Variants

[Tony59]

Friends,

This is the first forum board I have ever joined, no matter the subject matter. So if I have stepped on anyone's toys, please forgive me it was unintentional.

 

I have a major help request. I have looked high and low for information on population of TMNT #1 IDW 11/2011 Jetpack Variant Cover except this cover went viral-variant. This cover was an error recall due to the comic having an orange cover when in fact it was suppose to have a rich red color. They (Jetpack), received 400 books but all were damaged in shipment from severe damage to moderate damage. Early on when this all went down, I bought a book from their better grouping. It scored a PGX 9.6 and Jetpack wrote me informing me this put the comic in a group of fewer than 100 pcs in that elevated grade.

 

I have come to CGC trying to see if there is any population reports and I could not locate any and PGX says this is the highest they have graded and the only one they have graded.

 

TMNT #1 Jetpack Comics Variant Cover IDW 8/11 (Error Edition) front cover color error graded on 10/16. The assigned serial number is 501195678

 

If anyone has any information on this edition or knows where I need to go to research, please hit me in the head with a dead fish. I respond quickly that way!

 

Cheery Christmas Greetings!!!

 

Walter

[CBT]

Friends,

This is the first forum board I have ever joined, no matter the subject matter. So if I have stepped on anyone's toys, please forgive me it was unintentional.

 

I have a major help request. I have looked high and low for information on population of TMNT #1 IDW 11/2011 Jetpack Variant Cover except this cover went viral-variant. This cover was an error recall due to the comic having an orange cover when in fact it was suppose to have a rich red color. They (Jetpack), received 400 books but all were damaged in shipment from severe damage to moderate damage. Early on when this all went down, I bought a book from their better grouping. It scored a PGX 9.6 and Jetpack wrote me informing me this put the comic in a group of fewer than 100 pcs in that elevated grade.

 

I have come to CGC trying to see if there is any population reports and I could not locate any and PGX says this is the highest they have graded and the only one they have graded.

 

TMNT #1 Jetpack Comics Variant Cover IDW 8/11 (Error Edition) front cover color error graded on 10/16. The assigned serial number is 501195678

 

If anyone has any information on this edition or knows where I need to go to research, please hit me in the head with a dead fish. I respond quickly that way!

 

Cheery Christmas Greetings!!!

 

Walter

 

CGC 9.8 SS is highest in census

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/census/grades_standard.asp?title=Teenage+Mutant+Ninja+Turtles&publisher=IDW+Publishing&issue=1&year=2011&issuedate=8%2F11

 

 

PS - PGX is garbage, and i say that not being a CGC fanboy.

 

[Doktor]

Serious question... besides the multiple covers for X-Men 1 and the different cards in the bags for X-Force 1, what "variants" were there in the 90's? Gimmicks, sure... they were all over the place. Chrome or hologram covers of this (because Chrome was cool so everyone would want it, right?) random issue #2 or #17 or whatever of some book to spike sales? Sure. Those were an issue, because they were based on the faulty assumption that the gimmick would retain value.

 

But what ACTUAL variants (as in, there's a regular version and there's a different, read: variant version as well) were there that contributed to the 90's crash?

 

I ask because I just have never understood this narrative. I always felt that the Heroes World debacle, the endless missed shipped dates on superstar creator Image titles, the void of talent left at the Big 2, and a few other serious problems were much bigger contributors to the 90's crash than a handful of variants that existed in the 90's.

 

Collector's editions, Foil Editions, etc etc

 

Remember, the print-runs dwarfed everything we have today. You dont need10 variants to sell more copies, when a single variant can add several hundred thousand to the print run.

 

In the 90s and now, variants dont make the publishers extra money as a more expensive 'product', the publisher makse the same from each book, regardless of the cover. The only goal of variants is to move as many "units" as possible, with each unit being of equal cost and value to the publisher.

 

In the 90s, when demand ended, stores were left with unsellable inventory, and they just got out of comics as quickly as they had gotten in (remember number of stores surged on the way up, collapsed on the way down)

 

In the current variant bubble, the publishers have managed to get the retailers in on the gimmick. 1:X variants cost the publisher AND the store, the same prices as a regular cover. The idea being, the store can sell the one limited variant for a high price and extremely high margin, and is covered from the danger of having to also buy X regular covers. The variant pays for all of the order (and maybe even profit above that if its a good one), and then all the other regular issues the store sells are pure profit and free to them so it doesnt matter if they cant get rid of them all.

 

 

Unlike last time where stores ate it when the bubble collapsed, here the collectors will be the ones who eat the biggest losses as the variant values collapse. Stores might still lose a lot of customers but they wont be on the hook for big inventories. In the 90s, the new stores ate those big losses on inventory, and also did it on credit from distributors which is why the distributors all went bankrupt as well and only Diamond is left.

 

The 1:X variants protect the publisher, distributor, and store from inventory and credit risks, while distributing all the risk to the collectors who buy the variants.

 

Exactly the point I was hinting at. The 90's didn't have "variants", they had gimmicks on random issues to bump sales, but left the retailers on the hook if things didn't sell.

 

The modern variant model is completely different, in that the retailers can make up the cost of most of the inventory that allowed them to buy the variants on the sale of the variants alone. So between the pull list copies sold & the variants sold at a mark-up, all the extra inventory is essentially pure profit when/if sold. And any retailer with a good ordering model can do no worse than break even on most of their orders just by selling the variants & their pull list copies, so that even if the rest of the order sits on the shelf, they're not sitting on expensive inventory.

 

But those "collectors editions" or "foil editions" were the ONLY editions of 95% of those books. It was a #1 Collectors Item gimmick, not a variant. The foil books were the only version of that book, unless you count newsstand. Sure, there were a handful of them that were released with a foil variant and a regular version, but looking only at the direct market, probably 95% of the books were gimmicks, not variants. And very few of those books that had an actual variant were big titles (X-Men 1's 5 covers, X-Force 1's identical covers with different cards in the bag, and a few others)

 

95% in favour of enhanced only? Not a chance. Not even close. Sure, many issues had only enhanced covers, but many, many issues had both enhanced and regular covers.

 

Huh? I never said anyone was in favor of anything. I said that 95% of the books with "enhanced" covers released didn't have a corresponding non-enhanced version released in the direct market.

 

But please kindly note some of them. Because outside of Marvel's short run of their "deluxe" and standard phase (which had no change to the exterior of the product except for the "deluxe" label near the price box, and a different paper quality for the inside), I can probably rattle off 20 issues with "enhanced" covers that didn't have a respective non-enhanced cover that was released to the direct market for every example you give of a book released in the 90's that had an "enhanced" variant that corresponded to a non-enhanced regular edition.

 

But please keep the examples restricted to the direct market only. I'm not talking about newsstand vs direct market differences. That's a whole other topic.

 

 

Sure, we can ignore Marvel's "Deluxe" mutant phase for the purposes of this comparison.

 

Action Comics 687, 695

Adventures of Superman 500, 501, 505

Amazing Spider-Man 388, 390, 394, 400

Batman 500, 515, 530-532, 550

Batman: Shadow of the Bat 35

Detective Comics 675, 682, 700

Flash (v.2) 80, 100

Green Lantern (v.3) 81

Guy Gardner: Warrior 29

Incredible Hulk 418, 425

Robin 1, 14

Robin II (The Joker's Wild) 1-4

Robin III: Cry of the Huntress 1-6

Spectacular Spider-Man 213, 217, 223, 225, 229

Spider-Man 1, 46, 50, 51, 57

Superman (v.2) 75, 78, 82, 100, 123

Superman: The Man of Steel 22, 30

Superman: The Wedding Album

Uncanny X-Men 316, 317, 325, 350, 360

Web of Spider-Man 113, 117, 125

Wonder Woman (v.2) 100

X-Factor 100, 106

X-Force 38, 50

X-Men (v.2) 1, 36, 37, 45, 50, 80

 

This is obviously nowhere near a complete list, but if you can give me a list of 1400 enhanced-only issues, I'll actually look and find some more.

 

Here, I'll get you started:

Amazing Spider-Man 365, 375

Excalibur 71

Incredible Hulk 393, 400

Uncanny X-Men 304

Wolverine 75

X-Factor 92

X-Force 25

X-Men (v.2) 25

X-O Manowar 0

and don't forget Lobo 1

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, as a number of the books you listed as having both enhanced & non-enhanced versions were books where the enhanced was the direct market & the non-enhanced versions were newsstand. We obviously have different definitions of variant. That's fine. But I'm not interested in the newsstand versions for this variant discussion. I'm talking strictly direct market. It seems as though you're happy to qualify any book that had both enhanced & non-enhanced versions as meeting your criteria of variants, even if the 2 versions were each sold to separate markets.

 

That's fine. I will just continue to disagree, since I don't consider non-enhanced newsstand editions as a traditional "variant". Or a "non-enhanced option" or whatever that you'd see sitting next to the "enhanced" version in the comic shop, which is kinda the point you're arguing. That these were something that drove people away and I disagree with that. Because if you walked into the majority of comic shops out there in 1994 or whatever to buy one of those books that had an enhanced cover, 95% of the time, there's no non-enhanced version sitting next to it or available in that store. You had to go to the grocery store & dig thru their spinner or magazine rack to find the non-enhanced version.

 

But if you want some more for that 2nd list, I'll add the following just out of books that I bought (somewhat stupidly) back then:

 

UXM 300

Punisher War Zone 1

Sabertooth 1

Deadpool Circle Chase 1

All of those Reign of the Supermen 1st issues

All of the Spider-Man 30th anniversary issues

Avengers 360, 363, 366, 369

All those #1 Marvel 2099 books

ASM 388 & 400 (questionable as there was a white & a grey one, but they were both "enhanced")

Generation X 1

Wolverine 50 & 100

Punisher 75 & 86

Venom 1

Web of Spider-Man 100, 117 & 125

 

off the top of my head, the hundreds of enhanced-only Valiant like Turok and early Image books like Bloodstrike, Brigade, Deathblow, Wildcats, Cyberforce & dozens more. However I'm still not including books that had a non-foil newsstand version in this list, even if you keep putting it on yours.

[jreezy]

I do think the sketch cover SS books are interesting.

 

Sketch covers should not be considered variants as they are essentially original art. The detail on some sketch covers rival full blown 11x17s commissions these days in terms of detail and quality.

 

Something unique being done to them after distribution doesn't change the fact that they are "blank" variants.

 

 

You are the first person I've ever encountered to call original art/sketches on a blank cover a variant. Very interesting.

[bababooey]

I do think the sketch cover SS books are interesting.

 

Sketch covers should not be considered variants as they are essentially original art. The detail on some sketch covers rival full blown 11x17s commissions these days in terms of detail and quality.

 

Something unique being done to them after distribution doesn't change the fact that they are "blank" variants.

 

 

You are the first person I've ever encountered to call original art/sketches on a blank cover a variant. Very interesting.

You're misreading it. He's saying even if it's never sketched on it's still a blank variant cover.

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

it is interesting to say sketches on covers are variants (blank or not). I don't know who says what a "variant" is. It's typically the same book but with a different cover, so I guess it fits the definition.

 

Sooo, if it isn't a blank cover do they call it a "remark" instead of a "sketch", or how is a remark different than a sketch...?

 

I think it would also be interesting if it wasn't a blank cover, instead of a "remark or sketch" if it would be possible to have a comic "book" and pay the commision and have a character drawn to fit the action on the actual original (or variant) "book". Then would it be more of a variant

 

I think that is basically what remarks and sketches are. I've never seen it drawn to interact with the art on the comic though, I'm not even sure that their allowed to do that

[jreezy]

I do think the sketch cover SS books are interesting.

 

Sketch covers should not be considered variants as they are essentially original art. The detail on some sketch covers rival full blown 11x17s commissions these days in terms of detail and quality.

 

Something unique being done to them after distribution doesn't change the fact that they are "blank" variants.

 

 

You are the first person I've ever encountered to call original art/sketches on a blank cover a variant. Very interesting.

You're misreading it. He's saying even if it's never sketched on it's still a blank variant cover.

 

I am not misreading. I get it.

 

However, sketch cover collectors don't buy "blank variants' because they are a variant. They buy the original artwork that is sketched on the blank.

[Lazyboy]

Serious question... besides the multiple covers for X-Men 1 and the different cards in the bags for X-Force 1, what "variants" were there in the 90's? Gimmicks, sure... they were all over the place. Chrome or hologram covers of this (because Chrome was cool so everyone would want it, right?) random issue #2 or #17 or whatever of some book to spike sales? Sure. Those were an issue, because they were based on the faulty assumption that the gimmick would retain value.

 

But what ACTUAL variants (as in, there's a regular version and there's a different, read: variant version as well) were there that contributed to the 90's crash?

 

I ask because I just have never understood this narrative. I always felt that the Heroes World debacle, the endless missed shipped dates on superstar creator Image titles, the void of talent left at the Big 2, and a few other serious problems were much bigger contributors to the 90's crash than a handful of variants that existed in the 90's.

 

Collector's editions, Foil Editions, etc etc

 

Remember, the print-runs dwarfed everything we have today. You dont need10 variants to sell more copies, when a single variant can add several hundred thousand to the print run.

 

In the 90s and now, variants dont make the publishers extra money as a more expensive 'product', the publisher makse the same from each book, regardless of the cover. The only goal of variants is to move as many "units" as possible, with each unit being of equal cost and value to the publisher.

 

In the 90s, when demand ended, stores were left with unsellable inventory, and they just got out of comics as quickly as they had gotten in (remember number of stores surged on the way up, collapsed on the way down)

 

In the current variant bubble, the publishers have managed to get the retailers in on the gimmick. 1:X variants cost the publisher AND the store, the same prices as a regular cover. The idea being, the store can sell the one limited variant for a high price and extremely high margin, and is covered from the danger of having to also buy X regular covers. The variant pays for all of the order (and maybe even profit above that if its a good one), and then all the other regular issues the store sells are pure profit and free to them so it doesnt matter if they cant get rid of them all.

 

 

Unlike last time where stores ate it when the bubble collapsed, here the collectors will be the ones who eat the biggest losses as the variant values collapse. Stores might still lose a lot of customers but they wont be on the hook for big inventories. In the 90s, the new stores ate those big losses on inventory, and also did it on credit from distributors which is why the distributors all went bankrupt as well and only Diamond is left.

 

The 1:X variants protect the publisher, distributor, and store from inventory and credit risks, while distributing all the risk to the collectors who buy the variants.

 

Exactly the point I was hinting at. The 90's didn't have "variants", they had gimmicks on random issues to bump sales, but left the retailers on the hook if things didn't sell.

 

The modern variant model is completely different, in that the retailers can make up the cost of most of the inventory that allowed them to buy the variants on the sale of the variants alone. So between the pull list copies sold & the variants sold at a mark-up, all the extra inventory is essentially pure profit when/if sold. And any retailer with a good ordering model can do no worse than break even on most of their orders just by selling the variants & their pull list copies, so that even if the rest of the order sits on the shelf, they're not sitting on expensive inventory.

 

But those "collectors editions" or "foil editions" were the ONLY editions of 95% of those books. It was a #1 Collectors Item gimmick, not a variant. The foil books were the only version of that book, unless you count newsstand. Sure, there were a handful of them that were released with a foil variant and a regular version, but looking only at the direct market, probably 95% of the books were gimmicks, not variants. And very few of those books that had an actual variant were big titles (X-Men 1's 5 covers, X-Force 1's identical covers with different cards in the bag, and a few others)

 

95% in favour of enhanced only? Not a chance. Not even close. Sure, many issues had only enhanced covers, but many, many issues had both enhanced and regular covers.

 

Huh? I never said anyone was in favor of anything. I said that 95% of the books with "enhanced" covers released didn't have a corresponding non-enhanced version released in the direct market.

 

But please kindly note some of them. Because outside of Marvel's short run of their "deluxe" and standard phase (which had no change to the exterior of the product except for the "deluxe" label near the price box, and a different paper quality for the inside), I can probably rattle off 20 issues with "enhanced" covers that didn't have a respective non-enhanced cover that was released to the direct market for every example you give of a book released in the 90's that had an "enhanced" variant that corresponded to a non-enhanced regular edition.

 

But please keep the examples restricted to the direct market only. I'm not talking about newsstand vs direct market differences. That's a whole other topic.

 

 

Sure, we can ignore Marvel's "Deluxe" mutant phase for the purposes of this comparison.

 

Action Comics 687, 695

Adventures of Superman 500, 501, 505

Amazing Spider-Man 388, 390, 394, 400

Batman 500, 515, 530-532, 550

Batman: Shadow of the Bat 35

Detective Comics 675, 682, 700

Flash (v.2) 80, 100

Green Lantern (v.3) 81

Guy Gardner: Warrior 29

Incredible Hulk 418, 425

Robin 1, 14

Robin II (The Joker's Wild) 1-4

Robin III: Cry of the Huntress 1-6

Spectacular Spider-Man 213, 217, 223, 225, 229

Spider-Man 1, 46, 50, 51, 57

Superman (v.2) 75, 78, 82, 100, 123

Superman: The Man of Steel 22, 30

Superman: The Wedding Album

Uncanny X-Men 316, 317, 325, 350, 360

Web of Spider-Man 113, 117, 125

Wonder Woman (v.2) 100

X-Factor 100, 106

X-Force 38, 50

X-Men (v.2) 1, 36, 37, 45, 50, 80

 

This is obviously nowhere near a complete list, but if you can give me a list of 1400 enhanced-only issues, I'll actually look and find some more.

 

Here, I'll get you started:

Amazing Spider-Man 365, 375

Excalibur 71

Incredible Hulk 393, 400

Uncanny X-Men 304

Wolverine 75

X-Factor 92

X-Force 25

X-Men (v.2) 25

X-O Manowar 0

and don't forget Lobo 1

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, as a number of the books you listed as having both enhanced & non-enhanced versions were books where the enhanced was the direct market & the non-enhanced versions were newsstand. We obviously have different definitions of variant. That's fine. But I'm not interested in the newsstand versions for this variant discussion. I'm talking strictly direct market. It seems as though you're happy to qualify any book that had both enhanced & non-enhanced versions as meeting your criteria of variants, even if the 2 versions were each sold to separate markets.

 

That's fine. I will just continue to disagree, since I don't consider non-enhanced newsstand editions as a traditional "variant". Or a "non-enhanced option" or whatever that you'd see sitting next to the "enhanced" version in the comic shop, which is kinda the point you're arguing. That these were something that drove people away and I disagree with that. Because if you walked into the majority of comic shops out there in 1994 or whatever to buy one of those books that had an enhanced cover, 95% of the time, there's no non-enhanced version sitting next to it or available in that store. You had to go to the grocery store & dig thru their spinner or magazine rack to find the non-enhanced version.

 

But if you want some more for that 2nd list, I'll add the following just out of books that I bought (somewhat stupidly) back then:

 

UXM 300

Punisher War Zone 1

Sabertooth 1

Deadpool Circle Chase 1

All of those Reign of the Supermen 1st issues

All of the Spider-Man 30th anniversary issues

Avengers 360, 363, 366, 369

All those #1 Marvel 2099 books

ASM 388 & 400 (questionable as there was a white & a grey one, but they were both "enhanced")

Generation X 1

Wolverine 50 & 100

Punisher 75 & 86

Venom 1

Web of Spider-Man 100, 117 & 125

 

off the top of my head, the hundreds of enhanced-only Valiant like Turok and early Image books like Bloodstrike, Brigade, Deathblow, Wildcats, Cyberforce & dozens more. However I'm still not including books that had a non-foil newsstand version in this list, even if you keep putting it on yours.

 

No, you just have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

All of the books I listed had different Direct Market versions, with the newsstand market receiving one of those versions (and often, that was the enhanced version). Do you need pictures?

[MetalPSI]

Serious question... besides the multiple covers for X-Men 1 and the different cards in the bags for X-Force 1, what "variants" were there in the 90's? Gimmicks, sure... they were all over the place. Chrome or hologram covers of this (because Chrome was cool so everyone would want it, right?) random issue #2 or #17 or whatever of some book to spike sales? Sure. Those were an issue, because they were based on the faulty assumption that the gimmick would retain value.

 

But what ACTUAL variants (as in, there's a regular version and there's a different, read: variant version as well) were there that contributed to the 90's crash?

 

I ask because I just have never understood this narrative. I always felt that the Heroes World debacle, the endless missed shipped dates on superstar creator Image titles, the void of talent left at the Big 2, and a few other serious problems were much bigger contributors to the 90's crash than a handful of variants that existed in the 90's.

 

Collector's editions, Foil Editions, etc etc

 

Remember, the print-runs dwarfed everything we have today. You dont need10 variants to sell more copies, when a single variant can add several hundred thousand to the print run.

 

In the 90s and now, variants dont make the publishers extra money as a more expensive 'product', the publisher makse the same from each book, regardless of the cover. The only goal of variants is to move as many "units" as possible, with each unit being of equal cost and value to the publisher.

 

In the 90s, when demand ended, stores were left with unsellable inventory, and they just got out of comics as quickly as they had gotten in (remember number of stores surged on the way up, collapsed on the way down)

 

In the current variant bubble, the publishers have managed to get the retailers in on the gimmick. 1:X variants cost the publisher AND the store, the same prices as a regular cover. The idea being, the store can sell the one limited variant for a high price and extremely high margin, and is covered from the danger of having to also buy X regular covers. The variant pays for all of the order (and maybe even profit above that if its a good one), and then all the other regular issues the store sells are pure profit and free to them so it doesnt matter if they cant get rid of them all.

 

 

Unlike last time where stores ate it when the bubble collapsed, here the collectors will be the ones who eat the biggest losses as the variant values collapse. Stores might still lose a lot of customers but they wont be on the hook for big inventories. In the 90s, the new stores ate those big losses on inventory, and also did it on credit from distributors which is why the distributors all went bankrupt as well and only Diamond is left.

 

The 1:X variants protect the publisher, distributor, and store from inventory and credit risks, while distributing all the risk to the collectors who buy the variants.

 

Exactly the point I was hinting at. The 90's didn't have "variants", they had gimmicks on random issues to bump sales, but left the retailers on the hook if things didn't sell.

 

The modern variant model is completely different, in that the retailers can make up the cost of most of the inventory that allowed them to buy the variants on the sale of the variants alone. So between the pull list copies sold & the variants sold at a mark-up, all the extra inventory is essentially pure profit when/if sold. And any retailer with a good ordering model can do no worse than break even on most of their orders just by selling the variants & their pull list copies, so that even if the rest of the order sits on the shelf, they're not sitting on expensive inventory.

 

But those "collectors editions" or "foil editions" were the ONLY editions of 95% of those books. It was a #1 Collectors Item gimmick, not a variant. The foil books were the only version of that book, unless you count newsstand. Sure, there were a handful of them that were released with a foil variant and a regular version, but looking only at the direct market, probably 95% of the books were gimmicks, not variants. And very few of those books that had an actual variant were big titles (X-Men 1's 5 covers, X-Force 1's identical covers with different cards in the bag, and a few others)

 

95% in favour of enhanced only? Not a chance. Not even close. Sure, many issues had only enhanced covers, but many, many issues had both enhanced and regular covers.

 

Huh? I never said anyone was in favor of anything. I said that 95% of the books with "enhanced" covers released didn't have a corresponding non-enhanced version released in the direct market.

 

But please kindly note some of them. Because outside of Marvel's short run of their "deluxe" and standard phase (which had no change to the exterior of the product except for the "deluxe" label near the price box, and a different paper quality for the inside), I can probably rattle off 20 issues with "enhanced" covers that didn't have a respective non-enhanced cover that was released to the direct market for every example you give of a book released in the 90's that had an "enhanced" variant that corresponded to a non-enhanced regular edition.

 

But please keep the examples restricted to the direct market only. I'm not talking about newsstand vs direct market differences. That's a whole other topic.

 

 

Sure, we can ignore Marvel's "Deluxe" mutant phase for the purposes of this comparison.

 

Action Comics 687, 695

Adventures of Superman 500, 501, 505

Amazing Spider-Man 388, 390, 394, 400

Batman 500, 515, 530-532, 550

Batman: Shadow of the Bat 35

Detective Comics 675, 682, 700

Flash (v.2) 80, 100

Green Lantern (v.3) 81

Guy Gardner: Warrior 29

Incredible Hulk 418, 425

Robin 1, 14

Robin II (The Joker's Wild) 1-4

Robin III: Cry of the Huntress 1-6

Spectacular Spider-Man 213, 217, 223, 225, 229

Spider-Man 1, 46, 50, 51, 57

Superman (v.2) 75, 78, 82, 100, 123

Superman: The Man of Steel 22, 30

Superman: The Wedding Album

Uncanny X-Men 316, 317, 325, 350, 360

Web of Spider-Man 113, 117, 125

Wonder Woman (v.2) 100

X-Factor 100, 106

X-Force 38, 50

X-Men (v.2) 1, 36, 37, 45, 50, 80

 

This is obviously nowhere near a complete list, but if you can give me a list of 1400 enhanced-only issues, I'll actually look and find some more.

 

Here, I'll get you started:

Amazing Spider-Man 365, 375

Excalibur 71

Incredible Hulk 393, 400

Uncanny X-Men 304

Wolverine 75

X-Factor 92

X-Force 25

X-Men (v.2) 25

X-O Manowar 0

and don't forget Lobo 1

 

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, as a number of the books you listed as having both enhanced & non-enhanced versions were books where the enhanced was the direct market & the non-enhanced versions were newsstand. We obviously have different definitions of variant. That's fine. But I'm not interested in the newsstand versions for this variant discussion. I'm talking strictly direct market. It seems as though you're happy to qualify any book that had both enhanced & non-enhanced versions as meeting your criteria of variants, even if the 2 versions were each sold to separate markets.

 

That's fine. I will just continue to disagree, since I don't consider non-enhanced newsstand editions as a traditional "variant". Or a "non-enhanced option" or whatever that you'd see sitting next to the "enhanced" version in the comic shop, which is kinda the point you're arguing. That these were something that drove people away and I disagree with that. Because if you walked into the majority of comic shops out there in 1994 or whatever to buy one of those books that had an enhanced cover, 95% of the time, there's no non-enhanced version sitting next to it or available in that store. You had to go to the grocery store & dig thru their spinner or magazine rack to find the non-enhanced version.

 

But if you want some more for that 2nd list, I'll add the following just out of books that I bought (somewhat stupidly) back then:

 

UXM 300

Punisher War Zone 1

Sabertooth 1

Deadpool Circle Chase 1

All of those Reign of the Supermen 1st issues

All of the Spider-Man 30th anniversary issues

Avengers 360, 363, 366, 369

All those #1 Marvel 2099 books

ASM 388 & 400 (questionable as there was a white & a grey one, but they were both "enhanced")

Generation X 1

Wolverine 50 & 100

Punisher 75 & 86

Venom 1

Web of Spider-Man 100, 117 & 125

 

off the top of my head, the hundreds of enhanced-only Valiant like Turok and early Image books like Bloodstrike, Brigade, Deathblow, Wildcats, Cyberforce & dozens more. However I'm still not including books that had a non-foil newsstand version in this list, even if you keep putting it on yours.

 

No, you're just have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

 

All of the books I listed had different Direct Market versions, with the newsstand market receiving one of those versions (and often, that was the enhanced version). Do you need pictures?

 

Dunno about anyone else, but I love picture comparisons

[Lazyboy]

Okay, a few pictures:

 

 

 

 

 

[MetalPSI]

[Doktor]

Alright. Fair enough. Maybe it's not 95% but it's still a majority. I just picked a number out of the air anyway to make the point. Most books that had enhanced & non-enhanced versions were books where the enhanced wen to direct market and non-enhanced wen to newsstand. And there are still a boatload of books that had ONLY an enhanced version. They were predominantly gimmick covers, not variant covers is the point I'm still sticking with.

[kevhtx]

That said, I'm somewhat annoyed the Thunderbolts #7 Checchetto 1:25 variant was featured on CBI. I pre-ordered mine from DCBS for $12 but it's still not in my shipping list (whereas the regular cover already is) so I'm thinking DCBS may not have enough stock. When I checked ebay last night, the lone copy was already going for $34 on auction.

 

That book is going to do well. Low print, beautiful cover and the guy has talent.

[aerischan]

That said, I'm somewhat annoyed the Thunderbolts #7 Checchetto 1:25 variant was featured on CBI. I pre-ordered mine from DCBS for $12 but it's still not in my shipping list (whereas the regular cover already is) so I'm thinking DCBS may not have enough stock. When I checked ebay last night, the lone copy was already going for $34 on auction.

 

That book is going to do well. Low print, beautiful cover and the guy has talent.

It certainly seems to be doing well short term but I honestly can't predict how well this is going to do long term. Artwork is beautiful, to be sure. That's why I preordered it (just doesn't seem like my preorder's gonna get filled). However, the title and the characters featured (Winter Soldier/Bucky and Kobik) aren't really super popular, and I'd rate the actual content as maybe 7/10. If not for the CBSI mention, demand probably wouldn't be there. That said, price might remain high and will probably even get a boost with the Thunderbolts 20th anniversary in February.

 

Personally though, not willing to spend more than $20 on this (inclusive of shipping) much less $100. The variant would have been nice to add to my personal collection but not at the same price as 25-50 regular issues. Heck, even $20 is equivalent to 10 DC Rebirth issues with preorder discount.

 

I regret not adding this to my Black Friday Midtown Comics order when I had the chance. Since I had already preordered through DCBS, I didn't bother. Oh well, lesson learned. Next time, I'm not gonna rely on DCBS for chase variants. Will get them from Midtown instead.

[kevhtx]

I think the longevity of it will be tied to the cover artist.

[Lazyboy]

Alright. Fair enough. Maybe it's not 95% but it's still a majority.

 

Maybe a slight majority. (Does anybody have the actual numbers?)

 

I just picked a number out of the air anyway to make the point.

 

Please don't. We have enough problems here with people inventing ridiculous numbers to make their point (whether generally valid or not) sound better.

 

Most books that had enhanced & non-enhanced versions were books where the enhanced wen to direct market and non-enhanced wen to newsstand.

 

Still no. I can only think of a handful of Image books that fit that description.

 

And there are still a boatload of books that had ONLY an enhanced version.

 

Yes.

 

They were predominantly gimmick covers, not variant covers is the point I'm still sticking with.

 

I know your main point from your original post was that variants didn't crash the market in the 90s, which is at least mostly true. I just wanted to clear up your misconceptions about variants and gimmicks.

[aerischan]

That book is going to do well. Low print, beautiful cover and the guy has talent.

I regret not adding this to my Black Friday Midtown Comics order when I had the chance. Since I had already preordered through DCBS, I didn't bother. Oh well, lesson learned. Next time, I'm not gonna rely on DCBS for chase variants. Will get them from Midtown instead.

Just received an email from DCBS. I'm happy.

 

We were shorted on our order for Now Thunderbolts #7 Chechetto Var by our distributor and are currently waiting on replacements. When they arrive, yours will be included in your next available shipment.

 

Thank you for your business! Please let us know if you have any questions.

 

Latest ebay listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THUNDERBOLTS-7-MARCO-CHECHETTO-VARIANT-1-25-Marvel-Comics-NM-/112229562667?hash=item1a2167392b:g:OncAAOSw6DtYSGLx

 

Crazy. Wonder what the price will end up in a year when it's not the flavor of the month anymore.

[drotto]

I do buy the occasional variant, but it has to fulfill these criteria most of the time.

 

1. I have to prefer the cover to the main cover.

2. It needs to be at or near regular cover price.

 

The second is there because I have gotten mildly burned at times and payed more than a cover was worth. I have never paid what I consider a sky high price. Luckily my LCS has most variants priced at cover and is first come first serve on them. He will occasionally put a premium on, but it is rare. He also does not order to get chase variants. He orders what he needs, and any special covers are a bonus.

[aerischan]

I do buy the occasional variant, but it has to fulfill these criteria most of the time.

 

1. I have to prefer the cover to the main cover.

2. It needs to be at or near regular cover price.

 

The second is there because I have gotten mildly burned at times and payed more than a cover was worth. I have never paid what I consider a sky high price. Luckily my LCS has most variants priced at cover and is first come first serve on them. He will occasionally put a premium on, but it is rare. He also does not order to get chase variants. He orders what he needs, and any special covers are a bonus.

I've never felt burned on any variant purchases given I treat them as expenses and not investments. I don't mind if a variant is priced higher than cover but I do tend to have a price limit ($15-20 or around the same as a movie ticket and some popcorn). Even then, I carefully consider how much I desire the variant versus what other stuff I can buy with the money (typically more comics or TPBs for actual reading). I'm very new to American comics and have years worth of reading to catch up on so I find it hard to spend money on a variant when I can buy a TPB/collected volume (or multiple TPBs/volumes) for the same price as a variant of a single issue.