Infinite Bronze War Thread 11 11

[Jeffro.]

Hopefully OOAW 168 will catch up eventually. I recently picked up a sweet copy of that issue.

[bigfiver69]

Hopefully OOAW 168 will catch up eventually. I recently picked up a sweet copy of that issue.

 

 

And high grade OAAW #168s are notoriously hard to find, much harder than SSWS #151.

 

Shep

[bronze johnny]

If you look around, there are many sellers of this book (OAAW 168) who don't really know its significance.

 

I've got to believe that many people still think that SSWS 151 is the 1st App, of the Unknown Soldier. It's interesting since this character has been around for more than 40 years and is one of the most significant war characters ever to come out of comics.

 

bronzejohnny

[Weird]

If you look around, there are many sellers of this book (OAAW 168) who don't really know its significance.

 

I've got to believe that many people still think that SSWS 151 is the 1st App, of the Unknown Soldier. It's interesting since this character has been around for more than 40 years and is one of the most significant war characters ever to come out of comics.

 

bronzejohnny

 

If you read OAAW #168, I'll think you'll see that the soldier in the story (which is much different than SSWS #154 - the origin issue of the Unknown Soldier) is not the soldier who becomes the Unknown Soldier in the SSWS run. OAAW #168 was 4 years before SSWS #151 and the soldier is killed in the story. I think this story was meant as a standalone.

 

Maybe later it was retconned (haven't read every meeting between Rock and US) by an editor or something, but I do not think the person in OAAW #168 is the US of the DC universe nor is he even a protoype of him. I would say SSWS #151 is definitely the first appearance of DC's Unknown Soldier.

[bronze johnny]

Weird:

 

See SSWS #157 and you will see the reference it makes to OAAW 168- the pivatol connection and thus the reason why OAAW 168 is the first appearance of the Unknown Soldier.

 

There is no doubt that OAAW 168 is the 1st app. of the Unknown Soldier. It took some time for the people at Overstreet to realize this.

 

Your opinion is interesting nevertheless.

 

bronzejohnny

[Weird]

Weird:

 

See SSWS #157 and you will see the reference it makes to OAAW 168- the pivatol connection and thus the reason why OAAW 168 is the first appearance of the Unknown Soldier.

 

There is no doubt that OAAW 168 is the 1st app. of the Unknown Soldier. It took some time for the people at Overstreet to realize this.

 

Your opinion is interesting nevertheless.

 

bronzejohnny

 

Just re-read OAAW 168 and SSWS 154 and 157. They sure did retcon it. Basically five years after the OAAW story they incorporated it into 157. Pretty much reprinting the OAAW story page for page (easy issue to put out!). They even include the shot of them carrying away the soldier's corpse.

 

I see your point and even go as far as to say you are right. But really for my money 151 is still the book to have over 168. I think they just took the easy route for an issue. But I don't deny that it is what it is at this point.

 

edited - got the years wrong

Edited March 28, 2007 by Weird

[bronze johnny]

I can see your point on SSWS 151. I remember getting this book thinking that it was the the Soldier's 1st app. only to be disappointed later on after looking in the OSPG and discovering that it wasn't- and this was corrected by Overstreet earlier this decade. But OAAW 168 is the 1st app. of the Unknown Soldier and will surpass SSWS 151 in historical and monetary significance.

 

Currently, OAAW 168 is one of the rarest Silver Age books to get in high grade if the CGC census is any indication of rarity.

 

There are only 4 books graded at 9.0 or above!

 

(Perhaps we might later find out that OAAW 168 is not the 1st app. of this awesome character- leading us to believe that the Soldier's 1st app. is unknown, a result that would only be appropriate for this "hero in bandages!")

 

bronzejohnny

[Weird]

Yep, I agree with you, it is. I just don't think it was meant to be. But that is neither here nor there when it comes down to it.

 

 

You just got the top copy, right? Our Army At War #168 CGC 9.6 1st App Unknown Soldier

 

 

[HouseofComics.Com]

Super!

[Jeffro.]

Yep, I agree with you, it is. I just don't think it was meant to be. But that is neither here nor there when it comes down to it.

 

 

You just got the top copy, right? Our Army At War #168 CGC 9.6 1st App Unknown Soldier

 

 

 

Wow, that copy was being sold about 15 minutes away from me. Wish I could have bid.

Still happy with my copy though.

[Jeffro.]

If you read OAAW #168, I'll think you'll see that the soldier in the story (which is much different than SSWS #154 - the origin issue of the Unknown Soldier) is not the soldier who becomes the Unknown Soldier in the SSWS run. OAAW #168 was 4 years before SSWS #151 and the soldier is killed in the story. I think this story was meant as a standalone.

 

I think when it was originally written, yes it was meant to be a stand alone. It certainly reads that way to me. The "unknown soldier" in that story bears no resemblance to the Unknown Solider starting in SSWS 151.

 

Maybe later it was retconned (haven't read every meeting between Rock and US) by an editor or something, but I do not think the person in OAAW #168 is the US of the DC universe nor is he even a protoype of him. I would say SSWS #151 is definitely the first appearance of DC's Unknown Soldier.

 

 

I believe this would be true if the retcon had never happened. If SSWS 157 had not established the link, then I think we might be talking about 168 as an Unknown Soldier prototype issue, but maybe not.

[bronze johnny]

Weird:

 

- I did not expect to get it at that price. Thought it would go for more. I've spent 6 years looking for this book in 9.2 or higher and came up with nothing! Searching for this book was the most challenging one I've ever experienced.

 

- Jeffro, that's a fabulous copy! Get it slabbed.

 

bronzejohnny

[Zonker]

I can see your point on SSWS 151. I remember getting this book thinking that it was the the Soldier's 1st app. only to be disappointed later on after looking in the OSPG and discovering that it wasn't- and this was corrected by Overstreet earlier this decade. But OAAW 168 is the 1st app. of the Unknown Soldier and will surpass SSWS 151 in historical and monetary significance.

 

Currently, OAAW 168 is one of the rarest Silver Age books to get in high grade if the CGC census is any indication of rarity.

 

There are only 4 books graded at 9.0 or above!

 

(Perhaps we might later find out that OAAW 168 is not the 1st app. of this awesome character- leading us to believe that the Soldier's 1st app. is unknown, a result that would only be appropriate for this "hero in bandages!")

 

bronzejohnny

 

I have to disagree with this perspective, Johnny. SSWS was intended to be the launch of a new series... and it was conceived to be the first appearance of the character. Just because someone under deadline pressure subsequently dug out an old prototype story and wove it into continuity doesn't invalidate the importance of SSWS 151.

 

If someone tomorrow wrote a story that revealed that Siegel & Shuster's super-powered Dr. Occult from 1936 was really a pre-costumed Superman with amnesia, would that stop Action #1 from being the first Superman appearance?

[Jeffro.]

Regardless of what we believe, the industry will determine which book is the real first appearance, be it OAAW 168 or SSWS 151. Right now, it says OAAW 168.

 

Of course, once upon a time, GI Combat 68 was considered the first appearance of Sgt Rock, so who knows what time will tell.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Don't get us started on Sgt. Rock! Or Easy Company. Or Sgt. Rocky.

[bigfiver69]

Regardless of what we believe, the industry will determine which book is the real first appearance, be it OAAW 168 or SSWS 151. Right now, it says OAAW 168.

 

Of course, once upon a time, GI Combat 68 was considered the first appearance of Sgt Rock, so who knows what time will tell.

 

Yeah, I try not to get caught up in the 'First appearance of Tank Killer' or 'Enemy Ace prototype business.' I have a lot of the so-called 'key' war issues and in truth, I find a lot of the ongoing characters' first stories are sort of weak... they tended to need a few issues to 'marinate' and get better.

 

All the same, that 9.6 of OAAW #168 was a STUNNING book... nice grab, bronzejohnny!!!

 

Interestingly, one of the few OAAW Sgt. Rock books that I don't have. Anyone got a nice VF they want to part with?

 

Shep

[bronze johnny]

Zonker:

 

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

 

I'm not invalidating the significance of SSWS 151- Since when is the first "solo" appearance of a character (as indicated in the OSPG) insignificant?

 

The issue here is clear:

 

Which of these two books is the 1st app. of the Unknown Soldier?. We may never really know what the intentions were since there is no written history describing the intent of the people at DC at that particular time. Perhaps Kubert might have something to say about this? Nevertheless, the result of OAAW 168 is the 1st app. of a character called the Unknown Soldier. We may never really know whether the Unknown Soldier in OAAW 168 was really different from the Soldier in SSWS 151- particularly when there is no alter-ego/secret identity that would enable us to further define and distinguish these two Soldiers.

 

Do you have any evidence to support your contention that it was meeting a deadline that resulted in the reference back to OAAW 168?

 

 

SSWS 151 will always be a significant book in the history of the Unknown Soldier and comics. I'll go on record and say that it is the most significant Bronze Age War Book ever! That in itself is enough to qualify it as one of the Great ones!

 

bronzejohnny

Edited March 28, 2007 by bronzejohnny

[thirdgreenham]

I was watching that CGC 9.6 with great interest. Not a big enough player to drop that kind of dough on that book, though. Great comic, nonetheless!!!

 

It sure is the first appearance of a DC character named "Unknown Soldier", I don't think that can be denied.

 

Andy

[Zonker]

Do you have any evidence to support your contention that it was meeting a deadline that resulted in the reference back to OAAW 168?

 

No evidence, Johnny. Just that when I read this from the Slings & Arrows Guide (p. 615 in the 2nd edition) it sure rang true. After all, Kubert did something similar in one of the later Enemy Ace issues of Star-Spangled (#146): reprints of old war stories, newly "introduced" by Von Hammer.

 

Plagued by reprint stories introduced by Unknown and retroactively claimed to be previous missions (153,157,162), the feature's early episodes were a treat, and Kubert, joined by writer Bob Haney from 158, was on top form...

 

I'd be more convinced the OAAW 168 story was intentionally the same Unknown Soldier if he were shown having a bandaged face, or following his usual MO of impersonating someone else. Instead (at least in the reprinted version, please correct me if I am misrepresenting the original OAAW story), the character is an almost ghostly apparition, dressed in standard-issue combat fatigues.

 

And the name "Unknown Soldier" itself is quite generic. The tomb in Arlington cemetery has been there since shortly after World War I.

[bronze johnny]

Zonker:

 

- If this character were known as AN Unknown Soldier, then sure, its generic.

But the character described in OAAW 168 is referred to as THE Unknown Soldier (The one and only). Look at the caption on the cover:

 

"I knew THE Unknown Soldier" not AN Unknown Soldier.

 

- And just because the character is dressed differently and later follows a different modus operandi does not change the "concept" of the Unknown Soldier as a comic book character. And yes the concept, while in its "infancy," is clear enough to have a title (as Kubert and company aptly provided in OAAW #168).

 

bronzejohnny