General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[october]

1) Raw ASM 122 VF - asking $150

 

2) Raw ASM 122 VF - asking $150 - GPA Average at $155, high price set last month at $199!!![/b]

 

Do you really not see the difference?

Yeah, I see the difference and it's huge - 2) gives me much more information on which to base my decision to pull the trigger or not and makes me an informed buyer. Thanks for helping me make the point we're all trying to get across here with a perfectly succinct example! (thumbs u

 

That's just crazy Mike. The difference is someone quoting sell prices for something he/she is not selling. It's invalid hype to justify a high selling price pure and simple...

 

Jim

 

So if Nik, Nick, Banner, etc used GPA prices for their raw books, it would be invalid hype? People pay a premium for slabs because they know (more or less) exactly what they are getting. Trusted dealers garner a similar premium for raw books for the same reason. If Telepath sells you a 9.2, chance are it's a 9.2. If some geek off the street uses GPA to hype his overgraded krap, then I agree with you. If someone who knows how to grade uses it, I think it's valid.

 

No one has even mentioned the fact that pricing raw high grade books would be nearly impossible without GPA. If I want to sell a raw 9.4 copy of Flash 136, where do I look if I am not supposed to use GPA? The OSPG? It doesn't go that high and would be useless anyway. Yes, I do use GPA for raw sales, and occasionally quote it. Several very savvy forum members (including at least one Overstreet Advisor) have been happy to pay those prices because they know my grading is solid. Most times I discount off the true GPA price for the time and cost associated with slabbing, but not always if the book is truly scarce in grade. Before you ask, there are several reasons I don't slab all of my high grade books, but the most important are that I can't be out the money and time while I am still in school. I need quick sales.

[Transplant]

My little ole thread did all this?

 

I like how JC is glossing over his initial statements that he was confused at the quoting of GPA since he equated that to selling CGC slabs. Now, it's transformed into whether the pricing is deceptive. Jim, awe4one, has declared that quoting GPA is immoral and unethical.

 

By logical extension of JC's and others' arguments, if I quote OPG it's raw and if I quote GPA it's slabbed? I pass over plenty of threads where I felt pricing was out of whack, especially if a raw book is priced at GPA. Many times, I will consider that, especially with HG, the seller might be off by a grade and that the price needs to reflect the cost of slabbing (fees, postage). If I felt it was deceptive, I might PM the seller.

 

But in the case of certain books, like the MH copy of Wambi I bought from pennynike1, where I can get a big scan or really trust the seller's grading, I will pay closer to GPA prices.

 

Personally, I quoted GPA prices b/c I felt that most people look to GPA when dealing with HG bronze books. I do. Over 9.2 on Bronze HG and OPG is basically useless. I then discounted accordingly from those prices. I also offer returns so I'm not sure how a buyer will be out?

 

I think the marketplace usually sorts this stuff out. Bad grading = few buyers. Bad pricing = few buyers, especially here.

[Annihilus]

Once again, we're not talking about what price the seller is asking, but the tactic (quoting GPA price alongside) he or she is using to PROMOTE their raw book sales.

 

It's not a difficult concept to grasp, but it seems to be eluding many people on here.

 

No, it's not eluding people (at least not me). As a buyer, GPA is only one of many criteria one can use to determine a price (either the buyer or the seller).

 

It's kind of like someone using the price of a used car listed in the Kelly Blue Book for a car that's been totalled in an accident. Just because you quote the price listed in the KBB, the buyer can tell by looking at the car that the price is not applicable to that certain car.

 

At least, that's how I see it. I know I'm not confused if someone lists GPA for a book that is not slabbed. Maybe some are, I apologize if that's the case. :shrug:

[MCMiles]

Personally, I find some of the sales pitches in the threads a little annoying, but as long as the information being posted is found to be true and accurate, I don't see a problem with it. Even if the information is from a source that some find to be inaccurate, as long as it is reported accurately.

 

Are sellers usually going to only report the information that helps thier goal? Of course. Like it or not, it really is up to the buyer to make an educated decision as to wether or not to purchase based on the given information, or information obtained by the buyers own research. A buyer has got to use all resources and try to make an educated decision about the market. Would it be noble for all sellers to freely give negative as well as positive information about thier product for sale? Yes, but it isn't going to happen, nor do I think it should be expected.

 

On another note, excluding books that don't come for sale up that often, I think the only reason raw books sometimes sell nearly as high raw as if slabbed is because of the gamblers out there. Look at Zillaf4.

 

BTW, I don't think Transplants thread had much of a "sales pitch". I actually think it was well constructed on his part to get what might be the maximum amount without having to undergo the task of submitting the books himself. It also left the buyers with some room to profit if they slab the books and the grades are accurate.

 

[Transplant]

 

BTW, I don't think Transplants thread had much of a "sales pitch". I actually think it was well constructed on his part to get what might be the maximum amount without having to undergo the task of submitting the books himself. It also left the buyers with some room to profit if they slab the books and the grades are accurate.

Spoken like a man who took my 9.4 and slabbed it a 9.6. I still miss that beauty of a book. Knowing what I know now, I'm surprised it didn't get a 9.8.

[Forbush-Man]

Wether a seller quotes GPA or OSPG value, the buyer (me) will determine the market by what he/she is willing to pay. They're both used as measurements, so quote away as far as I'm concerned. (thumbs u

[awe4one]

Jim, awe4one, has declared that quoting GPA is immoral and unethical.

 

Never said that. Those are your words...

 

Hey, you can price at whatever levels you want. But to list the price of slabbed copies to justify your raw price isn't necessary nor appropriate.

 

You could take the perspective that by doing so you're not confident on what you're pricing the comic at in the first place and feel the need for some additional reinforcement, regardless of it's relevency, to justify it...

 

Jim

[Transplant]

Jim, awe4one, has declared that quoting GPA is immoral and unethical.

 

Never said that. Those are your words... You're right was being a little over the top, thus the

 

Hey, you can price at whatever levels you want. But to list the price of slabbed copies to justify your raw price isn't necessary nor appropriate. I'm not sure I've heard a case for why not. Isn't CGC's purpose to engender trust in a book's stated grade? Between my experience grading, scans and a money-back guaranty, can't I assert that my grade sensitive pricing is appropriate?

 

You could take the perspective that by doing so you're not confident on what you're pricing the comic at in the first place and feel the need for some additional reinforcement, regardless of it's relevency, to justify it...

 

Jim

Personally, I don't mind pricing a little higher here. I'm confident in my pricing but will negotiate as well.

[Monstro]

how can you quote GPA prices that reference CGC'd books when your friggin book is ungraded by CGC. end of story.

 

i mean why not just buy a gradded book in the first place. what fool would pay slabbed prices for raw books in the first place. oops, did i just say that out loud.

 

 

 

[Transplant]

how can you quote GPA prices that reference CGC'd books when your friggin book is ungraded by CGC. end of story.

 

i mean why not just buy a gradded book in the first place. what fool would pay slabbed prices for raw books in the first place. oops, did i just say that out loud.

I quoted GPA b/c I feel it's the more accurate guide for HG bronze books. My prices weren't equal to GPA, they were less than GPA.

[october]

i mean why not just buy a gradded book in the first place. what fool would pay slabbed prices for raw books in the first place. oops, did i just say that out loud.

 

Find me nice copies of any of the tough golden age books on my wantlist and I will pay over GPA. Not everyone collects common silver through modern, some collectors are happy to just FIND a copy of the book they want.

[awe4one]

Between my experience grading, scans and a money-back guaranty, can't I assert that my grade sensitive pricing is appropriate?[/b]

 

Sure...if you want to compare it to other tight raw grader's pricing. To compare it with CGC slabbed copies? No...

 

Jim

[Monstro]

i mean why not just buy a gradded book in the first place. what fool would pay slabbed prices for raw books in the first place. oops, did i just say that out loud.

 

Find me nice copies of any of the tough golden age books on my wantlist and I will pay over GPA. Not everyone collects common silver through modern, some collectors are happy to just FIND a copy of the book they want.

 

that fine, just don't quote GPA

[Monstro]

not about the buyer, it's about the seller

[VintageComics]

how can you quote GPA prices that reference CGC'd books when your friggin book is ungraded by CGC. end of story.

 

i mean why not just buy a gradded book in the first place. what fool would pay slabbed prices for raw books in the first place. oops, did i just say that out loud.

 

 

 

Don't know if you did, but you should read the entire discussion as a lot of these things were touched upon...most raw sales that are outside the scope of Overstreet quote GPA as a guide only and then arrange a price that takes into account slabbing fees etc.

 

It's usually just a starting point, that's all. Lot's of people do pay GPA prices for raw books if they are tougher to find.

 

Keep in mind that quoting GPA for a $20 book is not really worth the trouble, but on a $100 or $200 + book it becomes more and more relevant.

 

An extreme example would be if someone where selling a key whether it is GA or SA. They are almost all undervalued in guide so why would I use OSPG to price them? I guess what I am trying to say is that GPA is very close to what is "going on out there" at cons and between dealers and collectors and that is why it is quoted. It's easy access, fairly accurate info that applys to many but not all book sales....and remember this qualifier: *as long as the grade is accurate*

 

 

R.

 

 

[VintageComics]

not about the buyer, it's about the seller

 

It's actually about the seller and buyer finding a good price point between them so that neither person feels like they got hosed.

 

[october]

i mean why not just buy a gradded book in the first place. what fool would pay slabbed prices for raw books in the first place. oops, did i just say that out loud.

 

Find me nice copies of any of the tough golden age books on my wantlist and I will pay over GPA. Not everyone collects common silver through modern, some collectors are happy to just FIND a copy of the book they want.

 

that fine, just don't quote GPA

 

Why would I quote GPA, I am looking to BUY them.

[Monstro]

the only possible situation to me that is understandable is what october is talking about, a rare book that would be very difficult to find a graded copy otherwise

[Monstro]

i mean why not just buy a gradded book in the first place. what fool would pay slabbed prices for raw books in the first place. oops, did i just say that out loud.

 

Find me nice copies of any of the tough golden age books on my wantlist and I will pay over GPA. Not everyone collects common silver through modern, some collectors are happy to just FIND a copy of the book they want.

 

that fine, just don't quote GPA

 

Why would I quote GPA, I am looking to BUY them.

 

read up a few posts i said it's about the seller not the buyer

[october]

i mean why not just buy a gradded book in the first place. what fool would pay slabbed prices for raw books in the first place. oops, did i just say that out loud.

 

Find me nice copies of any of the tough golden age books on my wantlist and I will pay over GPA. Not everyone collects common silver through modern, some collectors are happy to just FIND a copy of the book they want.

 

that fine, just don't quote GPA

 

Why would I quote GPA, I am looking to BUY them.

 

read up a few posts i said it's about the seller not the buyer

 

What are you talking about? You said the buyer would have to be a fool to pay GPA for a raw book. I explained why that isn't true.