KILLER HULKs on c-link!

[FFB]

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't know if you consider 18 copies in CGC 8.0 or better scarce.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

Just for clarity: the book has been slabbed 18 times in VF or better, but there are certainly fewer than 18 encapsulated copies at that grade. Indeed, I suspect that most high grade copies of Marvel keys have been slabbed at least twice, and an unknown fraction are not being reported to the census as having been re-graded.

 

Ergo, less common than you'd think.

 

And, man, but those Northland copies of 2 and 3 are outrageous

 

You could be correct.

 

But just assume there are actually 18 CGC copies in 8.0. Is that a lot? Not to me.

 

Yes, the price is way out of the reach of most collectors, but it's not like there's no demand for the book. There's over 300 hundred copies of Hulk #102 in CGC 8.0. It's not like they are all available for sale (as in everyone can't wait to get rid of them).

 

Also, and this is just my opinion, but I think the demand for most Marvel's is around 10 times as much as DC's. So while I will completely acknowledge that DC's are much harder to find in high grade, they also have a lot less demand. And MANY of the Silver-Age DC's Keys are only NEW VERSIONS of an old character. Great, first SA Hawkman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, etc. And of course the big three (Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman), don't have SA first appearances.

 

Not trying to debate what's better DC or Marvel, just saying that 18 issues of a Major Silver-Age Marvel Key in HG (8.0 or better) is not an oversupply of that book.

 

wholeheartedly agree on the point of only 18 copies graded at 8.0+ of a Marvel Key, being pretty scarce!!!!!!!!!!

 

just yesterday i was looking at X-men and Avengers stats and found that there are 67 copies of avengers #4 graded at 9.0+ (a very common Key in HG, but one with incredible demand).

 

Yeah, but Avengers #4 was a warehouse find. I don't think you can compare it fairly with Hulk #1 because it's a special case.

[Aman619]

I know its fairly common, but which warehouse find was it, um, found in?

[sfilosa]

I know its fairly common, but which warehouse find was it, um, found in?

 

 

Yeah, I didn't know it was a warehouse find either. It's still 1964.

 

It similiar to Daredevil #1.

 

1) Exact same amount of 9.0 or higher copies in the census.

 

2) Fairly white cover which might show yellowing (CGC doesn't downgrade for), but also hide / prevents certain defects.

 

Sixty Seven CGC 9.0 or higher copies definitely puts it in the "Not Hard to Find in High Grade" catergory.

[awe4one]

Yeah, I didn't know it was a warehouse find either.

 

I've heard this before as well. Couldn't tell you when it was found though. Hell...it could have been regurgitated bad info for all I know but the rumor's been out there for awhile...

 

Jim

[tth2]

Yeah, but Avengers #4 was a warehouse find.

First I've ever heard that, Scott. What's your source? Although it's not an uncommon issue, and not uncommon in HG either, Avengers 4 doesn't exactly exhibit the kind of massive HG numbers you typically see in warehouse finds (Avengers 25, ASM 33, DD 9, FF 48, etc.).

[sfilosa]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Yeah, but Avengers #4 was a warehouse find.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

First I've ever heard that, Scott. What's your source? Although it's not an uncommon issue, and not uncommon in HG either, Avengers 4 doesn't exactly exhibit the kind of massive HG numbers you typically see in warehouse finds (Avengers 25, ASM 33, DD 9, FF 48, etc.).

 

 

And as I stated, it's from 1964, which is that Pre-1965 year when there were definitely some warehouse finds.

[tth2]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Yeah, but Avengers #4 was a warehouse find.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

First I've ever heard that, Scott. What's your source? Although it's not an uncommon issue, and not uncommon in HG either, Avengers 4 doesn't exactly exhibit the kind of massive HG numbers you typically see in warehouse finds (Avengers 25, ASM 33, DD 9, FF 48, etc.).

 

 

And as I stated, it's from 1964, which is that Pre-1965 year when there were definitely some warehouse finds.

Well, there are some pre-1965 warehouse finds. There's no other way to explain books like TTA 39, TOS 48 and JIM 88. They don't have massive numbers like the post-64 warehouse finds, but they just dwarf the surrounding issues in terms of high grade copies.

[adamstrange]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Yeah, but Avengers #4 was a warehouse find.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

First I've ever heard that, Scott. What's your source? Although it's not an uncommon issue, and not uncommon in HG either, Avengers 4 doesn't exactly exhibit the kind of massive HG numbers you typically see in warehouse finds (Avengers 25, ASM 33, DD 9, FF 48, etc.).

 

 

And as I stated, it's from 1964, which is that Pre-1965 year when there were definitely some warehouse finds.

Well, there are some pre-1965 warehouse finds. There's no other way to explain books like TTA 39, TOS 48 and JIM 88. They don't have massive numbers like the post-64 warehouse finds, but they just dwarf the surrounding issues in terms of high grade copies.

 

They don't have to be "warehouse" finds. One type of find that's occurred over the years is a bundle or two of a particular issue being found in an old drugstore. The outer copies might be damaged while many of the inner books in the stack would grade extremely high. I've actually seen a bundle of a 40s comics still wrapped in the original twine!

[FFB]

Yeah, but Avengers #4 was a warehouse find.

First I've ever heard that, Scott. What's your source? Although it's not an uncommon issue, and not uncommon in HG either, Avengers 4 doesn't exactly exhibit the kind of massive HG numbers you typically see in warehouse finds (Avengers 25, ASM 33, DD 9, FF 48, etc.).

 

My source is several old posts from here from guys like Shadroch. Search and you'll find them.

[sfilosa]

Well, there are some pre-1965 warehouse finds. There's no other way to explain books like TTA 39, TOS 48 and JIM 88. They don't have massive numbers like the post-64 warehouse finds, but they just dwarf the surrounding issues in terms of high grade copies.

 

 

Huh?

 

TOS #48 has 10 more issues in CGC 9.0 or higher then #49

TTA #39 has 8 more issues in CGC 9.0 or higher then #40

JIM #88 has 6 more issues in CGC 9.0 or higher then #89

 

 

Not a compelling argument from a WAREHOUSE FIND. Yes, maybe one extra bundle was found from one store, many years after the books were issues, but surely not a extraordinary amount.

 

Plus, ya dising my TTA #39 (which I have the CGC 9.6 White Mountain copy), and implying that the book can be found in high grade at every flea market and swap shop in town.

[tth2]

Well, there are some pre-1965 warehouse finds. There's no other way to explain books like TTA 39, TOS 48 and JIM 88. They don't have massive numbers like the post-64 warehouse finds, but they just dwarf the surrounding issues in terms of high grade copies.

 

 

Huh?

 

TOS #48 has 10 more issues in CGC 9.0 or higher then #49

TTA #39 has 8 more issues in CGC 9.0 or higher then #40

JIM #88 has 6 more issues in CGC 9.0 or higher then #89

 

 

Not a compelling argument from a WAREHOUSE FIND. Yes, maybe one extra bundle was found from one store, many years after the books were issues, but surely not a extraordinary amount.

 

Plus, ya dising my TTA #39 (which I have the CGC 9.6 White Mountain copy), and implying that the book can be found in high grade at every flea market and swap shop in town.

Okay, I stand corrected by you and Adam that these were not warehouse finds. However, while the numbers you cite above might be small in terms of absolute numbers, in terms of percentage they're pretty big, particularly if you look only at 9.4 and above. Actually, I have to admit I was pretty surprised to see how much the numbers of TTA #38 have crept up.

 

And you know that everytime I dis TTA #39, I'm dissing myself too! At least you have a 9.6, not one of the "common" 9.4s!

[sfilosa]

Okay, I stand corrected by you and Adam that these were not warehouse finds. However, while the numbers you cite above might be small in terms of absolute numbers, in terms of percentage they're pretty big, particularly if you look only at 9.4 and above.

 

See, I can't necessarily by the argument that you have to look at 9.4 or above. Certain books have a tendency to show more wear due to the printing process, and colors used. Therefore, there can be the same amount of books that have survived in High Grade, but one might show less copies in 9.4 simply because that book accumulates wear more easily (which means it should have more copies in 9.0 or 9.2).

 

TTA #39 is a very light cover book, which is why it doesn't exhibit as much wear. Of course white cover books have a greater chance of yellowing, but CGC doesn't downgrade for that, so it's not a factor in the final grade.

[Aces]

Speaking of C-Link...

 

There are just some things I don't understand.

FF Page

 

Check the FF 5 (9.0):

 

Price: $10,250

Current bid: $10,000

 

Now you mean to tell me that somebody really wants the book, has 10G's to shell out for it, but just can't find the other 250 bucks.

 

That's like passing over a $102.50 BIN on eBay on a 9.0 Late Silver book you really want because you don't want to spend more than $100.

 

Then there is the FF 3 (5.0):

 

FANTASTIC FOUR #3 , CGC 5.0 VGF

Highest CGC Graded!

Fantastic Four don costumes and est ...

Last Update: 4/2/2005 4:54:10 PM EST

 

If 5.0 is the highest graded copy then those three 8.0s/8.5s must be fakes!

 

And you people who sell raw books there...

Please put up scans!

[greggy]

Speaking of C-Link...

 

There are just some things I don't understand.

FF Page

 

Check the FF 5 (9.0):

 

Price: $10,250

Current bid: $10,000

 

Now you mean to tell me that somebody really wants the book, has 10G's to shell out for it, but just can't find the other 250 bucks.

 

That's like passing over a $102.50 BIN on eBay on a 9.0 Late Silver book you really want because you don't want to spend more than $100.

 

Then there is the FF 3 (5.0):

 

FANTASTIC FOUR #3 , CGC 5.0 VGF

Highest CGC Graded!

Fantastic Four don costumes and est ...

Last Update: 4/2/2005 4:54:10 PM EST

 

If 5.0 is the highest graded copy then those three 8.0s/8.5s must be fakes!

 

And you people who sell raw books there...

Please put up scans!

Maybe the seller reduced it to $10,250 and the old bid still shows even though the bidder may not be interested in it anymore!

[sfilosa]

Maybe the seller reduced it to $10,250 and the old bid still shows even though the bidder may not be interested in it anymore!

 

That would be my guess also.

[Aman619]

thats it. The high bid came a while ago when the seller still wanted 11500 I think. Just a misleading effect of the Comiclink process the way it was setup. If bids and counteroffers went smoothly toward a sale these things wouldnt happen. But, just how SHOULD it work? Should rejected or lapsed bids disappear entirely? While it may LOOK like the bidder is balking at a lousy 2.5% increase - -- common sense tells us thats not whats really happenned.

[tth2]

See, I can't necessarily by the argument that you have to look at 9.4 or above.

I don't know what there is or is not to buy. It's just an arbitrary cut-off, no more or less arbitrary than you using 9.0. In the old days, people used to consider HG to mean VF and above, so why not extend the discussion to cover those grades too? In any event, I don't think the higher grades for these books can only be attributed to the white covers, particularly since CGC downgrades for non-color breaking creases.

[sfilosa]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

See, I can't necessarily by the argument that you have to look at 9.4 or above.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I don't know what there is or is not to buy. It's just an arbitrary cut-off, no more or less arbitrary than you using 9.0. In the old days, people used to consider HG to mean VF and above, so why not extend the discussion to cover those grades too? In any event, I don't think the higher grades for these books can only be attributed to the white covers, particularly since CGC downgrades for non-color breaking creases.

 

I agree that 9.0 is arbitrary (even though I do believe there are a lot of collectors that use that as a cut-off).

 

While CGC does downgrade for non-color breaking creases, I believe it's a fact that certain inks crack (i.e. color break) more easily then others. Therefore, my guess would be that pressing would clearly help light cover books more.

 

A perfect example is DD #7, the darkest cover book in the first 9 issues, the toughest to find in high grade.

[uclapeterg]

A, 5.0 is the highest graded PENCES copy.

[Aces]

A, 5.0 is the highest graded PENCES copy.

 

Sure...

Go read the fine print on me!