Lots of talk lately about drek. Example. Specific examples

[That Ron Dude]

Arak and Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld.

 

They were over purchased by the stores and put in the $.25 bins pretty quickly. They are unreadable. I put one on the bottom of my birdcage and my budgy began eating more. I used one for wrapping paper and the kid wouldn't open his gift. I put a box full of them at the curb and the garbage man forgot to pick up the rest of the garbage. I brought some down to the daycare and the kids all called in sick the next day. I tried scanning one of the covers and the glass on the scanner cracked.

 

I'm out.

 

[EwanUK]

Does drek = no value or bad writing?

 

Same question I had. With context, I've see traders (low value) and collectors (low quality of content) use it differently.

 

"drek" for me are comics with no value, even to collectors who actually read comics

 

The "drekness" factor increases in direct proportion to how cool the creators originally thought the book would be, which is why many 1990s Image and Malibu titles are the ultimate in drek - they are both "drek" and "cak"

 

I would not consider MOKF or HTD drek at all - as both sell in runs

Things like Alien Legion either as they are actually quality books

 

Another type of drek is unfortunately the later SQL / Quality books (reprints of 2000AD) but with those GODAWFUL covers by American artists. The contents are obviously quality but the covers are so ugly I often have a little cry when I find them

 

Deformed Halo Jones & Zenith

 

 

[1Cool]

Drek = relatively worthless books

 

A high end dealer may consider $1 books drek since to them that level of books are basically worthless and not worth their time. I'd think most people would consider any book that has a hard time selling for four for a $1 as drek and not really worth their time to sell.

 

I've not really heard drek used in terms of collectors or readers since I typically hear unreadable books called garbage or junk.

[KPR Comics]

It's all relative. There are well-respected titles that have large gaps of mediocrity that if someone jumped in during that point they might consider the whole title to be drek. Likewise, there are plenty of books that people claim to be drek despite having never read them.

[HighRadArt]

The only Aircel / Malibu title I have is Dragonforce, which has some nice early Dale Keown artwork.

 

Dragonforce

[pickycollector]

Still sitting on a small stack of duplicate Master of Kung Fus and Howard the Ducks, probably next to a couple of dozen Killravens, from late 70s that nobody would ever miss if it got pulped.

 

So, not absolute drek but relative drek, right?

 

Hardly drek. All 3 are great reads.

Totally agree. Master of Kung-Fu and Killraven are some of the best reads in that period

[pickycollector]

Everything that Marvel Comics made for the New Universe in since the 80's.

Fixed it for you

[valiantman]

I wouldn't be a very good "valiantman" if I didn't point out the weaker aspects of the publisher when it comes to the "drek" discussion.

 

While the stories were mostly good throughout Valiant in the 1990s, the earlier books (1991-1992) were "best", which meant the glut of books published in the "mid-years" (1993-1994) are still filling longboxes at comic shops around the country and giving Valiant a bad name.

 

~1993-1994 Valiant books which qualify as "drek" even if the stories were OK, simply due to the abundance of supply:

(because even the Valiant fanatics don't need anymore copies, even if they're free)

Archer & Armstrong #9 - #20 (if marijuana is legal in your state, you might hang on to #11)

Armorines #1 - #6 (unless that #0 has a Timewalker ad on the back cover, you can toss it, too.)

Bloodshot #2 - #15 (at least #1 is first chromium book in comics history, even if it is common.)

Deathmate (this is at least half Image's fault)

Eternal Warrior #9 - #20 (but #9 has the Book of the Geomancer! Yes, but how many do you need?)

Harbinger #12 - #28 (some possible value in #14-#15 due to first appearances, but not in the past 20+ years)

H.A.R.D.Corps #2 - #15 (H.A.R.D. to sell)

Magnus #22 - #35 (#25 is shiny silver-ish, and probably worth a shiny silver-ish nickel.)

Ninjak #1 - #10 (though some people do like a #1, no matter how many were made...)

Predator vs. Magnus #1 - #2 (the trade paperback is another story... keep the trade.)

Psi-Lords #1 - #5 (Oh lord, sigh.)

Rai #9 - #20 (What's that you see? 84 copies of #11? Yeah, we all do.)

Second Life of Dr. Mirage #1 - #6 (No second life in the back issue bins.)

Secret Weapons #1 - #8 (Not a secret if they're more common than a phone book.)

Shadowman #9 - #20 (#16 is the first Dr. Mirage, and #19 has Aerosmith... but common, so common...)

Solar #16 - #32 (#19 looks like Lawnmower Man. 'member him? I 'member!)

Turok #1 - #10 (so many Turok #1... so, so many...)

X-O Manowar #9 - #35 (and #0 is pretty cool, first full chromium cover in comics history, but no one needs 100 extra copies...)

 

There's no guarantee that other books outside of this list are in demand, but they are less likely to be taking up a ton of space (literally) in your boxes.

 

So, if you've got these books in a longbox or twelve and you're waiting for some Valiant fan to get excited... you'll be waiting a very, very, very long time. Like the witches in Monty Python's Holy Grail, you might as well build a bridge out of 'em.

[01TheDude]

I recall bronze age marvel books being called garbage/dime a dozen books in the late1980s. Now maybe it was just a dealer trying to grab my collection on the cheap but that seemed to be the overall sentiment about the books.

 

Granted the shear volume of 1990s drek books far exceeds what was output in the 1970s. Over time what I noticed with the 1970s books was that the supply of those book in decent grade continued to drop as people tended to treat them with very little respect-- sometimes not even bother to bag them let alone board them.

 

Now it will be a huge leap to see that happen with the massive amount of books from the 1990s-- and in no way am I saying they are the same quality art/writing/stories etc-- but at some point in the distant future, mostly through attrition, some of these books might start seeing some demand. The question is will anyone who was collecting from that era-- talking mostly kids of course-- be collectors and desire the books? Seems sort of unlikely but many said that about the bronze books too.

 

For me-- the last great era of collecting happened in the late 1970s. You still had the news stand distribution, the books weren't terribly expensive, and computers had not really taken over the entertainment field yet. Subsequent changes tot he way they were made and distributed may have been necessary from an industry standpoint-- but it seems like it diminished the way these books were bought mostly by kids.

 

Just my take and I'm certain others have varying viewpoints.

[the blob]

Still sitting on a small stack of duplicate Master of Kung Fus and Howard the Ducks, probably next to a couple of dozen Killravens, from late 70s that nobody would ever miss if it got pulped.

 

So, not absolute drek but relative drek, right?

 

All worth reading.

 

Gerber's Howard the Duck was absurd, surreal, subversive, inventive, that is, typical Steve Gerber. One of my favourite writers. The main criticism from a contemporary perspective is that it's a very dated product of its time, and nostalgically remembered by ageing comics fans, like myself.

 

Agree with what's already been said about MOKF.

 

Killraven / Amazing Adventures started out average, but later on had some interesting if extremely overwritten stories by Don McGregor, and P Craig Russell evolving into an incredibly talented comic artist.

 

All of them have redeeming qualities. Unlike Sonic Disruptors.

 

Yeah, these are not great current examples of drek. Frankly, any 70s books have probably moved out of the true drek pile at this point.

[valiantman]

I recall bronze age marvel books being called garbage/dime a dozen books in the late1980s. Now maybe it was just a dealer trying to grab my collection on the cheap but that seemed to be the overall sentiment about the books.

 

Granted the shear volume of 1990s drek books far exceeds what was output in the 1970s. Over time what I noticed with the 1970s books was that the supply of those book in decent grade continued to drop as people tended to treat them with very little respect-- sometimes not even bother to bag them let alone board them.

 

Now it will be a huge leap to see that happen with the massive amount of books from the 1990s-- and in no way am I saying they are the same quality art/writing/stories etc-- but at some point in the distant future, mostly through attrition, some of these books might start seeing some demand. The question is will anyone who was collecting from that era-- talking mostly kids of course-- be collectors and desire the books? Seems sort of unlikely but many said that about the bronze books too.

 

For me-- the last great era of collecting happened in the late 1970s. You still had the news stand distribution, the books weren't terribly expensive, and computers had not really taken over the entertainment field yet. Subsequent changes tot he way they were made and distributed may have been necessary from an industry standpoint-- but it seems like it diminished the way these books were bought mostly by kids.

 

Just my take and I'm certain others have varying viewpoints.

 

Good points. Specific to Valiant, the books are now 20 - 25 years old. There are specific issues (not on my list) which are bought and sold in strong volumes in the back issue market, even if they were also somewhat common. The books I included in my list are very rarely sought as individual issues, and the supply is extreme when compared to such a limited demand.

 

It's possible that there might be some future point where some of these books are in demand, however, it is also likely that the supply will still exceed even that potential demand.

[the blob]

Arak and Amethyst, Princess of Gemworld.

 

They were over purchased by the stores and put in the $.25 bins pretty quickly. They are unreadable. I put one on the bottom of my birdcage and my budgy began eating more. I used one for wrapping paper and the kid wouldn't open his gift. I put a box full of them at the curb and the garbage man forgot to pick up the rest of the garbage. I brought some down to the daycare and the kids all called in sick the next day. I tried scanning one of the covers and the glass on the scanner cracked.

 

I'm out.

 

Someone saw a speculation move with these:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-ct-UNREAD-NM-M-to-VF-DC-AMETHYST-Princess-of-Gemworld-1-Premiere-1983-/162249571091?hash=item25c6d3fb13%3Ag%3AAC4AAOSw44BYCxK3&nma=true&si=MWCRhdvf4M7KTm6zum%252BQIQzvOBc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

And only collectors-comics could get almost $10 for a raw copy of Arak #1 (plus $4.50 shipping!)... they are geniuses..

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARAK-1-NEAR-MINT-9-8-NM-1st-app-Angelica-Son-of-Thunder-DC-Comics-/351848918497?hash=item51ebd46de1:g:IykAAOSwNRdX4z9A

[Ken Aldred]

 

 

 

[drakesfuture]

A little while ago, I tried to get the help of our fellow boardies to build a list of comics that no one would miss if we burned or recycled every copy. This is what we came up with:

 

Adventures of Spence Spook (Ace Comics)

Alien Legion (Marvel)

Bloodstrike (Image)

Boof (Image)

Bozz Chronicles (Marvel)

Brute Force (Marvel)

Captain Confederacy (Steel Dragon Press)

Charlie the Caveman (Fantasy General Comics)

Cold Blooded Chameleon Commandos (Blackthorne)

COPS (DC)

Ex-Mutants (Eternity Comics)

Ferret (Malibu)

Hamster Vice (Blackthorne)

Justice Machine - excluding Annual 1 (Texas Comics)

Kickers, Inc. (Marvel)

New Talent Showcase (DC)

Nomad - excluding the Punisher/Daredevil crossover (Marvel)

The One (Epic)

P.I.s, Michael Malister and Ms. Tree (First Comics)

Pork Knight (Silver Snail Comics)

Power Pachyderms (Marvel)

Pre-teen dirty gene kung fu Kangaroos (Blackthorne)

Ripper (Aircel)

Secret Defenders (Marvel)

Sisterhood of Steel (Epic)

Sonic Disruptors (Marvel)

Sovereign Seven (DC)

Star Brand (Marvel/New Universe)

Steeltown Rockers (Marvel)

Sun Devils (DC)

Team America (Marvel)

Twisted Tantrums of the Purple Snit (Blackthorne)

Whiz Kids (Radio Shack)

Word Smith (Renegade Press)

Reagan's Raiders (Solson)

Sonic Disruptors (DC)

Tribe (Image)

Youngblood #2+ (Image)

 

Charlton war titles

Defiant Comics

Lightning Comics

 

 

I agree with most of this list.

 

But...I personally really like;

 

Alien Legion: I have almost a full run of the first two volumes plus the prestige format series that came out after and I read them over and over.

 

Captain Confederacy: I know it's weird, but go back and read these. They are shockingly well written.

 

Ferret: I always liked Wolverine.

 

Secret Defenders: Ok. It's not good, but this is another series I re read. I like the hodge podge of characters mixed together.

 

Sisterhood of Steel: This is another one that just has great writing. Give it a try. You can pick the whole series up for a couple bucks.

 

Defiant Comics: I LOVE Defiant Comics. In fact I LOVE everything Shooter did after leaving Marvel.

 

Anyone want to send me any of their landfill copies of any of these I would be happy to take them.

[Gatsby77]

I wouldn't be a very good "valiantman" if I didn't point out the weaker aspects of the publisher when it comes to the "drek" discussion.

 

While the stories were mostly good throughout Valiant in the 1990s, the earlier books (1991-1992) were "best", which meant the glut of books published in the "mid-years" (1993-1994) are still filling longboxes at comic shops around the country and giving Valiant a bad name.

 

~1993-1994 Valiant books which qualify as "drek" even if the stories were OK, simply due to the abundance of supply:

(because even the Valiant fanatics don't need anymore copies, even if they're free)

Archer & Armstrong #9 - #20 (if marijuana is legal in your state, you might hang on to #11)

Armorines #1 - #6 (unless that #0 has a Timewalker ad on the back cover, you can toss it, too.)

Bloodshot #2 - #15 (at least #1 is first chromium book in comics history, even if it is common.)

Deathmate (this is at least half Image's fault)

Eternal Warrior #9 - #20 (but #9 has the Book of the Geomancer! Yes, but how many do you need?)

Harbinger #12 - #28 (some possible value in #14-#15 due to first appearances, but not in the past 20+ years)

H.A.R.D.Corps #2 - #15 (H.A.R.D. to sell)

Magnus #22 - #35 (#25 is shiny silver-ish, and probably worth a shiny silver-ish nickel.)

Ninjak #1 - #10 (though some people do like a #1, no matter how many were made...)

Predator vs. Magnus #1 - #2 (the trade paperback is another story... keep the trade.)

Psi-Lords #1 - #5 (Oh lord, sigh.)

Rai #9 - #20 (What's that you see? 84 copies of #11? Yeah, we all do.)

Second Life of Dr. Mirage #1 - #6 (No second life in the back issue bins.)

Secret Weapons #1 - #8 (Not a secret if they're more common than a phone book.)

Shadowman #9 - #20 (#16 is the first Dr. Mirage, and #19 has Aerosmith... but common, so common...)

Solar #16 - #32 (#19 looks like Lawnmower Man. 'member him? I 'member!)

Turok #1 - #10 (so many Turok #1... so, so many...)

X-O Manowar #9 - #35 (and #0 is pretty cool, first full chromium cover in comics history, but no one needs 100 extra copies...)

 

There's no guarantee that other books outside of this list are in demand, but they are less likely to be taking up a ton of space (literally) in your boxes.

 

So, if you've got these books in a longbox or twelve and you're waiting for some Valiant fan to get excited... you'll be waiting a very, very, very long time. Like the witches in Monty Python's Holy Grail, you might as well build a bridge out of 'em.

 

Counter-argument.

 

Many of these books are actually good, even if worthless.

 

Yes - there's a cabal of long-time Valiant collectors that consider most post-Unity books to be drek because they _never_ had value back in the day -- and yes -- the print runs were artificially inflated by 5-10x for many of the books listed above.

 

But while they are / will forever be worthless doesn't mean they were _all_ bad.

 

Specifically, I'll defend:

 

Eternal Warrior # 9-20. This series was consistent all the way through, and this run includes some great stories featuring the Immortal Enemy and Master Darque.

 

Harbinger 12-25. Ditto - the core of this run. Maybe nothing as impactful as Torque's death, but 15 is an important Harada issue, and # 25 (with Pete vs. Harada) was an epic story and Valiant at it's apex.

 

H.A.R.D. Corps 2-15. Ditto - this series was consistent through-out. A Mission Impossible-style rotating team that chose both different personnel _and_ the powers they wielded specific for each mission.

 

(And I'm not just saying that because I won my Second Life of Dr. Mirage Gold from Bernard Chang for answering his trivia question, "Name 6 members of the H.A.R.D. Corps.")

 

Ninjak 1-10 - Sure - the art quality plummeted after Quesada left, but the story was consistent all the way through. And I'm probably the only person on earth pissed that the final storyline never finished.

 

Shadowman 9-20. This was when the series actually got _good_, with art by Bob Hall. And that says something, given that an earlier issue had art by some guy named Steve Ditko.

 

Turok 1-10. We go from great Bart Sears art to great Rags Morales art. Yeah - Morales only became a star years later with Identity Crisis but his Turok run was great.

 

Finally, X-O's my favorite Valiant character. That said, there's little to defend in this portion of the run.

 

Oh -- except # 14-15, with the Turok team-up and arguably Bart Sears' best cover ever on # 14.

 

 

Worthless? Yes.

 

But devoid of value and drek? Hell no.

 

[porcupine48]

 

 

Terrible..but I love them,they make me laugh.

 

[NoMan]

 

 

 

Those look awesome!

[the blob]

 

 

 

Those look awesome!

 

They're not drek if they would be gone from a $3 box by the end of a show.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

 

Someone saw a speculation move with these:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-ct-UNREAD-NM-M-to-VF-DC-AMETHYST-Princess-of-Gemworld-1-Premiere-1983-/162249571091?hash=item25c6d3fb13%3Ag%3AAC4AAOSw44BYCxK3&nma=true&si=MWCRhdvf4M7KTm6zum%252BQIQzvOBc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

From the eBay listing:

 

These books are part of a lot of abandoned retail stock that had been in storage since it was new.

[Ken Aldred]

 

 

 

Those look awesome!

 

Yup. Something starts to look so awesomely bad that it's no longer the drek that it was a few decades ago.