20 Top Silver-Age Marvel Books

[ComicBookGuy]

Tales of Suspense 57? (the one where Cap gets part of the title)

Tales to Astonish 59? (the one where Hulk gets part of the title)

 

TOS 58 Cap Vs Iron Man

TOS 59 Cap begins

TTA 59 Hulk Vs Giant Man

TTA 60 Hulk Begins (again)

 

I'm with you that these are potentially top 20 keys, but it's hard to say whether the battle issues are the "beginning" of the runs or not. I think they are even though the covers say the subsequent issues are. TOS 58 is most key cause Hulk had a #1 already. Just my opinion. And I also think it's by far the toughest issue to find in high grade of the four.

Joe

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Top 20 Silver-Age Marvel books were from a Historical point of view

 

FF # 3 has more of a historical importance than half the books on your list.

 

You're looking at a definitive birth of the Marvel super hero era in the form we all recognize. How the first appearance of a Doc Ock or Wasp even comes close is beyond me.

 

 

Ya know your my buddy.......... but what's so special that they started to wear customes and established a headquarter? It's not like they were the first to every think of this idea.

 

Every book on my Top 20 list (except ASM #1) introduces a character to the Marvel Universt that played a fairly substantial role (at least through the 1960's).

 

Check this out:

I have my old copy of Overstreet Guide #10 (1980), so here are the values of the first five issues of FF then and now.

 

Guide #10 #35 INC.

FF # 1 1000 35000 3500%

FF #2 360 7000 1944%

FF #3 240 4800 2000%

FF #4 180 5300 2944%

FF #5 135 7200 5333%

 

I show this because over the past 25 years this book is actually falling behind other issues (except #2 which is clearly not a key).

 

How do you like them apples.

 

Just because the hobby as a whole has overlooked the importance of the issue, doesn't mean it wasn't pivotal in the development of the Marvel universe. In fact, I would say that the whole headquarters and costumes aspect is the LEAST important facet of it's significance.

 

Remember, this was a time before the existance of any other super hero in the Marvel universe. No contemporaries to speak of whatsoever..the FF was it. And in this very issue is where the FF are brought into our world...into New York city, not the generic "Empire City" of the origin issue. I think this fact alone makes the book a milestone. One of the reasons Marvel began to outsell DC was its realism, at least in the sense that the superheroes existed in the same world that we do.

 

Add in the bold proclamation of the "World's Greatest Comic Magazine" on the cover, the progenitor of Stan Lee's marketing genius that would spawn the classic Marvel covers of the 60s, the costumes, the headquarters, the letter's page, the pin-ups(?), and you have the Marvel comic we all came to love in every respect.

 

I'll say it again, FF# 3 was the firm dividing line between the pre-hero monster mags that preceeded it and the super hero comics that were soon to follow. Just like TTA # 27 would be another random pre-hero mag without # 35, so would FF # 1+2 be lost in the flotsam of Kirby + Lee sci-fi comics without the precedent set forth by # 3. In fact, the ending to FF # 2 is a classic Lee "hero cleverly saves the world from a space invasion" type story that permeated the genre at the time.

 

And as I reread this thread, there are a couple of other collectors (FF Fans undoubtedly) that share my opinion. I don't think it's a question of first appearances Steve, and I don't think the discussion of historical significance should be limited to that criteria alone. When evaluating something as "historically significant", I think its important to understand the context.

 

That's why I believe the FF # 52 from your alternate list is a valid Top 20 contendee, for example, because it set forth a unique precedent that transcended the continuity of the FF titles alone. It's far more important, historically, than say ASM # 3...I mean, really, were it not for the movie, would Doc Ock ever have been anything more then a B Spider-Man villain? Has he ever been apart of some important Marvel continuity? (Like a Doom or Thanos).

 

My best suggestion is this: find reading copies of FF # 1-3, as well as the Strange Tales, Journey into Mystery, TTA & TOS from the same months and tell me that FF # 3 isn't clearly the most like what we envision Marvel super hero comics of the 60s to be.

[namisgr]

Just because the hobby as a whole has overlooked the importance of the issue, doesn't mean it wasn't pivotal in the development of the Marvel universe. In fact, I would say that the whole headquarters and costumes aspect is the LEAST important facet of it's significance.

 

Remember, this was a time before the existance of any other super hero in the Marvel universe. No contemporaries to speak of whatsoever..the FF was it. And in this very issue is where the FF are brought into our world...into New York city, not the generic "Empire City" of the origin issue. I think this fact alone makes the book a milestone. One of the reasons Marvel began to outsell DC was its realism, at least in the sense that the superheroes existed in the same world that we do.

 

Add in the bold proclamation of the "World's Greatest Comic Magazine" on the cover, the progenitor of Stan Lee's marketing genius that would spawn the classic Marvel covers of the 60s, the costumes, the headquarters, the letter's page, the pin-ups(?), and you have the Marvel comic we all came to love in every respect.

 

I'll say it again, FF# 3 was the firm dividing line between the pre-hero monster mags that preceeded it and the super hero comics that were soon to follow. Just like TTA # 27 would be another random pre-hero mag without # 35, so would FF # 1+2 be lost in the flotsam of Kirby + Lee sci-fi comics without the precedent set forth by # 3. In fact, the ending to FF # 2 is a classic Lee "hero cleverly saves the world from a space invasion" type story that permeated the genre at the time.

 

And as I reread this thread, there are a couple of other collectors (FF Fans undoubtedly) that share my opinion. I don't think it's a question of first appearances Steve, and I don't think the discussion of historical significance should be limited to that criteria alone. When evaluating something as "historically significant", I think its important to understand the context.

 

That's why I believe the FF # 52 from your alternate list is a valid Top 20 contendee, for example, because it set forth a unique precedent that transcended the continuity of the FF titles alone. It's far more important, historically, than say ASM # 3...I mean, really, were it not for the movie, would Doc Ock ever have been anything more then a B Spider-Man villain? Has he ever been apart of some important Marvel continuity? (Like a Doom or Thanos).

 

My best suggestion is this: find reading copies of FF # 1-3, as well as the Strange Tales, Journey into Mystery, TTA & TOS from the same months and tell me that FF # 3 isn't clearly the most like what we envision Marvel super hero comics of the 60s to be.

 

George, you've made a persuasive, articulate case, for FF3, and it has swayed me. However, I am less dismissive than you of ASM 3. During the '60s, I believe Doc Ock was the most important of all the Spidey villains - the sheer number of appearances supports this, plus he was engaged in Spidey's personal life through his "relationship" with Aunt May. The Goblin is admittedly a more significant adversary, but he only reached a pinnacle of importance during the Bronze Age issues 96-98 and 121-122.

 

Still prefer Hulk 2 over DD 7.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

You're right, ASM # 3 shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. If anything, I think Doc Ock has always been overshadowed by the Green Goblin, and unfairly so, even though the good doctor has proven to be the more long-lived of the two.

[arexcrooke]

What about ASM 50? Intro of the Kingpin, a major thorn and player in both the ASM and DD continuity. Where would you fine folks rate it?

[Silver Surfer]

Good list Steve but I'm kind of on the fence when it comes to ASM#3 and #14. For some reason I want to put Silver Surfer #1 on that list even though it was a short lived title. If they ever make a movie that involves the Surfer it will be a blockbuster. I even want to include Sub-Mariner #1 out of respect because he is their original super-hero.

[sfilosa]

Once again, I have a hard time putting any book on the list that's not a first appearance (ASM #1 excluded). Just like putting TOS #58 or #59 / TTA #59 or #60, it's just adding characters to the title, not adding characters to the Marvel Universe.

 

I do think that ASM #50 (first Kingpin) would have some consideration. I probably would put that book ahead of ASM #2 and #13 as he is a more wellknown villian then those.

 

Basically, my list includes all the Super Heroes in the Marvel Universe from 1961-1963. I then added a few Heroes that came slightly later (Daredevil and Silver Surfer).

 

From the villians side, I believe the five most important villians of the Silver-Age were:

1) Doctor Doom

2) Green Goblin

3) Magneto

4) Doc Ock

5) Loki

 

So they all are included.

 

Oh, and regarding FF #12 being the first CROSSOVER, didn't Spidey #1 come out the same month. Therefore, those who want the first CROSSOVER included, I'll use ASM #1 for that.

[burntboy]

Top 20 Silver-Age Marvel books were from a Historical point of view

 

FF # 3 has more of a historical importance than half the books on your list.

 

You're looking at a definitive birth of the Marvel super hero era in the form we all recognize. How the first appearance of a Doc Ock or Wasp even comes close is beyond me.

 

 

My top 20:

 

Fantastic Four 1

Amazing Fantasy 15

Avengers 1

X-Men 1

Daredevil 1

Tales of Suspense 39

Tales to Astonish 27

Hulk 1

Daredevil 1

Journey into Mystery 83

 

Second tier:

Fantastic Four 3

Fantastic Four 4

Fantastic Four 5

Fantastic Four 12

Daredevil 7

Spider-Man 14

Tales of Suspense 57? (the one where Cap gets part of the title)

Tales to Astonish 59? (the one where Hulk gets part of the title)

X-Men 4

Avengers 4

 

Of course, my top 10 was the first appearance of all the major characters in the Marvel Universe. I didn't include Spider-Man 1 because that wasn't his first appearance.

 

Onto my second tier:

 

Fantastic Four 3 - first appearance of a SA Marvel hero in costume; 1st headquarters established (Baxter Building)

 

Fantastic Four 4 - first appearance of Marvel GA character (hero/villan?) in SA ; I would compare this to Showcase 4

 

Fantastic Four 5 - first appearance of Doctor Doom (look, we can debate first appearances, but you have to include him)

 

Fantastic Four 12 - 1st Marvel crossover (Hulk) and they have been doing them ever since

 

Daredevil 7 - 1st major change in superhero's costume and it stuck!

 

Spider-Man 14 - first appearance of Green Goblin (Doc Ock? please. He's still a 2nd tier villian despite him being in SM 2)

 

TOS 57/ TTA 59 - heroes get part of a title that they would eventually take over for themselves.

 

Avengers 4 - first appearance of Capt. America

 

X-Men 4 - if I remember, this is the first appearance of a villian "team" (I may be wrong)

 

I, of course, am partial to Fantastic Four. But how can a list of the best not include the most FF's. I didn't include FF 48. It was a tough decision, but I think a correct one.

 

i like your list a lot, too!!!!!!!

 

but if i understand your daredevil # 7 rationale, i'd have to say that Ironman changed his costume at least twice before DD#7, including the change in #48 which, more or less, became his uniform right up to present day.

 

and when you describe your rationale for FF #4, i'd opine that since you are drawing an analogy with Showcase #4, then FF#1 is the first appearance of a Marvel GA character in the SA (Torch - remember showcase 4 wasn't the SAME flash either).

[burntboy]

Top 20 Silver-Age Marvel books were from a Historical point of view

 

FF # 3 has more of a historical importance than half the books on your list.

 

You're looking at a definitive birth of the Marvel super hero era in the form we all recognize. How the first appearance of a Doc Ock or Wasp even comes close is beyond me.

 

 

Ya know your my buddy.......... but what's so special that they started to wear customes and established a headquarter? It's not like they were the first to every think of this idea.

 

Every book on my Top 20 list (except ASM #1) introduces a character to the Marvel Universt that played a fairly substantial role (at least through the 1960's).

 

Check this out:

I have my old copy of Overstreet Guide #10 (1980), so here are the values of the first five issues of FF then and now.

 

Guide #10 #35 INC.

FF # 1 1000 35000 3500%

FF #2 360 7000 1944%

FF #3 240 4800 2000%

FF #4 180 5300 2944%

FF #5 135 7200 5333%

 

I show this because over the past 25 years this book is actually falling behind other issues (except #2 which is clearly not a key).

 

How do you like them apples.

 

Just because the hobby as a whole has overlooked the importance of the issue, doesn't mean it wasn't pivotal in the development of the Marvel universe. In fact, I would say that the whole headquarters and costumes aspect is the LEAST important facet of it's significance.

 

Remember, this was a time before the existance of any other super hero in the Marvel universe. No contemporaries to speak of whatsoever..the FF was it. And in this very issue is where the FF are brought into our world...into New York city, not the generic "Empire City" of the origin issue. I think this fact alone makes the book a milestone. One of the reasons Marvel began to outsell DC was its realism, at least in the sense that the superheroes existed in the same world that we do.

 

Add in the bold proclamation of the "World's Greatest Comic Magazine" on the cover, the progenitor of Stan Lee's marketing genius that would spawn the classic Marvel covers of the 60s, the costumes, the headquarters, the letter's page, the pin-ups(?), and you have the Marvel comic we all came to love in every respect.

 

I'll say it again, FF# 3 was the firm dividing line between the pre-hero monster mags that preceeded it and the super hero comics that were soon to follow. Just like TTA # 27 would be another random pre-hero mag without # 35, so would FF # 1+2 be lost in the flotsam of Kirby + Lee sci-fi comics without the precedent set forth by # 3. In fact, the ending to FF # 2 is a classic Lee "hero cleverly saves the world from a space invasion" type story that permeated the genre at the time.

 

And as I reread this thread, there are a couple of other collectors (FF Fans undoubtedly) that share my opinion. I don't think it's a question of first appearances Steve, and I don't think the discussion of historical significance should be limited to that criteria alone. When evaluating something as "historically significant", I think its important to understand the context.

 

That's why I believe the FF # 52 from your alternate list is a valid Top 20 contendee, for example, because it set forth a unique precedent that transcended the continuity of the FF titles alone. It's far more important, historically, than say ASM # 3...I mean, really, were it not for the movie, would Doc Ock ever have been anything more then a B Spider-Man villain? Has he ever been apart of some important Marvel continuity? (Like a Doom or Thanos).

 

My best suggestion is this: find reading copies of FF # 1-3, as well as the Strange Tales, Journey into Mystery, TTA & TOS from the same months and tell me that FF # 3 isn't clearly the most like what we envision Marvel super hero comics of the 60s to be.

 

compelling points about FF#3 and i'm with you on that one.............

[burntboy]

Once again, I have a hard time putting any book on the list that's not a first appearance (ASM #1 excluded). Just like putting TOS #58 or #59 / TTA #59 or #60, it's just adding characters to the title, not adding characters to the Marvel Universe.

 

I do think that ASM #50 (first Kingpin) would have some consideration. I probably would put that book ahead of ASM #2 and #13 as he is a more wellknown villian then those.

 

Basically, my list includes all the Super Heroes in the Marvel Universe from 1961-1963. I then added a few Heroes that came slightly later (Daredevil and Silver Surfer).

 

From the villians side, I believe the five most important villians of the Silver-Age were:

1) Doctor Doom

2) Green Goblin

3) Magneto

4) Doc Ock

5) Loki

 

So they all are included.

 

Oh, and regarding FF #12 being the first CROSSOVER, didn't Spidey #1 come out the same month. Therefore, those who want the first CROSSOVER included, I'll use ASM #1 for that.

 

solid rationale for your choices..........

[uclapeterg]

Top 20 Silver-Age Marvel books were from a Historical point of view

 

FF # 3 has more of a historical importance than half the books on your list.

 

You're looking at a definitive birth of the Marvel super hero era in the form we all recognize. How the first appearance of a Doc Ock or Wasp even comes close is beyond me.

 

 

My top 20:

 

Fantastic Four 1

Amazing Fantasy 15

Avengers 1

X-Men 1

Daredevil 1

Tales of Suspense 39

Tales to Astonish 27

Hulk 1

Daredevil 1

Journey into Mystery 83

 

Second tier:

Fantastic Four 3

Fantastic Four 4

Fantastic Four 5

Fantastic Four 12

Daredevil 7

Spider-Man 14

Tales of Suspense 57? (the one where Cap gets part of the title)

Tales to Astonish 59? (the one where Hulk gets part of the title)

X-Men 4

Avengers 4

 

Of course, my top 10 was the first appearance of all the major characters in the Marvel Universe. I didn't include Spider-Man 1 because that wasn't his first appearance.

 

Onto my second tier:

 

Fantastic Four 3 - first appearance of a SA Marvel hero in costume; 1st headquarters established (Baxter Building)

 

Fantastic Four 4 - first appearance of Marvel GA character (hero/villan?) in SA ; I would compare this to Showcase 4

 

Fantastic Four 5 - first appearance of Doctor Doom (look, we can debate first appearances, but you have to include him)

 

Fantastic Four 12 - 1st Marvel crossover (Hulk) and they have been doing them ever since

 

Daredevil 7 - 1st major change in superhero's costume and it stuck!

 

Spider-Man 14 - first appearance of Green Goblin (Doc Ock? please. He's still a 2nd tier villian despite him being in SM 2)

 

TOS 57/ TTA 59 - heroes get part of a title that they would eventually take over for themselves.

 

Avengers 4 - first appearance of Capt. America

 

X-Men 4 - if I remember, this is the first appearance of a villian "team" (I may be wrong)

 

I, of course, am partial to Fantastic Four. But how can a list of the best not include the most FF's. I didn't include FF 48. It was a tough decision, but I think a correct one.

 

i like your list a lot, too!!!!!!!

 

but if i understand your daredevil # 7 rationale, i'd have to say that Ironman changed his costume at least twice before DD#7, including the change in #48 which, more or less, became his uniform right up to present day.

 

and when you describe your rationale for FF #4, i'd opine that since you are drawing an analogy with Showcase #4, then FF#1 is the first appearance of a Marvel GA character in the SA (Torch - remember showcase 4 wasn't the SAME flash either).

 

what about the red and grey one? ok, drop DD 7 and add FF 48. ok, happy?

[Silver Surfer]

Without a doubt FF#4 and Avengers #4 have tremedous significance. To me they not only symbolize the revvial of the most popular GA characters from Timely/Marvel's past but the dawn of a new era that literally changed the comic world forever. The manner in which Stan and Jack brought them back was brilliant. Two of my top 5 SA books. In a way I wish they somehow incorporated the original Human Torch as a member of the Fantastic Four. I'd sure like to pick Stan's brain on the thought process back then.

[uclapeterg]

Once again, I have a hard time putting any book on the list that's not a first appearance (ASM #1 excluded). Just like putting TOS #58 or #59 / TTA #59 or #60, it's just adding characters to the title, not adding characters to the Marvel Universe.

 

I do think that ASM #50 (first Kingpin) would have some consideration. I probably would put that book ahead of ASM #2 and #13 as he is a more wellknown villian then those.

 

Basically, my list includes all the Super Heroes in the Marvel Universe from 1961-1963. I then added a few Heroes that came slightly later (Daredevil and Silver Surfer).

 

From the villians side, I believe the five most important villians of the Silver-Age were:

1) Doctor Doom

2) Green Goblin

3) Magneto

4) Doc Ock

5) Loki

 

So they all are included.

 

Oh, and regarding FF #12 being the first CROSSOVER, didn't Spidey #1 come out the same month. Therefore, those who want the first CROSSOVER included, I'll use ASM #1 for that.

 

I agree with your first three villians, not your last two. I would argue that Galactus and Sub Mariner should occupy the last two spots.

 

And I'll use FF 12, not ASM 1. I think FF 12 came out earlier.

[uclapeterg]

take a side already, BB.. too much swiss.

 

And although this Human Torch is "like" the original Human Torch, it is different. As Peter pointed out. That's why I included FF 4.

[sfilosa]

agree with your first three villians, not your last two. I would argue that Galactus and Sub Mariner should occupy the last two spots.

 

And I'll use FF 12, not ASM 1. I think FF 12 came out earlier.

 

I don't consider Subby a villian anymore then the Hulk.

 

Galactus is clearly important (and gets included in the Top 20 list because of the Silver Surfer, just like Magento with the X-Men).

 

Yet, Loki is a main villian not only of Thor, but also is the villian in Avengers #1 (so he affects the most of the Marvel Universe).

 

Still, I would guess that almost all Marvel fans would be able to agree on 15 or the top 20, which is what makes the other 5 so fun.

[Aces]

Once again, I have a hard time putting any book on the list that's not a first appearance (ASM #1 excluded). Just like putting TOS #58 or #59 / TTA #59 or #60, it's just adding characters to the title, not adding characters to the Marvel Universe.

 

I do think that ASM #50 (first Kingpin) would have some consideration. I probably would put that book ahead of ASM #2 and #13 as he is a more wellknown villian then those.

 

Basically, my list includes all the Super Heroes in the Marvel Universe from 1961-1963. I then added a few Heroes that came slightly later (Daredevil and Silver Surfer).

 

From the villians side, I believe the five most important villians of the Silver-Age were:

1) Doctor Doom

2) Green Goblin

3) Magneto

4) Doc Ock

5) Loki

 

So they all are included.

 

Oh, and regarding FF #12 being the first CROSSOVER, didn't Spidey #1 come out the same month. Therefore, those who want the first CROSSOVER included, I'll use ASM #1 for that.

 

How could you leave out Paste Pot Pete or the Terrible Tinker!?

[uclapeterg]

agree with your first three villians, not your last two. I would argue that Galactus and Sub Mariner should occupy the last two spots.

 

And I'll use FF 12, not ASM 1. I think FF 12 came out earlier.

 

I don't consider Subby a villian anymore then the Hulk.

 

Galactus is clearly important (and gets included in the Top 20 list because of the Silver Surfer, just like Magento with the X-Men).

 

Yet, Loki is a main villian not only of Thor, but also is the villian in Avengers #1 (so he affects the most of the Marvel Universe).

 

Still, I would guess that almost all Marvel fans would be able to agree on 15 or the top 20, which is what makes the other 5 so fun.

 

When was Loki's next appearance in the Avengers? I forget.

 

Sub-Mariner has always been one of the hero-villians. And you want to talk about Doc Ock's relationship with Aunt May. What about S-M's fascination with Sue Richards?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Oh, and regarding FF #12 being the first CROSSOVER, didn't Spidey #1 come out the same month. Therefore, those who want the first CROSSOVER included, I'll use ASM #1 for that

 

Technically, FF # 12 appeared on the newstands several weeks before Amazing Spider-Man # 1, so I believe it is the bonafide 1st Marvel cross-over.

 

Actually, depending on how you want to define X-Over, neither FF # 12 or ASM # 1 are the first, but that's a seperate debate.

[Aces]

Oh, and regarding FF #12 being the first CROSSOVER, didn't Spidey #1 come out the same month. Therefore, those who want the first CROSSOVER included, I'll use ASM #1 for that

 

Technically, FF # 12 appeared on the newstands several weeks before Amazing Spider-Man # 1, so I believe it is the bonafide 1st Marvel cross-over.

 

Actually, depending on how you want to define X-Over, neither FF # 12 or ASM # 1 are the first, but that's a seperate debate.

 

Are you counting FF 4?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Oh, and regarding FF #12 being the first CROSSOVER, didn't Spidey #1 come out the same month. Therefore, those who want the first CROSSOVER included, I'll use ASM #1 for that

 

Technically, FF # 12 appeared on the newstands several weeks before Amazing Spider-Man # 1, so I believe it is the bonafide 1st Marvel cross-over.

 

Actually, depending on how you want to define X-Over, neither FF # 12 or ASM # 1 are the first, but that's a seperate debate.

 

Are you counting FF 4?

 

I was actually thinking along the lines of a Strange Tales # 102...a cross-over appearance by the Invisible Girl in a title not her own.