Getting silly... 0

[ygogolak]

14 hours ago, Lethal_Collector said:

A 1st app that isn't a storyline issue?   Anything to sell a book....

 

Jerome

Ridiculous.....

ooops

 

[valiantman]

6 hours ago, ygogolak said:

That's not them on the cover?

I'm not sure how people can argue Hulk 180 as a first appearance but a full blown cover is not.

You are kidding, right?

What was the outcome of the fight between Hulk and Wendigo in Hulk #180?  Which one won?  Neither... Wolverine showed up!

That's a comic book story.

 

What comic book story happens in Amazing Heroes #16?

[ygogolak]

17 minutes ago, valiantman said:

You are kidding, right?

What was the outcome of the fight between Hulk and Wendigo in Hulk #180?  Which one won?  Neither... Wolverine showed up!

That's a comic book story.

 

What comic book story happens in Amazing Heroes #16?

One panel vs. a cover? Yea, I'll take a cover.

Edited June 2, 2017 by ygogolak

[F For Fake]

2 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

One panel vs. a cover? Yea, I'll take a cover.

But it's not like a lot of "cameos" out there (Doomsday's fist, Venom's fist, someone in the shadows, etc.)  This is a full panel of the character, in full view, with his name. 181 is the first cover appearance, and it's the more popular book, but 180 is the first appearance, period.

[Ken Aldred]

3 minutes ago, F For Fake said:

But it's not like a lot of "cameos" out there (Doomsday's fist, Venom's fist, someone in the shadows, etc.)  This is a full panel of the character, in full view, with his name. 181 is the first cover appearance, and it's the more popular book, but 180 is the first appearance, period.

And it's copied from John Romita's original design sketch. Quite a definitive image there.

[Lazyboy]

24 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

One panel vs. a cover? Yea, I'll take a cover.

Good for you. There's nothing wrong with that, but the cover only exists to sell the book. The cover is not part of the story. Increasingly often, especially (but certainly not solely) due to variants, the cover isn't even related to the story.

[valiantman]

1 hour ago, ygogolak said:

One panel vs. a cover? Yea, I'll take a cover.

This isn't an argument about Hulk #180 vs. Hulk #181... you said that Amazing Heroes #16 was more of a first appearance than Hulk #180 because Amazing Heroes #16 has the New Mutants on the cover... the cover of a comic-book-shaped marketing brochure full of articles.

Unlike Hulk #180, I bet it had you on the edge of your seat wondering what happens next... fiscal quarter.

[ygogolak]

44 minutes ago, Lazyboy said:

Good for you. There's nothing wrong with that, but the cover only exists to sell the book. The cover is not part of the story. Increasingly often, especially (but certainly not solely) due to variants, the cover isn't even related to the story.

Yes, i.e. current market. Not only is it not story related, it may not even have the character in the story.

[ygogolak]

1 hour ago, F For Fake said:

But it's not like a lot of "cameos" out there (Doomsday's fist, Venom's fist, someone in the shadows, etc.)  This is a full panel of the character, in full view, with his name. 181 is the first cover appearance, and it's the more popular book, but 180 is the first appearance, period.

So say....some

[valiantman]

31 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

 

2 hours ago, F For Fake said:

But it's not like a lot of "cameos" out there (Doomsday's fist, Venom's fist, someone in the shadows, etc.)  This is a full panel of the character, in full view, with his name. 181 is the first cover appearance, and it's the more popular book, but 180 is the first appearance, period.

So say....some

 

You're kinda nuts in real life, too... aren't you. 

$657,000 for "not the first appearance of Wolverine" seems awfully expensive, but I guess you know more than the buyer... since you're a multi-billionaire who spends his time on a comic book message board pimping advertising brochures. 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/herb-trimpe-and-jack-abel-the-incredible-hulk-180-final-page-32-the-first-ever-appearance-of-wolverine-original/a/7093-92191.s

[ygogolak]

5 hours ago, valiantman said:

You're kinda nuts in real life, too... aren't you. 

$657,000 for "not the first appearance of Wolverine" seems awfully expensive, but I guess you know more than the buyer... since you're a multi-billionaire who spends his time on a comic book message board pimping advertising brochures. 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/herb-trimpe-and-jack-abel-the-incredible-hulk-180-final-page-32-the-first-ever-appearance-of-wolverine-original/a/7093-92191.s

I'm not pimping anything. I'm saying people can collect what they want but for some reason people feel the need to come on the internet and tell them they are wrong.

 

 

[valiantman]

11 hours ago, ygogolak said:

I'm not pimping anything. I'm saying people can collect what they want but for some reason people feel the need to come on the internet and tell them they are wrong.

Collectors:  "The first appearance of a character is when that character first appears in a comic."

Some guy with a book for sale: "The first appearance of a character is when the company puts out a "coming soon" advertisement in a catalog or marketing report, and here's mine for sale, and it's rare, and it's expensive because it's rare."

Collectors: "You're wrong about first appearances."

Some guy: "I'm being bullied!"

[ygogolak]

1 minute ago, valiantman said:

Collectors:  "The first appearance of a character is when that character first appears in a comic."

Some guy with a book for sale: "The first appearance of a character is when the company puts out a "coming soon" advertisement in a catalog or marketing report, and here's mine for sale, and it's rare, and it's expensive because it's rare."

Collectors: "You're wrong about first appearances."

Some guy: "I'm being bullied!"

Collector: I rule you drool!

[valiantman]

1 minute ago, ygogolak said:

3 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Collectors:  "The first appearance of a character is when that character first appears in a comic."

Some guy with a book for sale: "The first appearance of a character is when the company puts out a "coming soon" advertisement in a catalog or marketing report, and here's mine for sale, and it's rare, and it's expensive because it's rare."

Collectors: "You're wrong about first appearances."

Some guy: "I'm being bullied!"

Collector: I rule you drool!

Collectors:  This has been the rule for decades.

Some guy with a book for sale: But, I want to change that rule now because I have to sell this book because my grandma is having hip surgery tomorrow and the book is rare because I have one and no one else has one for sale right now because it's so expensive because I said so because I just changed the rule.

Collectors (in unison):  No.  Just no.

Some guy: You're mean, you're all like "what I collect rules and what you collect drools."  That's mean.

Collectors:  That's life.

[ygogolak]

47 minutes ago, valiantman said:

Collectors:  This has been the rule for decades.

Some guy with a book for sale: But, I want to change that rule now because I have to sell this book because my grandma is having hip surgery tomorrow and the book is rare because I have one and no one else has one for sale right now because it's so expensive because I said so because I just changed the rule.

Collectors (in unison):  No.  Just no.

Some guy: You're mean, you're all like "what I collect rules and what you collect drools."  That's mean.

Collectors:  That's life.

Yes, it has been that way for decades. I will agree. But the hobby is changing. People now want what is rare, hard to find, etc... to newer collectors / speculators / flippers, story content has gone to the back burner in terms of value.

Are there any mass printed storylines that hold value now? Batman New 52 and....

[valiantman]

6 minutes ago, ygogolak said:

Yes, it has been that way for decades. I will agree. But the hobby is changing. People now want what is rare, hard to find, etc... to newer collectors / speculators / flippers, story content has gone to the back burner in terms of value.

Are there any mass printed storylines that hold value now? Batman New 52 and....

There are definitely changes in this hobby.  Not just because of storylines, but because of TV, movies, toys, statues, video games, etc.

Value isn't the same thing as the first appearance.

The most valuable collectible for a comic character might be an advertisement, a comic, a novel, a statue, an action figure, a poster, or a video game.

But the first comic book appearance of a character is in a comic book.  

The comics hobby can't settle every character debate just by using comic books, but comic book debates are settled with comic books.

[Philflound]

Ads do help the value of books in some instances. Early Silver and Gold issues featuring super key books are noted on CGC labels. Rust #1 featured an ad for Spawn #1. Fanzines and preview mags like Marvel Age are noteworthy and may have a slight increase in value. But imo first appearance should be comic book story only, even if it's a cameo or backup story. That would be like saying you had a copy of a film preview reel promoting Star Wars 1977 be worth more than the actual movie itself.

[valiantman]

16 minutes ago, Philflound said:

Ads do help the value of books in some instances. Early Silver and Gold issues featuring super key books are noted on CGC labels. Rust #1 featured an ad for Spawn #1. Fanzines and preview mags like Marvel Age are noteworthy and may have a slight increase in value. But imo first appearance should be comic book story only, even if it's a cameo or backup story. That would be like saying you had a copy of a film preview reel promoting Star Wars 1977 be worth more than the actual movie itself.

Ads definitely help the value of books.  Detective Comics #15 with an ad for Action Comics #1 is definitely more valuable than Detective Comics #14 without anything about Action #1.  But there's no way Detective Comics #15 is going to overtake Action Comics #1 as the first apperance of Superman because collectors "suddenly figured it out" 80 years later.

Fans of ads and previews and other non-comic story appearances are definitely on the right track to finding hidden value where it hasn't been recognized.

Malibu Sun #13 should always be worth more than Malibu Sun #12, and anyone who finds them both selling for $1 should snatch the Malibu Sun #13 as fast as they possibly can.  

The majority of collectors aren't saying that ads should be worthless.  Malibu Sun #13 should be worth more than Malibu Sun #12.

The majority of collectors aren't saying that ads should always be worth less than first appearances.  Malibu Sun #13 is worth more than Spawn #1 because there are so many fewer Malibu Sun #13.

Don't confuse the refusal to redefine "first appearances" with the refusal of the idea that previews have some value.  Previews are something, but they aren't "the" thing.

[ygogolak]

Just picked up the first comic appearance of New Mutants!

 

 

Edited June 20, 2017 by ygogolak

[lizards2]

On 6/1/2017 at 7:39 PM, Ken Aldred said:

Don't forget the must-have Foom 2.

Essential addition to any Wolverine collection.

 

That's the one that came immediately to my mind.