Definitive Key Comic List

[Lazyboy]

Okay kav, please tell me which of the following are keys:

 

Amazing Spider-Man 430

Amazing Spider-Man 431

Avengers 316

Batman: Sword of Azrael 1

Uncanny X-Men 130

Black Canary/Oracle: Birds of Prey 1

Amazing Spider-Man Annual 21

New Mutants 9

Batman Adventures: Mad Love

New Mutants 1

Batman: Vengeance of Bane Special 1

Incredible Hulk 340

G.I. Joe Special 1

Strange Adventures 180

Batman: Harley Quinn

Action Comics 598

Silver Sable and the Wild Pack 23

Showcase '96 3

New Mutants 21

 

[kav]

All of the ones that are worth significantly more than the previous and/or next issues.

[Lazyboy]

180/181 is an anomaly that has been discussed a lot. 181 is considered the key book because the market has determined that it is a key book. Therefore it is a key book-worth significantly more than the previous or following issues. Web of spiderman 18 is not a key, and not worth very much. I stick by my definition.

 

So 180 is not a key?

It's a minor key I guess. 181 is worth 'significantly more', and is a 'key'.

Remember my definition said 'and/or' ... because there are books that are 2 key issues in a row.

 

Ah, I see. I misread it originally as an AND.

 

Hard to really argue with it being so minimally constrained. You're stating that the market will value a key more than the previous or next issue - basically, it's a type of economic 'perfect information' statement.

Key books are desired. That makes people willing to spend money on them. First appearance of Speedball is not a key book. Sure it's a first appearance, but no one cares about him. Therefore it is not a key book.

If they made a Speedball movie and he became popular, then it would become a 'key book'.

First appearance of Gamera was not a key book until the Gotg movie. She wasn't important until then.

 

 

What about FF 67? Not important until Starlin (if at all), or contextually important because of the Lee & Kirby run? Or only now in a quasi-superstate of important/unimportant because of rumors and a cocoon briefly displayed in a movie? I'm so confused.

Not a key-because it is not worth 'significantly more' than 66 or 68. Desired book yes, key no.

 

 

In CGC 9.4, GPA 12 month average

 

FF 66 - $777

FF 67 - $1,757

FF 68 - $169

In that case it is definitely a key book. I wasn't aware of those numbers.

 

But WoSM 18 sells for 10x as much as WoSM 17, how is it not a key but FF 67 is a key?

[grayzr]

All of the ones that are worth significantly more than the previous and/or next issues.

 

Gotta love that paper right? dollar dollar bill yall

[kav]

You can pick apart any definition of anything. There are mammals that lay eggs. There are hairless mammals. There are mammals without teats.

That does not mean you should not define anything.

I think my definition is fairly solid.

Hell try to define what a 'sandwich' is and I will blast any definition you come up with across the room.

[kav]

180/181 is an anomaly that has been discussed a lot. 181 is considered the key book because the market has determined that it is a key book. Therefore it is a key book-worth significantly more than the previous or following issues. Web of spiderman 18 is not a key, and not worth very much. I stick by my definition.

 

So 180 is not a key?

It's a minor key I guess. 181 is worth 'significantly more', and is a 'key'.

Remember my definition said 'and/or' ... because there are books that are 2 key issues in a row.

 

Ah, I see. I misread it originally as an AND.

 

Hard to really argue with it being so minimally constrained. You're stating that the market will value a key more than the previous or next issue - basically, it's a type of economic 'perfect information' statement.

Key books are desired. That makes people willing to spend money on them. First appearance of Speedball is not a key book. Sure it's a first appearance, but no one cares about him. Therefore it is not a key book.

If they made a Speedball movie and he became popular, then it would become a 'key book'.

First appearance of Gamera was not a key book until the Gotg movie. She wasn't important until then.

 

 

What about FF 67? Not important until Starlin (if at all), or contextually important because of the Lee & Kirby run? Or only now in a quasi-superstate of important/unimportant because of rumors and a cocoon briefly displayed in a movie? I'm so confused.

Not a key-because it is not worth 'significantly more' than 66 or 68. Desired book yes, key no.

 

 

In CGC 9.4, GPA 12 month average

 

FF 66 - $777

FF 67 - $1,757

FF 68 - $169

In that case it is definitely a key book. I wasn't aware of those numbers.

 

But WoSM 18 sells for 10x as much as WoSM 17, how is it not a key but FF 67 is a key?

Are you talking about some specific grade where that is true? I just ebayed and saw it wasn't particularly valuable. You can get it for $15 in high grade raw. Vs $3 for 17 and 19. I wouldn't call that 'significant'. If you're going to use specific grades for your examples that's another matter and is sorta data picking. Conversely, if one book sells for a dollar and another for $10, that might be 'ten times as much', but it is not 'significant'. Nine dollars is not significant.

[miraclemet]

But WoSM 18 sells for 10x as much as WoSM 17, how is it not a key but FF 67 is a key?

 

in CGC 9.8 (90 day )

 

17: $80 (1 copy)

18: $128 (5 copies)

19: $150 (1 copy)

 

 

In CGC 9.8 (12 mo )

 

17: $40 (5 copies)

18: $107 (9 copies)

19: $89 (2 copies)

 

So neither in the short term or long term is WoSM seeling for "10x as much" as 17, or 19 for that matter. It's selling for somewhere between 2.5 and 3x.

 

And I assume part of the 9.8 inflation for the 18 is due to the predominantly black cover, making 9.8s a bit harder to come up with.

[kav]

Not a key.

[kav]

All of the ones that are worth significantly more than the previous and/or next issues.

 

Gotta love that paper right? dollar dollar bill yall

It's an accurate tool for measuring value to some degree. Which is what a 'key' book is-a valued book.

[miraclemet]

simple way to solve this...

 

go to ebay/comics

 

put in the search word "key"

 

all of those books are key.

 

right?

 

 

[kav]

[Mad_Bob]

I generally identify keys as 1st appearances (in whatever form), origin stories, and key story lines, doesn't matter what they are worth.

 

Does the monetary value determine if a comic is key?, I don't personally believe so. By that logic, Batman Adventures 12 wasn't a key until Harley Quinn's popularity increased and drove up the price. I am sure there were a small number of Harley Quinn fans that believed this was a key issue when it had little to no monetary value.

 

I personally believe a key is determined by its value to the collectors of those specific characters/comics. I have seen issues which I would believe are key to characters I am interested in, but would have little to no value, i.e the first appearance of Rose Wilson, its a key to me, nobody else cares about it, good for me, as it is literally a $ bin issue, just as Batman adventures 12 once was.

[SquareChaos]

The point is, Kav is right - you can pick at the edges of most definitions. However, his definition isn't truly powerful as it doesn't have any predictive power, and that is what people seem to be seeking.

 

Tell me a book is going to be a key because it meets certain criteria, not because it is already identified (and priced) as one. People want a theory of comic book key status.

[F For Fake]

As the thread demonstrates, you'll never get a definitive list of keys, because you'll never get everyone to agree on what a "key" really is. Better to ask for a list of all 1st appearances, if that's what you're after, though that would get pretty unwieldy pretty quick.

 

 

[grayzr]

All of the ones that are worth significantly more than the previous and/or next issues.

 

Gotta love that paper right? dollar dollar bill yall

It's an accurate tool for measuring value to some degree. Which is what a 'key' book is-a valued book.

 

It doesn't have to be more valuable to be a key issue i.e something significant in the story that would make it stand out from other books as more important. The batman adventures 12 is a perfect example of this, yes today it is worth more because of current interest in Harley Quinn as a character but BA 12 has always been the first Harley and even when it was worth 2$ doesn't change that fact. It was the same value as every BA before it and after it and just because its valuable now doesn't change the fact that it was a key before the increase in price and desirability. The point is that books don't become key issues they are or there not further enforcing that money has nothing to do with what a key really is. How important or valuable a key book is was not the intention of this thread.

 

 

[kav]

First book to intro a new character or organization no matter how minor is then a key. Because one day they might be a 'somebody'.

First Woodgod: key

First Jim Gordon's brother: key

First aunt may's sister: key

First News vendor guy in some random book: key.

First Super Club in Lois Lane comic: key

[Lazyboy]

But WoSM 18 sells for 10x as much as WoSM 17, how is it not a key but FF 67 is a key?

 

in CGC 9.8 (90 day )

 

17: $80 (1 copy)

18: $128 (5 copies)

19: $150 (1 copy)

 

 

In CGC 9.8 (12 mo )

 

17: $40 (5 copies)

18: $107 (9 copies)

19: $89 (2 copies)

 

So neither in the short term or long term is WoSM seeling for "10x as much" as 17, or 19 for that matter. It's selling for somewhere between 2.5 and 3x.

 

And I assume part of the 9.8 inflation for the 18 is due to the predominantly black cover, making 9.8s a bit harder to come up with.

 

Why the would I care what a CGC 9.8 sells for? Especially when the census is so incredibly skewed?

 

 

Thanks, Greg!

 

 

[Lazyboy]

Are you talking about some specific grade where that is true? I just ebayed and saw it wasn't particularly valuable. You can get it for $15 in high grade raw. Vs $3 for 17 and 19. I wouldn't call that 'significant'. If you're going to use specific grades for your examples that's another matter and is sorta data picking. Conversely, if one book sells for a dollar and another for $10, that might be 'ten times as much', but it is not 'significant'. Nine dollars is not significant.

 

Percentages matter much more than absolute dollars in a comparison like this. Otherwise, I'm going with only Action 1 and 'Tec 27 are keys because nothing else comes close to the dollar difference between those two issues and their surrounding issues.

[kav]

Are you talking about some specific grade where that is true? I just ebayed and saw it wasn't particularly valuable. You can get it for $15 in high grade raw. Vs $3 for 17 and 19. I wouldn't call that 'significant'. If you're going to use specific grades for your examples that's another matter and is sorta data picking. Conversely, if one book sells for a dollar and another for $10, that might be 'ten times as much', but it is not 'significant'. Nine dollars is not significant.

 

Percentages matter much more than absolute dollars in a comparison like this. Otherwise, I'm going with only Action 1 and 'Tec 27 are keys because nothing else comes close to the dollar difference between those two issues and their surrounding issues.

So a book that is 1000% higher than the previous issue at a whopping $10 where previous issue sells for $1 is a 'key'?

That seems weird.

[kav]

The way some are defining key, Youngblood #1 is a key issue. In fact most every book is a key issue because they all have a first something. Because they are not just the same story being reprinted over and over. There is just no way Youngblood #1 is a key issue.