old..and touchy subject with dealers.. .. Kenny ..you can stop talking now.

I am not trying to spin a conspiracy theory here.. just putting 2 and 2 together.

 

Not even sure if my post even made sense, in fact as I re read it.... I realize how hard it is to try and type out something that would only take 2 minutes to convey over the phone.

 

Ze-

[the blob]

"Please tell me dealers that you feel comfortable that their NM's come back from CGC 9.4's more times then not."

 

having only bought my slabs in the aftermarket i haven't had the opportunity to do this. i have bought from some people who give books 9.0s and 9.2s that appear perfect to me. cgc i don't know what they'd say. my favorite sources shall remain anonymous!

 

But let's say I have something like an ASM 100 in nice shape. I'd guess the folks at CGC give it a 9.0 or 9.2. of course, it was marked as a 9.4 by carbonaro 12 years ago, but i didn't pay a NM price, so I don't care. Is this something where the comic collecting community expects that book be slabbed and am I going to get my $30 back + a premium over what I'd get raw with some huge scans (if I was a dealer with a reputation)?

 

9.4, 9.6, 9.8 -- yes, if you're going to call a SA book (or a BA a 9.6 or 9.8), you will get a better net price slabbed and it's probably worth it most of the time, although probably not for a 9.4 Iron Man 14 or something like that.

 

But if you think it's a 9.2, is the $30 slabbing fee and wait worth it? Not on most late SA and BA books. maybe not even for a 9.4.

[sfilosa]

But if you think it's a 9.2, is the $30 slabbing fee and wait worth it? Not on most late SA and BA books. maybe not even for a 9.4.

 

That's why I said if the book wasn't worth at least $100 (say in 9.4), I could see why dealers wouldn't get them graded (even if they thought it was NM).

 

But the original post was about EXPENSIVE books, which I see lots of books at shows that have sticker prices in the $100's to $1,000's of dollars. Even a low grade key book is worth getting slabbed if for nothing else, to prove no restoration.

[tay666]

..It would be foolish to think a savvy seller would not mind waiting a few months to make 3-5-10x more money on a certain book slabbed , versus what he might get for it RAW.

 

That depends on how much working capital the dealer has too.

If he can afford to tie up the cash in the book while he waits for it to come back from CGC then yes, it would be kind of foolish to take less by selling it raw.

But if the rent, the taxes, and a few other bills are coming due soon, and he needs to make some money on it in the next couple of months, then waiting for CGC might not be possible.

[blazingbob]

I have said this before and I will say it again. Not everyone buys CGC books.

 

100 books at a minimum cost $2500 + shipping and are gone 4-5 months. Multiple that 10 X and you are at $25,000 + cash flow is greatly affected.

 

You have to have the sales in order to support the submissions. Therre are a lot of dealers that are one deal away from being homeless. Do you really think they can all afford to have everything graded?

[sfilosa]

You have to have the sales in order to support the submissions. Therre are a lot of dealers that are one deal away from being homeless. Do you really think they can all afford to have everything graded?

 

I would agree that the phrase "all high grade books" is too strong. First of all, most of the books that I see that are EXPENSIVE and RAW, are NOT HG (i.e. VF/NM or better). They might be VF copies of early Marvel Keys, but it's not like they are NM- to borderline NM. I know when I went to Mega Con, not one of the major dealers had VF/NM key books. They were either graded or they didn't have them.

 

All that said, how was LA?

 

And I see a few new nice keys on your site. Are you getting any more books back from CGC soon?

[blazingbob]

I have 100 CGC books from the new collection that will be posted over the next couple of days. I am basically exhausted from last weeks mini Chicago show, 2 days home and this weekend's 5 day California show tour.

[sfilosa]

Don't forget to mention them in the MarketPlace.

 

Once again, those are some nice Marvel Keys you just added.

[Foolkiller]

There are a lot of dealers that are one deal away from being homeless

 

quote of the day.

[Ze-man]

Would you take my right arm as trade for that TTA #27?

Because I would be willing to part with it for that book.

 

Ze-

 

 

( Dont worry.. I am left handed.)