The Finals: Dark Knight #1-4 vs Watchmen #1-12

[COI]

Before I announce the winner, I would like to say thanks to everyone who enjoyed the contest. It has been a wild ride, and I hope you guys had fun. Now on to the good stuff:

 

The winner and grand champion, beating out 80+ other contestants:

 

Dark Knight #1-4

22 votes 67%

 

Watchmen #1-12

11 votes 33%

 

Its now over...

[goldust40]

Damn Miller shills.

 

C'mon, Goldy! Get your dolls. We're outta here.

 

Yeah, leave the heathens to their upstart false Gods - we'll set up our own contest where the winner is guaranteed from the outset.

 

It'll be totally different to this one.

 

Are you implying something Captain red pants?

 

Nah, this contest was largely above board, and great fun - maybe the result will silence the complainers. Dark Knight won, comfortably I might add, and the votes were tallied personally.

 

I'm not bitter about the outcome, of course.

[FFB]

Before I announce the winner, I would like to say thanks to everyone who enjoyed the contest. It has been a wild ride, and I hope you guys had fun. Now on to the good stuff:

 

The winner and grand champion, beating out 80+ other contestants:

 

Dark Knight #1-4

22 votes 67%

 

Watchmen #1-12

11 votes 33%

 

Its now over...

 

 

[burntboy]

DKR -

[chrisco37]

 

 

 

I foresee many more drunken wake-up calls in Scotty's future......

 

Seriously though, great contest and lots of fun.

 

Great to talk about books content instead of value/condition/etc....

 

Kudos to Alex for putting up with us!

[jbud73]

Still remember staring at this cover in Awe when I was a kid.

 

[bobpfef]

Bah, Moore is still better then Miller

[jordanscott]

Pah...

 

Who Watches the

?

[jbud73]

Bah, Moore is still better then Miller

 

In what capacity, I'm a huge Moore fan, but he writes - Miller writes and draws as well. Secondly, Moore may indeed be better than Miller, but that does not necessarily mean that Watchmen is better than DKR.

 

Andrew the covers to DKR got me in the end.....

[goldust40]

Bah, Moore is still better then Miller

 

In what capacity, I'm a huge Moore fan, but he writes - Miller writes and draws as well. Secondly, Moore may indeed be better than Miller, but that does not necessarily mean that Watchmen is better than DKR.

 

Andrew the covers to DKR got me in the end.....

 

You're forgiven, JBud!! Both DKR and Watchmen are personal favorites, so I'm not too bothered.

 

And yes, the Upstart can draw as well as write - the same cannot be said about Moore. How many here have read or even heard of Maxwell The Magic Cat??

[Wally's Comics]

Bah, Moore is still better then Miller

 

 

Ahhhhh the shillers emerge!

[FFB]

Bah, Moore is still better then Miller

 

In what capacity, I'm a huge Moore fan, but he writes - Miller writes and draws as well. Secondly, Moore may indeed be better than Miller, but that does not necessarily mean that Watchmen is better than DKR.

 

Andrew the covers to DKR got me in the end.....

 

You're forgiven, JBud!! Both DKR and Watchmen are personal favorites, so I'm not too bothered.

 

And yes, the Upstart can draw as well as write - the same cannot be said about Moore. How many here have read or even heard of Maxwell The Magic Cat??

 

True or false -- Miller achieved heights of popularity far in excess of anything that Moore ever achieved and he did it before anyone knew who Moore was. Miller took a title that was about to be canceled and was being published on a semi-monthly basis and in less than two years, turned it into a monthly title that was selling more copies than almost anything else Marvel was putting out. On what title did Moore accomplish anything similar?

 

So what's with this "Upstart" business?

[supapimp]

i was in awe of that cover too!

[goldust40]

True or false -- Miller achieved heights of popularity far in excess of anything that Moore ever achieved

 

That's highly debatable - Miller started off with mainstream super-hero titles that had an in-built audience, but even so, Killing Joke is just as popular a book as anything Miller did - DC reprinted it how many times??

 

 

and he did it before anyone knew who Moore was.

 

Moore had already proven his genius over in England with Miracleman. Miller was at Marvel three years earlier than Moore. This is simply about exposure. And hype.

 

Miller took a title that was about to be canceled and was being published on a semi-monthly basis and in less than two years, turned it into a monthly title that was selling more copies than almost anything else Marvel was putting out.

 

That's 'cause Marvel were no longer "The House Of Ideas" that they had been - most if not all of their output was bland, generic and safe, with tepid art. They gave a fledgling artist a failing title, and all he had to do was apply some sort of innovation, and hey presto, HE'S A GENIUS!!!!

 

Why didn't they refer to Walt Simonson as a genius after his Manhunter series in Detective 437 -443? That was every bit as innovative as Miller.

 

On what title did Moore accomplish anything similar?

 

Swamp Thing. Saved a lifeless title, and reinvented a genre. He made, as has been stated before, the role of the writer as significant as that of the artist.

 

So what's with this "Upstart" business?

 

That's a little ironic in-joke between me and Chrisco. Miller is not an Upstart, he's a creative genius who cares about the medium and its' history perhaps more than anyone. He is venerated and distinguished in his field beyond measure. I thought it would be amusing and completely hilarious to call him that.

 

Obviously you knew this anyway?

[supapimp]

True or false -- Miller achieved heights of popularity far in excess of anything that Moore ever achieved

 

That's highly debatable - Miller started off with mainstream super-hero titles that had an in-built audience, but even so, Killing Joke is just as popular a book as anything Miller did - DC reprinted it how many times??

 

yeah but compare that to how many times DRK or Frank Miller's Batman been reprinted? don't forget to count the anniversay DKR HC too.

[goldust40]

True or false -- Miller achieved heights of popularity far in excess of anything that Moore ever achieved

 

That's highly debatable - Miller started off with mainstream super-hero titles that had an in-built audience, but even so, Killing Joke is just as popular a book as anything Miller did - DC reprinted it how many times??

 

yeah but compare that to how many times DRK or Frank Miller's Batman been reprinted? don't forget to count the anniversay DKR HC too.

 

Killing Joke has been reprinted by DC at least ten times, and that's not counting the Titan editions. Not too shabby.

[jbud73]

I agree with Andrew on the Swamp Thing point, to further expand I think we can safely say that the whole Vertigo line and the return of Horror comics to the main stream - though Moore referred to them as Suspense can be traced to that run on SOTST. Further, I feel that the "Anatomy Lesson" is the best single issue to come out during the entire decade of the 1980s and might just be one of the top 5 stories ever rendered in a single comic book.

[PedigreeMan]

True or false -- Miller achieved heights of popularity far in excess of anything that Moore ever achieved

 

That's highly debatable - Miller started off with mainstream super-hero titles that had an in-built audience, but even so, Killing Joke is just as popular a book as anything Miller did - DC reprinted it how many times??

 

yeah but compare that to how many times DRK or Frank Miller's Batman been reprinted? don't forget to count the anniversay DKR HC too.

 

Killing Joke has been reprinted by DC at least ten times, and that's not counting the Titan editions. Not too shabby.

 

And the Watchmen TPB still sells thousands of copies annually, almost twenty years after its initial release. If Moore and DC weren't at such odds with one another, you'd probably see a number of different editions of Watchmen released, also. Didn't DC have a whole bunch of great things planned for its 15th anniversary before Moore put the kibosh on it?

 

As for Miller ...? I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Robocop 2. Moore never wrote anything approaching the level of crapiness which that abortion achieved.

 

In the end, I seriously have to wonder how many people here really got what both Watchmen and DKR were trying to accomplish. From most of the discussions, it sounds like the level of insight doesn't go much deeper than "Watchmen had too many words" and "Batman got to beat the crud out of Superman." And here I thought we were supposed to be a smarter user group than the rest.

 

(And for the record, I thought V for Vendetta was a much better story than either of these. Not a better comic book, but a better story, by far.)

 

Alan

[goldust40]

True or false -- Miller achieved heights of popularity far in excess of anything that Moore ever achieved

 

That's highly debatable - Miller started off with mainstream super-hero titles that had an in-built audience, but even so, Killing Joke is just as popular a book as anything Miller did - DC reprinted it how many times??

 

yeah but compare that to how many times DRK or Frank Miller's Batman been reprinted? don't forget to count the anniversay DKR HC too.

 

Killing Joke has been reprinted by DC at least ten times, and that's not counting the Titan editions. Not too shabby.

 

And the Watchmen TPB still sells thousands of copies annually, almost twenty years after its initial release. If Moore and DC weren't at such odds with one another, you'd probably see a number of different editions of Watchmen released, also. Didn't DC have a whole bunch of great things planned for its 15th anniversary before Moore put the kibosh on it?

 

As for Miller ...? I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Robocop 2. Moore never wrote anything approaching the level of crapiness which that abortion achieved.

 

In the end, I seriously have to wonder how many people here really got what both Watchmen and DKR were trying to accomplish. From most of the discussions, it sounds like the level of insight doesn't go much deeper than "Watchmen had too many words" and "Batman got to beat the crud out of Superman." And here I thought we were supposed to be a smarter user group than the rest.

 

(And for the record, I thought V for Vendetta was a much better story than either of these. Not a better comic book, but a better story, by far.)

 

Alan

 

Yep, I left V for Vendetta out of the argument, and you're 100% correct. That book should be read by everyone, dammit.

 

I also neglected to mention the amount of sales of Watchmen TPBs. I'd like to know which TPB has sold more, that or DKR?

[PedigreeMan]

I also neglected to mention the amount of sales of Watchmen TPBs. I'd like to know which TPB has sold more, that or DKR?

 

Anyone here have access to Bookscan numbers?