Delays killing creator owned enthusiasm?

[ParamagicFF]

Does anyone else feel like delays are becoming more and more common in the creator owned world? Not so much the planned hiatus between arcs, but prolonged and repeated delays between issues, usually still followed by irregular delays between arcs. What makes it worse is when there is no public remarks from the creators letting the readers know what to expect.

 

I prefer to wait rather than to have fill in creators, but with some of the most interesting books becoming delayed or falling into "unannounced hiatus", it almost feels like a gamble buying a new book.

 

I know creators have to make money, so many of them take on side jobs and then backseat their creator owned books, but how can they think this helps their career?

 

Anyone else losing interest in some of their favorite titles?

 

 

Copperhead and East of West come to mind, although EoW has improved GREATLY in recent months.

 

[fastballspecial]

I have a list of writers I wont buy from anymore because of this.

 

[Kyle R.]

Is this because of the BleedingCool article.........?

[ParamagicFF]

Is this because of the BleedingCool article.........?

 

Have to say I'm not sure I'm aware of this article. Link?

 

Regardless, this thread is from my own thoughts while considering buying new ongoings as some on my list are coming to an end.

[Kyle R.]

Is this because of the BleedingCool article.........?

 

Have to say I'm not sure I'm aware of this article. Link?

 

Regardless, this thread is from my own thoughts while considering buying new ongoings as some on my list are coming to an end.

 

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/28/a-tale-of-two-exclusive-contracts-marvel-and-dc-comics/

[Chaseman210]

This reminds me of the time I LOVED Nowhere Men

[kimik]

Delays are part of it, but a lot of bad concepts is another one that is more impactful. There are way too many bad creator owned books out there.

[SquareChaos]

This question crops up pretty often.

 

The answer is... many do care, and some few always show up to say they don't care. The ones that don't care will explain how they waited X years for one guy to finish whatever, and Y years for something else and they wouldn't have it any other way. The ones that do care will say they won't read so-and-so anymore, or just that they don't like it... but most continue to buy if the book is actually any good... and lets face it, those good ones are the ones we're talking about here, because otherwise, who would care?

 

My personal opinion is that it is unprofessional unless it's an actual indie title. If you're a full time comic creator with multiple books coming out from Image / DC / Marvel, playing the indie card doesn't really fly with me. If it's a labor of love on a unique imprint, or a book the creator(s) do in between the real job that pays their bills, I'm completely fine with it. And just to be clear... the "real job" can't be the books that Marvel and DC pay you big bucks to put out.

 

Having said that, I think I've personally been pretty easy going with my internet rage when real life has reared it's ugly head for some creators. Nowhere Men was already mentioned, so I'll bring that up... I felt bad for Nate, I gave him a free pass, but I know many refuse to... Of course, then the cynic in me wonders if people would have come down so hard on those guys if it Stephenson wasn't the writer? :shrug:

 

I guess to make a long story short / TL;DR..... context matters.

[John R]

I have a list of writers I wont buy from anymore because of this.

 

+1

[krighton]

[the authority]

Does anyone else feel like delays are becoming more and more common in the creator owned world? Not so much the planned hiatus between arcs, but prolonged and repeated delays between issues, usually still followed by irregular delays between arcs. What makes it worse is when there is no public remarks from the creators letting the readers know what to expect.

 

I prefer to wait rather than to have fill in creators, but with some of the most interesting books becoming delayed or falling into "unannounced hiatus", it almost feels like a gamble buying a new book.

 

I know creators have to make money, so many of them take on side jobs and then backseat their creator owned books, but how can they think this helps their career?

 

Anyone else losing interest in some of their favorite titles?

 

 

Copperhead and East of West come to mind, although EoW has improved GREATLY in recent months.

 

East of West, Nailbiter, Black Science, The Walking Dead, Southern Bastards (barely), and Saga, among others, all come out on a regular enough basis that I keep enjoying them. East of West is the best original series I've read since the '90s other than maybe Planetary. Its epic so I have patience like I did with Planetary. Others are very good but if they take too long, TPB a year or two later is fine by me.

[the authority]

This question crops up pretty often.

 

The answer is... many do care, and some few always show up to say they don't care. The ones that don't care will explain how they waited X years for one guy to finish whatever, and Y years for something else and they wouldn't have it any other way. The ones that do care will say they won't read so-and-so anymore, or just that they don't like it... but most continue to buy if the book is actually any good... and lets face it, those good ones are the ones we're talking about here, because otherwise, who would care?

 

My personal opinion is that it is unprofessional unless it's an actual indie title. If you're a full time comic creator with multiple books coming out from Image / DC / Marvel, playing the indie card doesn't really fly with me. If it's a labor of love on a unique imprint, or a book the creator(s) do in between the real job that pays their bills, I'm completely fine with it. And just to be clear... the "real job" can't be the books that Marvel and DC pay you big bucks to put out.

 

Having said that, I think I've personally been pretty easy going with my internet rage when real life has reared it's ugly head for some creators. Nowhere Men was already mentioned, so I'll bring that up... I felt bad for Nate, I gave him a free pass, but I know many refuse to... Of course, then the cynic in me wonders if people would have come down so hard on those guys if it Stephenson wasn't the writer? :shrug:

 

I guess to make a long story short / TL;DR..... context matters.

 

 

Mostly +1.

 

It still feels like the editor at Image went out of his way to blow up his own company with people who both read and then sell comics on ebay and elsewhere. Image's sales are low, both as a percentage and in real dollars when compared to recent years. Where else would one lay blame to the result ? If they were up, who would get the credit ? Still, in spite of internal hindrances, Image puts out the most unique and interesting stories available. Aftershock seems to be stepping into the void left by some Image vacancies. Its nice to see a small company producing notable books like Black Eyed Kids. The guys at 215Ink with Enormous, and a few other small companies are stepping up their game too. More power to them.

[followtheleader]

It's definitely a problem.

If the creators are clear, then people deal with it better. Likely problem is that creators have little idea themselves.

 

Copperhead was great. Super disappointing to see it being so up-in-the-air.

Frankly, a bunch of Image books are/were bad about this and I think it hurt the books.

 

Manifest Destiny is a good example. Dead and Dying is ridiculous. Drifter seemed to drift away, but has been back pretty strong. A really good book that people should be reading.

 

One of my all-time favorites is Sixth Gun and it definitely was affected. Fantastic book, but the last few have been really marginal. Obviously the Marvel books for Bunn were more important.

 

On the flip side, people have a 2 second attention spans. It's really pathetic. So much that it validates doing New 52 and Rebirth and Marvel Now and Marvel Now Now? With these creator-owned books (beyond Kirkman), they are lucky if people are paying attention beyond issue #5.

 

Patrick

[Prince Namor]

This question crops up pretty often.

 

The answer is... many do care, and some few always show up to say they don't care. The ones that don't care will explain how they waited X years for one guy to finish whatever, and Y years for something else and they wouldn't have it any other way. The ones that do care will say they won't read so-and-so anymore, or just that they don't like it... but most continue to buy if the book is actually any good... and lets face it, those good ones are the ones we're talking about here, because otherwise, who would care?

 

My personal opinion is that it is unprofessional unless it's an actual indie title. If you're a full time comic creator with multiple books coming out from Image / DC / Marvel, playing the indie card doesn't really fly with me. If it's a labor of love on a unique imprint, or a book the creator(s) do in between the real job that pays their bills, I'm completely fine with it. And just to be clear... the "real job" can't be the books that Marvel and DC pay you big bucks to put out.

 

Having said that, I think I've personally been pretty easy going with my internet rage when real life has reared it's ugly head for some creators. Nowhere Men was already mentioned, so I'll bring that up... I felt bad for Nate, I gave him a free pass, but I know many refuse to... Of course, then the cynic in me wonders if people would have come down so hard on those guys if it Stephenson wasn't the writer? :shrug:

 

I guess to make a long story short / TL;DR..... context matters.

 

 

Mostly +1.

 

It still feels like the editor at Image went out of his way to blow up his own company with people who both read and then sell comics on ebay and elsewhere. Image's sales are low, both as a percentage and in real dollars when compared to recent years. Where else would one lay blame to the result ? If they were up, who would get the credit ? Still, in spite of internal hindrances, Image puts out the most unique and interesting stories available. Aftershock seems to be stepping into the void left by some Image vacancies. Its nice to see a small company producing notable books like Black Eyed Kids. The guys at 215Ink with Enormous, and a few other small companies are stepping up their game too. More power to them.

 

Image's overall sales are just fine. For new floppies, their feeling a small dip, much the same way everyone has this year.

 

But, they just finished off their best year ever, and trade paperback sales are on pace to make them Diamond's book seller of the year yet again for 2016. That $9.99 price point for most 1st tpb's is a great idea, and has helped me sell new series consistently.

 

They haven't had a speculation hit in a while (people tried with Monstress, but those pesky 2nd print's just came out much too quickly), and that's by design, as readers are instead being directed either to those later prints or to the easily available and affordable trade paperback collections for titles they've heard a 'buzz' about.

 

Perception, because there wasn't the same kind of hype for every single new release, as their was a few years ago, may make it seem like they aren't doing as well... but I have new Image readers on a regular basis.... picking up the tpb's instead of the floppies, which is ok with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Warcrawl]

There is a constant delay on The Goddamned and Southern Bastards because of this very problem. But Jason Aaron is one of my favorite writers and I'll keep waiting...impatiently.

[the authority]

This question crops up pretty often.

 

The answer is... many do care, and some few always show up to say they don't care. The ones that don't care will explain how they waited X years for one guy to finish whatever, and Y years for something else and they wouldn't have it any other way. The ones that do care will say they won't read so-and-so anymore, or just that they don't like it... but most continue to buy if the book is actually any good... and lets face it, those good ones are the ones we're talking about here, because otherwise, who would care?

 

My personal opinion is that it is unprofessional unless it's an actual indie title. If you're a full time comic creator with multiple books coming out from Image / DC / Marvel, playing the indie card doesn't really fly with me. If it's a labor of love on a unique imprint, or a book the creator(s) do in between the real job that pays their bills, I'm completely fine with it. And just to be clear... the "real job" can't be the books that Marvel and DC pay you big bucks to put out.

 

Having said that, I think I've personally been pretty easy going with my internet rage when real life has reared it's ugly head for some creators. Nowhere Men was already mentioned, so I'll bring that up... I felt bad for Nate, I gave him a free pass, but I know many refuse to... Of course, then the cynic in me wonders if people would have come down so hard on those guys if it Stephenson wasn't the writer? :shrug:

 

I guess to make a long story short / TL;DR..... context matters.

 

 

Mostly +1.

 

It still feels like the editor at Image went out of his way to blow up his own company with people who both read and then sell comics on ebay and elsewhere. Image's sales are low, both as a percentage and in real dollars when compared to recent years. Where else would one lay blame to the result ? If they were up, who would get the credit ? Still, in spite of internal hindrances, Image puts out the most unique and interesting stories available. Aftershock seems to be stepping into the void left by some Image vacancies. Its nice to see a small company producing notable books like Black Eyed Kids. The guys at 215Ink with Enormous, and a few other small companies are stepping up their game too. More power to them.

 

Image's overall sales are just fine. For new floppies, their feeling a small dip, much the same way everyone has this year.

 

But, they just finished off their best year ever, and trade paperback sales are on pace to make them Diamond's book seller of the year yet again for 2016. That $9.99 price point for most 1st tpb's is a great idea, and has helped me sell new series consistently.

 

They haven't had a speculation hit in a while (people tried with Monstress, but those pesky 2nd print's just came out much too quickly), and that's by design, as readers are instead being directed either to those later prints or to the easily available and affordable trade paperback collections for titles they've heard a 'buzz' about.

 

Perception, because there wasn't the same kind of hype for every single new release, as their was a few years ago, may make it seem like they aren't doing as well... but I have new Image readers on a regular basis.... picking up the tpb's instead of the floppies, which is ok with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that Monstress is a good book. I don't know why 2nd prints would affect overall sales but maybe there's something to that. According to Comichron, the entire market in down year to date from this year to last year's numbers. Within those numbers, Image's unit sales are down from over 10% to under 8% of the market. Thats over a 25% drop. Total dollar share for the has fallen from around 8.9% to around 8.3%. That represents a 7% drop in a reduced market. So while last year may be there best year ever, they didn't make any change in sales until early summer. Its hard to ignore the overall result.

 

May 2016

 

I'm glad you're doing well and I root for Image, other smaller creators, and brick and mortar stores. If all comics were about capes, the market would shrink dramatically. At any rate, I still believe if Image the company were more pro reader, they'd be gaining market share. If there isn't a secondary market value, there really is no reason to buy hard copies over digital except for a very old school collectors.

[the authority]

Monstress 1 on ebay

 

This book is still bringing good money without any hype of late. Nice to see.

[Prince Namor]

This question crops up pretty often.

 

The answer is... many do care, and some few always show up to say they don't care. The ones that don't care will explain how they waited X years for one guy to finish whatever, and Y years for something else and they wouldn't have it any other way. The ones that do care will say they won't read so-and-so anymore, or just that they don't like it... but most continue to buy if the book is actually any good... and lets face it, those good ones are the ones we're talking about here, because otherwise, who would care?

 

My personal opinion is that it is unprofessional unless it's an actual indie title. If you're a full time comic creator with multiple books coming out from Image / DC / Marvel, playing the indie card doesn't really fly with me. If it's a labor of love on a unique imprint, or a book the creator(s) do in between the real job that pays their bills, I'm completely fine with it. And just to be clear... the "real job" can't be the books that Marvel and DC pay you big bucks to put out.

 

Having said that, I think I've personally been pretty easy going with my internet rage when real life has reared it's ugly head for some creators. Nowhere Men was already mentioned, so I'll bring that up... I felt bad for Nate, I gave him a free pass, but I know many refuse to... Of course, then the cynic in me wonders if people would have come down so hard on those guys if it Stephenson wasn't the writer? :shrug:

 

I guess to make a long story short / TL;DR..... context matters.

 

 

Mostly +1.

 

It still feels like the editor at Image went out of his way to blow up his own company with people who both read and then sell comics on ebay and elsewhere. Image's sales are low, both as a percentage and in real dollars when compared to recent years. Where else would one lay blame to the result ? If they were up, who would get the credit ? Still, in spite of internal hindrances, Image puts out the most unique and interesting stories available. Aftershock seems to be stepping into the void left by some Image vacancies. Its nice to see a small company producing notable books like Black Eyed Kids. The guys at 215Ink with Enormous, and a few other small companies are stepping up their game too. More power to them.

 

Image's overall sales are just fine. For new floppies, their feeling a small dip, much the same way everyone has this year.

 

But, they just finished off their best year ever, and trade paperback sales are on pace to make them Diamond's book seller of the year yet again for 2016. That $9.99 price point for most 1st tpb's is a great idea, and has helped me sell new series consistently.

 

They haven't had a speculation hit in a while (people tried with Monstress, but those pesky 2nd print's just came out much too quickly), and that's by design, as readers are instead being directed either to those later prints or to the easily available and affordable trade paperback collections for titles they've heard a 'buzz' about.

 

Perception, because there wasn't the same kind of hype for every single new release, as their was a few years ago, may make it seem like they aren't doing as well... but I have new Image readers on a regular basis.... picking up the tpb's instead of the floppies, which is ok with me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that Monstress is a good book. I don't know why 2nd prints would affect overall sales but maybe there's something to that. According to Comichron, the entire market in down year to date from this year to last year's numbers. Within those numbers, Image's unit sales are down from over 10% to under 8% of the market. Thats over a 25% drop. Total dollar share for the has fallen from around 8.9% to around 8.3%. That represents a 7% drop in a reduced market. So while last year may be there best year ever, they didn't make any change in sales until early summer. Its hard to ignore the overall result.

 

May 2016

 

Yep.

 

Which means, it's not really anything Image are necessarily doing, it's the market as a whole that is dropping a bit, and that drop is primarily in.... floppies.

 

I'm glad you're doing well and I root for Image, other smaller creators, and brick and mortar stores. If all comics were about capes, the market would shrink dramatically. At any rate, I still believe if Image the company were more pro reader, they'd be gaining market share. If there isn't a secondary market value, there really is no reason to buy hard copies over digital except for a very old school collectors.

 

 

But they are.

 

Ask most dealers if people are still buying Walking Dead and they'll say yes, we get new readers all the time.

But look at the numbers for floppies and... seems to have leveled off.

So where are those new readers?

Trade paperbacks and digital.

 

On a smaller scale that's happening to their smaller titles.

I sell TWICE as many copies of Saga trade paperbacks as I have customers who have it on subscription.

Same thing with Wicked/Divine.

I have ONE person who subscribes to Southern Bastards, but I've sold over 10 of each of the trade paperback.

I had NO ONE who was subscribing to The Fade Out (despite my constant praise) and yet, I sell the trades regularly. (I've already got a few people signed up for Kill or Be Killed though!)

Manhattan Projects has brought out, what, one or two one shots in the last year or two, yet I consistently sell the trades.

 

The readers are there. They just have gravitated toward a different way to read.

 

They've lost more readers for floppies than those numbers show, but gained more in books.

 

And who knows what the digital numbers are? Comixology and the publisher's are keeping mum... but Ms. Marvel is regularly a top ten title on the Comixology list, showing that people who read digital are somewhat different than those who come into the comic shops. I think person_without_enough_empathy Planet is like #13 right now!

 

Direct Market Comic Book shops NEED the weekly sales of floppies to survive. The way Marvel and DC do business, keeps traffic flow going, but Image I guess felt like they were never going to compete like that, because they don't have a 60+ year Universe of characters to tie together. So they've gone a different route.

 

Ultimately, I find my Image and independent readers to be more pleased with their purchases than the Marvel and DC readers overall.

 

Though man oh man, has Rebirth really gotten people fired up!

 

[the authority]

Yeah. I'm buying more digital (just so I don't have to wait) and trades myself, so anecdotally, I can certainly see your point. Rebirth has been an improvement over the New 52 imo. If they can keep it up, DC could give Marvel all they can handle. That's something to look forward to all by itself.

[Prince Namor]

Yeah. I'm buying more digital (just so I don't have to wait) and trades myself, so anecdotally, I can certainly see your point. Rebirth has been an improvement over the New 52 imo. If they can keep it up, DC could give Marvel all they can handle. That's something to look forward to all by itself.

 

I wasn't a retailer but for the last year and a half of the New 52 (and Convergence) and it's amazing to see the DC people come out of hiding and get behind Rebirth. They really seem to love it!