Is it the 1990s?

[COI]

It's sure looking like the 1990's.

 

My Star Wars #1...CGC 9.8, signed by Chaykin, white pages, the works...just sold for $861....a low price not achieved in well over a year.

 

Three minutes earlier, another copy, this one NOT signed, but otherwise pretty much identical....sold for $1325.

 

$464 LESS for the signed copy. If you don't think that screams incredible market instability, you don't know what you're doing.

 

 

You people paying these crazy prices are SCREWED if you think you're going to make your money back.

 

 

 

Salty.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It's sure looking like the 1990's.

 

My Star Wars #1...CGC 9.8, signed by Chaykin, white pages, the works...just sold for $861....a low price not achieved in well over a year.

 

Three minutes earlier, another copy, this one NOT signed, but otherwise pretty much identical....sold for $1325.

 

$464 LESS for the signed copy. If you don't think that screams incredible market instability, you don't know what you're doing.

 

 

You people paying these crazy prices are SCREWED if you think you're going to make your money back.

 

 

 

Salty.

 

Mmm hmm.

[COI]

It's sure looking like the 1990's.

 

My Star Wars #1...CGC 9.8, signed by Chaykin, white pages, the works...just sold for $861....a low price not achieved in well over a year.

 

Three minutes earlier, another copy, this one NOT signed, but otherwise pretty much identical....sold for $1325.

 

$464 LESS for the signed copy. If you don't think that screams incredible market instability, you don't know what you're doing.

 

 

You people paying these crazy prices are SCREWED if you think you're going to make your money back.

 

 

 

Salty.

 

Mmm hmm.

 

For the record, I totally agree with your conclusion.

 

But salty.

[StuporMan]

It's sure looking like the 1990's.

 

My Star Wars #1...CGC 9.8, signed by Chaykin, white pages, the works...just sold for $861....a low price not achieved in well over a year.

 

Three minutes earlier, another copy, this one NOT signed, but otherwise pretty much identical....sold for $1325.

 

$464 LESS for the signed copy. If you don't think that screams incredible market instability, you don't know what you're doing.

 

 

You people paying these crazy prices are SCREWED if you think you're going to make your money back.

 

 

 

Salty.

 

Mmm hmm.

 

For the record, I totally agree with your conclusion.

 

But salty.

 

I've had the same thing happen. 9.8s are pretty volatile to begin with, then add no reserve bidding to the mix...

[the blob]

RMA, how many times are you going to let yourself get skrewed putting this type of stuff up for auction?? At this point you are just asking for a bad result.

 

RMA, what you are describing sounds more like bid manipulation or punishment bidding. $400+ less for an unsigned copy during contemporaneous auctions is irrational. One would think at that price point bidders have all the copies within their field of vision. I just can't believe serious bidders are turned off by an SS book signed by the artist.

 

As many have pointed out, while there is a lot of craziness going on, the craziness is quite different this time around. a market centered around key issues and hard to find stuff seems to have more chance of not going down the krapper than a market based on pumping out 750,000 copies of Brigade 1 or Punisher 2099 1 and hoping to sell them for double cover down the road or 50,000 copy "limited" "gold" editions. Saga 1 might be Harbinger 1, but inflation adjusted it ain't close.

 

98-99% of the regular edition comics coming out have no speculative value and people know it. that was not the case in the early 90s where people thought 99% of the comics coming out were investment quality.

 

variants are trickier, true, and i don't own enough, sell enough or buy enough of them to have an opinion. frankly, i don't know if people buying $5-$10 variants are doing to because they think they will go up in value or because they are completionists and think they're cool. I suppose people buying $50 variants are hoping to profit most of the time.

 

as for every 1st app of any character that is remotely relevant becoming worth something....I dunno, it still leaves a lot of comics worthless. Look at Suicide Squad from the 80s. Something that should be hot right now. About 4-5 issues of the series are worth something for whatever reason and the rest are just filler at $1-$3 for someone looking to complete the series. How many issues of X-Men from 144 - 500 fall into the same boat? How many issues of Iron Man from 130 - 300+. Even Batman, which probably has as many issues popping at any given time as any title, has big dry patches. Ditto Spiderman. While it seems like more books are popping at the same time than ever before, when you look at it from the perspective of how much is out there, it isn't that much.

 

There is still a ton of good material out there that is quite affordable. Not flavor of the month stuff, but good stuff. Of course, the same was true in 1993 I suppose. All aspects of the market can't be firing on all pistons at once.

 

 

[Dale Roberts]

RMA, how many times are you going to let yourself get skrewed putting this type of stuff up for auction?? At this point you are just asking for a bad result.

 

RMA, what you are describing sounds more like bid manipulation or punishment bidding. $400+ less for an unsigned copy during contemporaneous auctions is irrational. One would think at that price point bidders have all the copies within their field of vision. I just can't believe serious bidders are turned off by an SS book signed by the artist in a non-ugly way, particularly on only a 9.4.

 

As many have pointed out, while there is a lot of craziness going on, the craziness is quite different this time around. a market centered around key issues and hard to find stuff seems to have more chance of not going down the krapper than a market based on pumping out 750,000 copies of Brigade 1 or Punisher 2099 1 and hoping to sell them for double cover down the road or 50,000 copy "limited" "gold" editions. Saga 1 might be Harbinger 1, but inflation adjusted it ain't close.

 

98-99% of the regular edition comics coming out have no speculative value and people know it. that was not the case in the early 90s where people thought 99% of the comics coming out were investment quality.

 

variants are trickier, true, and i don't own enough, sell enough or buy enough of them to have an opinion. frankly, i don't know if people buying $5-$10 variants are doing to because they think they will go up in value or because they are completionists and think they're cool. I suppose people buying $50 variants are hoping to profit most of the time.

 

as for every 1st app of any character that is remotely relevant becoming worth something....I dunno, it still leaves a lot of comics worthless. Look at Suicide Squad from the 80s. Something that should be hot right now. About 4-5 issues of the series are worth something for whatever reason and the rest are just filler at $1-$3 for someone looking to complete the series. How many issues of X-Men from 144 - 500 fall into the same boat? How many issues of Iron Man from 130 - 300+. Even Batman, which probably has as many issues popping at any given time as any title, has big dry patches. Ditto Spiderman. While it seems like more books are popping at the same time than ever before, when you look at it from the perspective of how much is out there, it isn't that much.

 

There is still a ton of good material out there that is quite affordable. Not flavor of the month stuff, but good stuff. Of course, the same was true in 1993 I suppose. All aspects of the market can't be firing on all pistons at once.

 

 

 

Its also highly possible that you are selling the highest graded Star Wars #1 to someone other than your traditional comic book collector. If that's the case, they probably have no idea who Howard Chaykin is. I have been in comics all my life and I couldn't pick him out of a lineup.

 

You should have had it signed by Stan

[Prince Namor]

RMA, how many times are you going to let yourself get skrewed putting this type of stuff up for auction?? At this point you are just asking for a bad result.

 

RMA, what you are describing sounds more like bid manipulation or punishment bidding. $400+ less for an unsigned copy during contemporaneous auctions is irrational. One would think at that price point bidders have all the copies within their field of vision. I just can't believe serious bidders are turned off by an SS book signed by the artist in a non-ugly way, particularly on only a 9.4.

 

As many have pointed out, while there is a lot of craziness going on, the craziness is quite different this time around. a market centered around key issues and hard to find stuff seems to have more chance of not going down the krapper than a market based on pumping out 750,000 copies of Brigade 1 or Punisher 2099 1 and hoping to sell them for double cover down the road or 50,000 copy "limited" "gold" editions. Saga 1 might be Harbinger 1, but inflation adjusted it ain't close.

 

98-99% of the regular edition comics coming out have no speculative value and people know it. that was not the case in the early 90s where people thought 99% of the comics coming out were investment quality.

 

variants are trickier, true, and i don't own enough, sell enough or buy enough of them to have an opinion. frankly, i don't know if people buying $5-$10 variants are doing to because they think they will go up in value or because they are completionists and think they're cool. I suppose people buying $50 variants are hoping to profit most of the time.

 

as for every 1st app of any character that is remotely relevant becoming worth something....I dunno, it still leaves a lot of comics worthless. Look at Suicide Squad from the 80s. Something that should be hot right now. About 4-5 issues of the series are worth something for whatever reason and the rest are just filler at $1-$3 for someone looking to complete the series. How many issues of X-Men from 144 - 500 fall into the same boat? How many issues of Iron Man from 130 - 300+. Even Batman, which probably has as many issues popping at any given time as any title, has big dry patches. Ditto Spiderman. While it seems like more books are popping at the same time than ever before, when you look at it from the perspective of how much is out there, it isn't that much.

 

There is still a ton of good material out there that is quite affordable. Not flavor of the month stuff, but good stuff. Of course, the same was true in 1993 I suppose. All aspects of the market can't be firing on all pistons at once.

 

 

For people who really sell comics, the worry shouldn't be over the value of the what X-Men 144-500 is, it's over customers who leave the hobby.

Those issues can go up, up and up, but if their aren't enough people left to buy them, then it doesn't really matter.

Customer VOLUME solves everything.

Thanks to eBay, there's more COPIES available than ever before, but less buyer's, less interest, and really less to do with today's comics than ever before.

 

What causes people to leave the hobby are variant covers, regurgitated story lines, gimmicks, broken continuity and all of the confusion that is today's modern market ... all the things that made people leave the hobby in the 90's.

They've been taught by this generation, that all that matters is the KEY ISSUES, a speculator driven mentality encouraged by the publishers who always seem to have the next big thing ready to come out, or by breaking up the sequential numbering in an attempt to sell more of a #1.

 

Pre-90's Boom Amazing Spider-man sold 350,000 copies a month - today it sells about 85,000 copies a month.

There are 4X as few people picking that book up monthly than 30 years ago.

 

Did they all leave the hobby? No.

But many did.

They came into it looking for entertainment and instead experienced variant covers, regurgitated story lines, gimmicks...

They felt conned.

So they either left, cut down or found a different kind of comic to read.

 

Today, thanks to the internet, people have options. They can find a more diverse selection of comics before they even step foot in the comic book store (an intimidating place for the unfamiliar).

Marvel and DC can still muscle rack space and send promotional material to hang all over the store and dominate the Previews catalog, but the internet helps level the playing field somewhat.

That way, those who love and appreciate what Marvel and DC have to offer, are able to get what they'd like, and those looking for more, are able to find it as well (and many times even with the help of their local store).

The hobby can GROW.

 

Which leads to more people with an interest in back issues, the history and real collecting.

 

The hope is that people DON'T leave the hobby. That they DO find something that they like. That they realize more options are out there than just superheroes or any one genre.

Because this hobby won't be able to withstand another 4X less a month purging.

 

 

[Ken Aldred]

I thought it was expensive enough 5 years ago. That's the main reason I'm getting frustrated with it, Chuck.

[Prince Namor]

I thought it was expensive enough 5 years ago. That's the main reason I'm getting frustrated with it, Chuck.

 

There's no question, price has a lot to do with it as well.

 

But... I'll gladly shell out $20 for a new book by Dan Clowes or Charles Burns or someone I like, compared to some new Amazing Spider-man collection of current stories.

 

The perception of value, or... trust... is more important to me than just the money.

 

Do I trust, I'll find the Charles Burns book interesting and fulfilling to my interests? Yes.

Do I trust that a random book of Spider-man is going to be interesting and fulfilling to my interests?

No.

 

Why do I feel that way? What made me see it like that?

What have those big publishers done to change that perception?

Will 4X less readers today, become 4X less than that tomorrow because of it?

Will 4X less of 4X less increase PRICE even more, chasing away MORE than 4X as many people?

 

So yeah, totally agree, price plays a huge part.

 

 

[the blob]

Pre-90's Boom Amazing Spider-man sold 350,000 copies a month - today it sells about 85,000 copies a month.

There are 4X as few people picking that book up monthly than 30 years ago.

 

----

 

http://www.comichron.com/titlespotlights/amazingspiderman.html

 

Actually, ASM was a pretty consistent seller in the 260s - 280ks from 1974 - 1989 according to the postal filings and then started going up in the 90s. So, really, more like a dip of 2/3, not 3/4. And I also think a much bigger chunk of those 70s and 80s sales were going into comic shop/dealer inventory than now. Obviously I am pulling #s out of my rear, but my guess is that readership is probably about half these 80s numbers despite sales being like 1/3. Still, not good.

 

(What I find amazing about those sales numbers from the 70s and 80s is how many sales were made by subscription --- 25K or whatever, the sales of a decent selling comic now! --- and I was one of those subscribers despite having three comic shops and two or three newsstands with comics near me!)

 

I don't think it helps that you cannot find a comic book sales outlet for many miles in many places. This has not much to do with funny covers and funky plots, but retailers unwilling to carry them (because they don't sell at $3-$4 a pop and even if they did, unless they sold like gangbusters, they aren't worth the space). Even in NYC there are huge stretches where hundreds of thousands of people live and there are no comic shops and maybe a place like Barnes & Noble carries a few comics, but that's about it. I can only imagine how bad it is in less densely populate areas.

 

Of course, I get it. If people stop reading/buying new comics the back issue market will eventually die. Just like pulps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ken Aldred]

Strange you should mention those indies, Chuck.

 

At LSCC, Forbidden Planet's table usually has some interesting indie material, such as by Clowes and Ware, and I look forward to picking up something a bit different from them. This year, it seemed that about half of their display was composed of DK 3 variant covers. Somewhat disappointing.

[the blob]

From a collector standpoint though with so much emphasis on various "keys" and flavor of the moment new books, a budget collector can pick up a lot of other stuff on the cheap. Even second appearances and what not.

 

For example, I was pricing a higher grade copy and saw a result like this (and a few others) on a Doom Patrol 100, 2d app/origin of the ever popular Beast Boy:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-DOOM-PATROL-NO-100-DC-COMICS-LOWER-GRADE-THE-ORIGIN-OF-BEAST-BOY-/252295660251?hash=item3abdfe42db:g:ptYAAOSwx-9WypHe

 

Under $10 after shipping. I know the copy is a bit rough, but you could have gotten a pretty decent looking copy for under $20 as well:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DOOM-PATROL-100-BRUNO-PREMIANI-SILVER-AGE-P-/351629918797?hash=item51dec6c24d:g:jVAAAOSwYIhWl~tx

 

And then more generic stuff is much cheaper:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Doom-Patrol-103-GD-Early-Beast-Boy-1966-DC-/281949111947?hash=item41a57a068b%3Ag%3AE8wAAOSwPc9WyL69&nma=true&si=tDPZs6IqU8cq0DtliqGg3JLRc%252F8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Heck, shipping is as big a factor as the item on some of these.

 

 

 

 

[StuporMan]

From a collector standpoint though with so much emphasis on various "keys" and flavor of the moment new books, a budget collector can pick up a lot of other stuff on the cheap. Even second appearances and what not.

 

For example, I was pricing a higher grade copy and saw a result like this (and a few others) on a Doom Patrol 100, 2d app/origin of the ever popular Beast Boy:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-DOOM-PATROL-NO-100-DC-COMICS-LOWER-GRADE-THE-ORIGIN-OF-BEAST-BOY-/252295660251?hash=item3abdfe42db:g:ptYAAOSwx-9WypHe

 

Under $10 after shipping. I know the copy is a bit rough, but you could have gotten a pretty decent looking copy for under $20 as well:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DOOM-PATROL-100-BRUNO-PREMIANI-SILVER-AGE-P-/351629918797?hash=item51dec6c24d:g:jVAAAOSwYIhWl~tx

 

And then more generic stuff is much cheaper:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Doom-Patrol-103-GD-Early-Beast-Boy-1966-DC-/281949111947?hash=item41a57a068b%3Ag%3AE8wAAOSwPc9WyL69&nma=true&si=tDPZs6IqU8cq0DtliqGg3JLRc%252F8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Heck, shipping is as big a factor as the item on some of these.

 

 

 

 

 

Early Beastboy in Doom Patrol...

[Ken Aldred]

Drake and Premiani's Doom Patrol is extremely underrated Silver Age.

[fiendish]

Its also highly possible that you are selling the highest graded Star Wars #1 to someone other than your traditional comic book collector. If that's the case, they probably have no idea who Howard Chaykin is. I have been in comics all my life and I couldn't pick him out of a lineup.

 

You should have had it signed by Stan

 

The Graliest of Grails: SW#1 signed by George Lucas.

[Prince Namor]

Strange you should mention those indies, Chuck.

 

At LSCC, Forbidden Planet's table usually has some interesting indie material, such as by Clowes and Ware, and I look forward to picking up something a bit different from them. This year, it seemed that about half of their display was composed of DK 3 variant covers. Somewhat disappointing.

 

Ouch. Disappointing indeed!

[the blob]

Drake and Premiani's Doom Patrol is extremely underrated Silver Age.

 

these were hot at one point in the last 20 years, right?

 

Is Beast Boy/Changeling doing anything in recent DC comics? My kids love him on Teen Titans GO, but 4 and 10 year olds probably arent buying 50 year old silver age books too often...although the 10 year old is pizzed i have listed DP 100 for sale. OTOH, I have it so expensive i doubt it will sell.

 

I see on the 99 cent Doom Patrol 103 the seller is insisting on a 15 cent surcharge to bag and board the book, otherwise i guess it is just taped up inside some cardboard willy nilly? That's a good way to get people not to bid on your stuff.

[Meeklo]

Yes, the 1990s are back:

 

1. Rob Liefeld New Mutants #86, 87, 98, 100, X-force #1, 2 hot

2. Lobo hot

3. Tick gaining momentum thanks to live action Amazon tv show in production.

4. Death of Superman #75 on big screen.

5. Dark Knight vol. 1 #4 battle on the movie screens.

 

6. Age of Apocalypse seems to be a hot topic (in CG at least)

7. There is a Clinton running for President. (Not meant to be a political discussion, just a coincidental observation)

[StuporMan]

Drake and Premiani's Doom Patrol is extremely underrated Silver Age.

 

these were hot at one point in the last 20 years, right?

 

Is Beast Boy/Changeling doing anything in recent DC comics? My kids love him on Teen Titans GO, but 4 and 10 year olds probably arent buying 50 year old silver age books too often...although the 10 year old is pizzed i have listed DP 100 for sale. OTOH, I have it so expensive i doubt it will sell.

 

I see on the 99 cent Doom Patrol 103 the seller is insisting on a 15 cent surcharge to bag and board the book, otherwise i guess it is just taped up inside some cardboard willy nilly? That's a good way to get people not to bid on your stuff.

 

I remember the SA getting a kick from the 80s series. Also I think the death of the Doom Patrol was at one point worth more than their first appearance

 

Personally, my kids love TTGO, I love TTGO and it has made me like the real TT more

 

BTW which one is yours?

eBay DP 100s

 

[the blob]

the overpriced one is mine. i don't actually want to sell it for anywhere close to what it's "worth" right now. I am fond of that little green guy. But if someone pays what I am asking or close to I will let him go. Unlikely given there are a badjillion other copies for sale.