Trading - How do you do it?

[Bill C]

I only remember trading twice via mail, both with the same collector. Actually one of those times was very recent. We have talked via email for a while before the first trade so were fairly comfortable with each other. Both transactions were fair and laid back. Shipping particulars were covered beforehand, no surprises.

[Pete Marino]

Best way to trade is to not trade

 

Its usually a frustrating time waster.

 

In theory its great, we have different tastes so we trade. In practice, rarely are two pieces equal so both guys always want the same piece.

 

Exactly what I've come away with.

In over 25 years of collecting comic art (did I just say 25? Sheesh!), ahem... in all that time I ahve had exactly 2 art-for-art trades go through and smoothly. In both cases they were with collectors that I had spoken with on many occasions, and would call friends after a fashion. The point being I was comfortable with them, and they with me. There was never any need for who ships first, or how, or worries about ripoffs.

 

There were other attempts as trades over the years, but like Bronty said, the chances of all the moons aligning is so so slim. All my others fell apart at one stage or another.

 

Anecdotally speaking, from what I've seen in the hobby in general, more often there are lopsided trades. A partial trade plus cash, or less frequently a multi-part trade, or multi-person trade. Those can and do happen, but I've seen more fall apart than actually go through. Especially without bruised egos or reputations. I'm sure a few folks here have heard stories of trades that have melted down in epic fashion.

 

The simple truth is, the solid folks in this hobby are not going to rip other folks off. I'd say one of the absolute most important things you can have in this hobby as a buyer, seller or even just as a person, is a good reputation. There are a lot of people playing with original art, but the serious guys have looooooong memories, and you never know who's going to have something you want down the line. Burn bridges at your own expense.

 

If you don't know someone, get to know them. If you don't know how to work a trade with a specific individual, you aren't ready to start trading yet. There are no hard fast rules. The etiquette is, don't be a . Don't be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person. Don't over someone for short term gain or you will reap the rewards. Don't send your AH! Catworman cover in trade to a Nigerian Prince who says he has Ditko Spidey to trade with. If it's too good to be true, it more than likely is. If it's shadey, walk. If you just don't know the person, try asking for references, and make sure those references know people you know. Other dealers, or collectors preferably.

 

I could say for instance that I've never actually met Bronty, or Bird, or any number of other folks here on this board. But I'd not hesitate to ship a piece to them "first", because I know if they stiff me, they'd be hosed publicly. They wouldn't do that, and neither would I. And that goes for maybe a couple thousand people I've seen around over the years. people I may never have even talked to via email before. But I have seen their names around. I know of them by reputation. So... there's that.

 

 

Also, if they are not on the boards or "known" as they say. Having a friend who is, vouch for you can also help put a person's mind at ease.

[eewwnuk]

So if a dealer has a piece that I want but I want to do a partial trade should I reach out to him and say I have this piece and wanted to see how much you can reduce the price by?

[MyNameIsLegion]

So if a dealer has a piece that I want but I want to do a partial trade should I reach out to him and say I have this piece and wanted to see how much you can reduce the price by?

 

 

a better, more realistic scenario would be to agree what the retail value of the piece you are offering to trade is- and having that taken off the cost of the piece you want and paying the difference. In general, when trading with a dealer or individual there is an attempt to quantify value on both sides, and then making a "fair" trade. Sometimes that means one side or the other adding or removing art from the deal, or paying the cash difference.

 

I've moved over 150 pages via sale and/or trade to peers and dealers alike, in every possibly scenario, including multiple parties. I've had deals take months, weeks, days, and hours. I can only think of one deal that completely fell through with a dealer, and we just never quite got to where we wanted to be, but we had already made a few rather complex deals involving multiple pieces from both sides so no one was upset about it. I've initiated trades with peers, and been contacted by peers. I've also had dealers approach me for trades for things I offered for sale.

 

I'd say the only thing I've been wary of are offers to buy or trade from overseas- tracking packages is harder and I don't like to do it. I'll ship to a 3rd party in the US and Canada, but that's about it. I categorically will not ship to the IFS (Italy, France Spain) because there seems to be a lot of collectors on CAF that no one really knows, and they have terrible postal systems. Stateside, it's easy to check CAF, CGC, and the Comicart-l to look people up and gauge their reputation.

 

I rather enjoy trading, because when you are dealing in one of a kind items, one man's trash is another man's grail, and vice versa. There's been plenty of times neither party could get the other person to budge if just offering cash, even if paying above market, but offer the right trade, and anything is possible. This is especially useful when dealing with every increasing valuations. 2 pieces of equal value, whether it's $20, $200, or $2000 can be traded and not break the bank.

 

Shipping- as its' been said, usually the one that initiated it ships first, or both ship at the same time if it's a peer-to-peer trade. If it's a dealer, you ship first usually. Each party pays their own shipping.

[Dumur]

I've traded a few times. All went smoothly. Whether within Canada, or Canada U.S. (Don't we have a "free" trade agreement? That should mean something) and even over seas.

 

In some cases, I kind of knew the person through the boards, in others, I knew nothing about them, but asked a couple people I knew dealt with them.

 

In all cases, I feel everything was above board. There were times I knew I was getting the "better" end of the deal in terms of "FMV" and times I was on the "shorter" end of a deal, but in those cases, I don't believe anyone was being taken advantage of, it's just the case when someone has something you want more badly than what you are offering up.

 

Oh,I will say that in one of the cases, my art arrived rolled in a tube and I was SHOCKED. Because this person had an impressive collection and had clearly been around. Who mails their art in a tube?!?!

[John E.]

Well stated Bronty, Eric, and IAMLEGION.

 

Common sense dictates that you find out more about the person you're trading with. I guess if I'm on the same level of thought as the OP, I often wonder about CAF listings that say, "For sale or trade" or "trade only." So, then I wonder how we can trust each other make this trade? As a new collector I feel that I don't have a lot of people to go to check for references. But really, as I wrote prior, what are the chances that both parties have something each other wants to trade, even if the trades become lopsided? So why worry about trading with strangers?

 

[John E.]

So if a dealer has a piece that I want but I want to do a partial trade should I reach out to him and say I have this piece and wanted to see how much you can reduce the price by?

 

IAMLEGION had a more robust answer, but I don't think there's a right or wrong way to go about it. Why not ask the dealer exactly what you asked us?

 

Recently, I had committed to purchase a piece from a dealer, but wanted another piece that was way beyond my budget. So I asked him in so many words, Hey, I have this piece published last year by an ultra-popular artist and it cost me this much. Would you consider this in a "cash/trade negotiation" for that second piece? His response was that he's a vintage collector and isn't comfortable with the valuation of pieces from 1995 to the present, but then gave me a general idea of which modern artists he'd be interested in and which ones he wasn't.

 

I obviously don't know what you have that you're looking to trade with, but my point is don't worry about how asking him how much credit he'll take for your piece because he may very well not even be interested. Just go out and contact him and ask if it is something he'd be interested in taking and take it from there.

[Michael Browning]

If you are doing a trade/cash deal, then, usually, the dealer will tell you how he values the art you are offering and how much he will take off the price of the piece you are wanting and how much cash you'll have to throw in to make it work. Remember, they have to sell the piece you're offering, just like they'd have to sell the piece you're wanting, so they're probably not going to give you full retail for the piece being offered in trade.

I enjoy trading. It's always nice when a piece you've paid $200 for a few years earlier is now valued at $2000 and you can make a trade and the dealer is able to sell the art he gets from you. That's what causes a dealer to make additional trades in the future. I never want to burn someone, because I might have to come back to them later and try to make a purchase or trade and, if I've taken advantage of their good will the first time, it might not be there again. I always hope that both sides of the trade are happy.

[AKA Rick]

I've done trades via the mail before and there's a whole lot of "trust" that has to happen, so, with that, I'd always say deal with people whom you know others can vouch for or at least are known members of upstanding reputation within the hobby community.

 

Dealing with overseas, I've done it before, so I'd not throw the baby out with the bathwater and accuse any country as being of "red flag" terrain. Sure, there might be increased risks and higher odds or probability of a deal becoming a case of fraud, but it's at the best of being worst, a trend than a rule.

 

The best way ideally would be if you both could meet at a convention, but that's usually contingent upon being in the same general geography.

 

An alternate is if let's say one person is in Chicago and the other is in Florida, if they both had mutual trusted friends or associates they could hand the art off to, and have those individuals verify and then ship the respective pieces. That's not always easy 'tho either.

 

I threw caution to the wind on both a trade and a purchase with people online, sending merchandise in advance or cash in advance and have never been burned. I think if both agree to a shipping date (as we know some people get busy and lazy to then lag on packaging and shipping), and simultaneously ship their respective pieces out and discuss in advance the definition of adequate packaging and shipping method (get tracking for sure, with a signature release more so than a lame USPS delivery confirmation or somewhat often less than useful insurance, which sold packaging will always help avoid having to file a claim).

 

The act of negotiating a trade is up to both sides, everyone wants to feel they're getting the better end of the deal of course. Some seek out quality where others want quantity, so there's no guidebook. Just don't feel like you're getting bullied or coerced into making a deal that you're not going to be happy with and you'll be fine.

 

If dealing with a big ticket item, let's day over $1k, or for others in that $5k-10k range or more, then you may want to figure out added protection for assurance. If you're selling or trading $25k+ in merchandise, it may be worth hand delivering, as many RT tickets within the US can be had for under $1k often landing in that $300-500 range coast to coast, or even in that sub-$100 range within the same state.

 

When trading with resellers and dealers, it's tougher because you're essentially helping them stock their inventory with items they need to make a profit on. However, it's not to say you'll get a shady lopsided deal. If you're let's say offering "hot" artwork by artists like J. Scott Campbell or subject matter like "The Walking Dead" where it may move faster than inventory you're trading for, a smart dealer may give you equal or greater trade value in slower moving inventory that takes up space to secure your hotter selling inventory. Also, the whole "quality vs quantity" comes into play where certain dealers may find it hard to move their $10k pieces, but if you give them 10 x $1k pieces of 20 x $500 pieces, that can sell quickly, that may be appealing, or if you have a $5k piece and wanted to get 100 x $50 pieces that a dealer has that is low profile slow moving inventory, that could be a done deal too. So, in that way, you have to put yourself in the reseller/dealer's shoes acknowledging they are in the business of making money and aren't fellow peer collectors.