General discussion thread - keep the other threads clean 29 29

[skypinkblu]

BTW, this is all moot, it's up to the Mods, the sales rules are their thread. They might agree with you :shrug:...only time will tell.

[Bio-Rupp]

The only thing any comic book "is" is a comic book.

 

Doesn't matter if its in plastic, tin foil, petroleum jelly or peanut butter.

[Green]

The only thing any comic book "is" is a comic book.

 

Doesn't matter if its in plastic, tin foil, petroleum jelly or peanut butter.

True. How about, you cannot change the last person who was able to properly grade the book.

[Bio-Rupp]

The only thing any comic book "is" is a comic book.

 

Doesn't matter if its in plastic, tin foil, petroleum jelly or peanut butter.

True. How about, you cannot change the last person who was able to properly grade the book.

 

Who determines that sir? Who determines who is the last person to do this?

 

If all books were properly 3rd party graded then there would be no chance for any upgrades by cracking slabs would there? No chance.

 

Grading is subjective. Not just by company or person... but by each time a book is handled and graded. Doesn't matter who grades it... or even how many times the same person grades it.

[Green]

The only thing any comic book "is" is a comic book.

 

Doesn't matter if its in plastic, tin foil, petroleum jelly or peanut butter.

True. How about, you cannot change the last person who was able to properly grade the book.

 

Who determines that sir? Who determines who is the last person to do this?

 

If all books were properly 3rd party graded then there would be no chance for any upgrades by cracking slabs would there? No chance.

 

Grading is subjective. Not just by company or person... but by each time a book is handled and graded. Doesn't matter who grades it... or even how many times the same person grades it.

But there is nothing subjective about the last person who was able to look at the inside of the front cover. I didnt mean that the grade was the proper grade, but that the last time the book was in a state (raw) that it could be fully examined it was done so by pgx. Edited December 26, 2011 by Green

[Bosco685]

If you have an alternate suggestion for wording, as I keep saying, or trying to say;) present it.

 

Okay, let's see how this works for the masses.

 

The rules it seems we wish to recommend modifications to are the following:

 

1. Books must be CGC or raw only, or items directly related to comics.

 

7. List scans or information about the grade of the offered books.

 

For Rule 1, I suggest keeping it very simple.

 

================

1. Books must be CGC or raw only, or items directly related to comics. No other third-party grading company books (e.g. PGX) will be sold on this forum.

================

 

For Rule 7, we will want to take the two scenarios into consideration (book-in-hand; pre-arrival sale).

 

================

7. List scans or information about the grade of the offered books. In the even the book is graded/encased by CGC, a scan or picture is mandatory of the label. If the book is in-hand, a picture/scan of the label must be posted within the same day of the sale listing. In the event of a pre-arrival sale (still being finalized at CGC), either a scan must be purchased from CGC and posted in the sales thread or there is an agreement between the seller and the buyer a completed sale cannot be finalized until the required picture is provided within one (1) week of receipt of the book from CGC.

================

 

The main concern with the last sentenance is what if the seller receives an offer without conditions of a photo. Of course, this should not be allowed as the scan/photo of the label is an across-the-board rule, and not something that should be dismissed to remove the burden on the seller to confirm CGC grading.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Okay, now what's the issues with these suggestions other than a lot of historical bad blood and other noise?

 

I'd rather stick to the point. And just saying "CGC books require pictures" does not clarify the scenario of selling books pre-arrival. Yet this happens quite often on here. So not a rare scenario.

[faster friends]

No pre-sales...

[Bosco685]

No pre-sales...

 

I'd have to agree. But it would take more than two (or three with Nick/FT) to change that practice.

[Bio-Rupp]

This could also be applied to any "post press" estimated grades and the sale of those books as well.

 

When does it end?

[Green]

If you have an alternate suggestion for wording, as I keep saying, or trying to say;) present it.

 

Okay, let's see how this works for the masses.

 

The rules it seems we wish to recommend modifications to are the following:

 

1. Books must be CGC or raw only, or items directly related to comics.

 

7. List scans or information about the grade of the offered books.

 

For Rule 1, I suggest keeping it very simple.

 

================

1. Books must be CGC or raw only, or items directly related to comics. No other third-party grading company books (e.g. PGX) will be sold on this forum.

================

 

For Rule 7, we will want to take the two scenarios into consideration (book-in-hand; pre-arrival sale).

 

================

7. List scans or information about the grade of the offered books. In the even the book is graded/encased by CGC, a scan or picture is mandatory of the label. If the book is in-hand, a picture/scan of the label must be posted within the same day of the sale listing. In the event of a pre-arrival sale (still being finalized at CGC), either a scan must be purchased from CGC and posted in the sales thread or there is an agreement between the seller and the buyer a completed sale cannot be finalized until the required picture is provided within one (1) week of receipt of the book from CGC.

================

 

The main concern with the last sentenance is what if the seller receives an offer without conditions of a photo. Of course, this should not be allowed as the scan/photo of the label is an across-the-board rule, and not something that should be dismissed to remove the burden on the seller to confirm CGC grading.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Okay, now what's the issues with these suggestions other than a lot of historical bad blood and other noise?

 

I'd rather stick to the point. And just saying "CGC books require pictures" does not clarify the scenario of selling books pre-arrival. Yet this happens quite often on here. So not a rare scenario.

I think the biggest against voice was that it is more work for an honest seller and if someone had the mindset to be sneaky before, this is unlikey to deter them.

[Bosco685]

I think the biggest against voice was that it is more work for an honest seller and if someone had the mindset to be sneaky before, this is unlikey to deter them.

On this I have to agree as well. Sneaks are going to be sneaks, rules or no rules.

 

But I'm also thinking of new members coming on here to honestly sell their books, and watching what others are doing to learn how they should handle themselves. These are the members that are most probably going to read the rules as well to avoid any hassles.

[Bio-Rupp]

The only thing any comic book "is" is a comic book.

 

Doesn't matter if its in plastic, tin foil, petroleum jelly or peanut butter.

True. How about, you cannot change the last person who was able to properly grade the book.

 

Who determines that sir? Who determines who is the last person to do this?

 

If all books were properly 3rd party graded then there would be no chance for any upgrades by cracking slabs would there? No chance.

 

Grading is subjective. Not just by company or person... but by each time a book is handled and graded. Doesn't matter who grades it... or even how many times the same person grades it.

But there is nothing subjective about the last person who was able to look at the inside of the front cover. I didnt mean that the grade was the proper grade, but that the last time the book was in a state (raw) that it could be fully examined it was done so by pgx OR CGC.

 

I added a little on there sir... both companies employ human beings and both companies have been documented to make mistakes. You can't argue that too can you?

[mschmidt]

I don't think it's a problem for you to deal with him, but not on the boards...

 

 

 

I would like for us to petition Arch to follow Jim's suggestion. Anyone who sells a graded book, in a case, must show the label.

 

Does anyone object?

 

Would a poll be better than just asking?

(thumbs u

 

I think that either the label should be shown or declaring that the book is CGC graded should suffice.

A declaration means nothing. The ones that crop the label out to circumvent the already established rules wouldn't have any problem declaring a book to be CGC graded when it isn't.

 

Maybe we don't need any new rules. We already have well established selling guidelines agreed on by the community. If a seller can't abide by the guidelines is the solution to add on more rules? Or should we just address the issue directly with the person who can't follow the rules? Phil is not new to the sales forum, he knows the rules, but apparently thinks they don't apply to him.

I don't see it as adding a new rule, just expanding a rule that's already in place. Showing a full scan, including the label, would eliminate the "is it PGX or isn't it" deliberations.

 

Doesn't need to be any more complex than this

 

If someone wants to try to bar pre-sales of books (eg. books that have been graded by CGC but aren't yet in the seller's hands), that is a different matter altogether and shouldn't be lumped in with Sharon's suggestion.

 

I personally have zero problems with pre-sales - it's allowed on eBay as well, as long as you give a timeline for when the item will be ready to ship :thumbsup:

[Bosco685]

The only thing any comic book "is" is a comic book.

 

Doesn't matter if its in plastic, tin foil, petroleum jelly or peanut butter.

True. How about, you cannot change the last person who was able to properly grade the book.

 

Who determines that sir? Who determines who is the last person to do this?

 

If all books were properly 3rd party graded then there would be no chance for any upgrades by cracking slabs would there? No chance.

 

Grading is subjective. Not just by company or person... but by each time a book is handled and graded. Doesn't matter who grades it... or even how many times the same person grades it.

But there is nothing subjective about the last person who was able to look at the inside of the front cover. I didnt mean that the grade was the proper grade, but that the last time the book was in a state (raw) that it could be fully examined it was done so by pgx OR CGC.

 

I added a little on there sir... both companies employ human beings and both companies have been documented to make mistakes. You can't argue that too can you?

I have personally experienced a situation with receiving a PGX Copper Age "beauty" as a birthday gift, cracking it out to submit to CGC, and discovering the "first printing" was really a second printing with water damage on the inside of the book. Then reading others going through the same situation - and hearing later about "Ryan the grader" bringing the encasement system home so he could grade the books through the night - I don't even put these two companies in the same class.

 

CGC has made some mistakes before in mislabeling a printing that gets mentioned quickly on this forum when caught. But never do I hear stories of wrong covers being married together and then inserted into a case as unrestored examples or color-touched books being passed off as pure. And the PGX signature program is a joke.

 

I think these points alone make a tremendous difference in comfort who I would trust when buying my books.

[Bio-Rupp]

The only thing any comic book "is" is a comic book.

 

Doesn't matter if its in plastic, tin foil, petroleum jelly or peanut butter.

True. How about, you cannot change the last person who was able to properly grade the book.

 

Who determines that sir? Who determines who is the last person to do this?

 

If all books were properly 3rd party graded then there would be no chance for any upgrades by cracking slabs would there? No chance.

 

Grading is subjective. Not just by company or person... but by each time a book is handled and graded. Doesn't matter who grades it... or even how many times the same person grades it.

But there is nothing subjective about the last person who was able to look at the inside of the front cover. I didnt mean that the grade was the proper grade, but that the last time the book was in a state (raw) that it could be fully examined it was done so by pgx OR CGC.

 

I added a little on there sir... both companies employ human beings and both companies have been documented to make mistakes. You can't argue that too can you?

I have personally experienced a situation with receiving a PGX Copper Age "beauty" as a birthday gift, cracking it out to submit to CGC, and discovering the "first printing" was really a second printing with water damage on the inside of the book. Then reading others going through the same situation - and hearing later about "Ryan the grader" bringing the encasement system home so he could grade the books through the night - I don't even put these two companies in the same class.

 

CGC has made some mistakes before in mislabeling a printing that gets mentioned quickly on this forum when caught. But never do I hear stories of wrong covers being married together and then inserted into a case as unrestored examples or color-touched books being passed off as pure. And the PGX signature program is a joke.

 

I think these points alone make a tremendous difference in comfort who I would trust when buying my books.

 

I hear you sir. Not saying one is better than the other or anywhere near equal. Just saying that human beings make mistakes. A famous micro trimming issue comes to mind.

[Bosco685]

I hear you sir. Not saying one is better than the other or anywhere near equal. Just saying that human beings make mistakes. A famous micro trimming issue comes to mind.

 

[Bosco685]

I don't think it's a problem for you to deal with him, but not on the boards...

 

 

 

I would like for us to petition Arch to follow Jim's suggestion. Anyone who sells a graded book, in a case, must show the label.

 

Does anyone object?

 

Would a poll be better than just asking?

(thumbs u

 

I think that either the label should be shown or declaring that the book is CGC graded should suffice.

A declaration means nothing. The ones that crop the label out to circumvent the already established rules wouldn't have any problem declaring a book to be CGC graded when it isn't.

 

Maybe we don't need any new rules. We already have well established selling guidelines agreed on by the community. If a seller can't abide by the guidelines is the solution to add on more rules? Or should we just address the issue directly with the person who can't follow the rules? Phil is not new to the sales forum, he knows the rules, but apparently thinks they don't apply to him.

I don't see it as adding a new rule, just expanding a rule that's already in place. Showing a full scan, including the label, would eliminate the "is it PGX or isn't it" deliberations.

 

Doesn't need to be any more complex than this

 

If someone wants to try to bar pre-sales of books (eg. books that have been graded by CGC but aren't yet in the seller's hands), that is a different matter altogether and shouldn't be lumped in with Sharon's suggestion.

 

I personally have zero problems with pre-sales - it's allowed on eBay as well, as long as you give a timeline for when the item will be ready to ship :thumbsup:

 

Wouldn't it be nice if all the rules we needed could be one sentenance: be good buyers and sellers.

 

Meanwhile, his recommendation only takes into consideration when you have the book available to post a picture - not pre-sales that didn't purchase a scan from CGC.

 

So just stating "always post a picture" leaves you wondering when. And nobody is banning pre-sales by defining how those should be handled without a picture.

 

(thumbs u

[mschmidt]

I don't think it's a problem for you to deal with him, but not on the boards...

 

 

 

I would like for us to petition Arch to follow Jim's suggestion. Anyone who sells a graded book, in a case, must show the label.

 

Does anyone object?

 

Would a poll be better than just asking?

(thumbs u

 

I think that either the label should be shown or declaring that the book is CGC graded should suffice.

A declaration means nothing. The ones that crop the label out to circumvent the already established rules wouldn't have any problem declaring a book to be CGC graded when it isn't.

 

Maybe we don't need any new rules. We already have well established selling guidelines agreed on by the community. If a seller can't abide by the guidelines is the solution to add on more rules? Or should we just address the issue directly with the person who can't follow the rules? Phil is not new to the sales forum, he knows the rules, but apparently thinks they don't apply to him.

I don't see it as adding a new rule, just expanding a rule that's already in place. Showing a full scan, including the label, would eliminate the "is it PGX or isn't it" deliberations.

 

Doesn't need to be any more complex than this

 

If someone wants to try to bar pre-sales of books (eg. books that have been graded by CGC but aren't yet in the seller's hands), that is a different matter altogether and shouldn't be lumped in with Sharon's suggestion.

 

I personally have zero problems with pre-sales - it's allowed on eBay as well, as long as you give a timeline for when the item will be ready to ship :thumbsup:

 

Wouldn't it be nice if all the rules we needed could be one sentenance: be good buyers and sellers.

 

Meanwhile, his recommendation only takes into consideration when you have the book available to post a picture - not pre-sales that didn't purchase a scan from CGC.

 

So just stating "always post a picture" leaves you wondering when. And nobody is banning pre-sales by defining how those should be handled without a picture.

 

(thumbs u

 

Sorry, Nick, I just don't see the need to force people to either buy a scan from CGC or to allow their buyers to post conditional take its (unless the seller wants to allow this).

 

Requiring a label scan of any slabbed book that is in hand, however, feels perfectly reasonable :thumbsup:

[Aces]

Pre-sales now?

What's that?

Does that mean a seller shouldn't list for sale books that are in transit from CGC and he's got the grades and all?

 

And...

 

I've always heard here buy the book not the label...

So why not sell the book not the label.

 

 

[Bosco685]

Pre-sales now?

What's that?

Does that mean a seller shouldn't list for sale books that are in transit from CGC and he's got the grades and all?

 

And...

 

I've always heard here buy the book not the label...

So why not sell the book not the label.

 

 

A pre-arrival is a situation where the book is supposed to still be at CGC being finalized, so not received yet. We have quite a few sellers that do this regularly.

 

So if a new member comes on here posting the same type sale, they would be perfectly fine in doing this with the current practice. Even those that may state the books are coming from CGC, but could be PGX encased.

 

If the label didn't matter to most, CGC would be out-of-business. So we know that isn't happening any time soon.