Need advice on purchasing vast GA/SA collection

[Comcasthawk]

Why should I care that you bought multiple copies of book and now you can't get rid of them...

 

How's this scenario,....I have 25 NM copies of Amazing Fantasy #15. Now should I sell all 25 copies to you for 25% to 60% of guide because there are 25 copies and not just one...

 

You see, you want it both ways, don't you..?? You want to buy at percentage of guide, but in no way do you want to sell at percentage of guide!! Oh no, can't do that, can we.. Because we are the all-important dealer who must rack up the price to full "guide" because that's what dealers do..

 

I'm not insulting you or anyone else, you all have more expieriance than me obviously, but don't [#@$%!!!] to me that you bought books you can't sell and at the same time say you are justified in asking a guide price when said guide is actually a gouging of comic collectors setup by the dealers themselves who "advise" Overstreet!!

 

I think it's a con game and all this talk of CGC and the way "they grade" books above 9.0 is setting up the hobby, ala OPEC.

[BEAUMONTS]

UNCLE

[Comcasthawk]

I'm sorry, guys, I didn't mean to rant

 

But if people bought books as dealers and would sell them for a decent profit, more people would enter this field because it wouldn't be some damn costly!!!

 

I frequent shows in Philly and NYC and I don't understand seeing the same book at the same price 5 times a year!! Wouldn't it be better to move your stock and make "profit" now, then hold it and make none..??

 

Please, I don't want to fight, and maybe this is going on a tangent for me, but I do have respect for all people involved in comics, from dealer to collector.

[goldust40]

Why should I care that you bought multiple copies of book and now you can't get rid of them...

 

How's this scenario,....I have 25 NM copies of Amazing Fantasy #15. Now should I sell all 25 copies to you for 25% to 60% of guide because there are 25 copies and not just one...

 

AF 15 (in any grade, never mind NM) and Chaos In Calgary is like apples and oranges, as if it needed to be said.

 

Any dealer would pay a high percentage of guide for AF 15 in any grade, and a high percentage of actual market value for copies in VF and above.

 

Any dealer would pay a moderate percentage of guide for average books that all other dealers would have in their inventory, including Chaos In Calgary, which doesn't sell at guide (it can be STICKERED at guide, but it'll stay in the dealer's stock if it is).

 

Yes, dealers (AND THE MARKET!!!) want it both ways.

[FFB]

UNCLE

 

[Comcasthawk]

 

Yes, dealers (AND THE MARKET!!!) want it both ways.

 

It depends on what you consider "both ways". I don't mind an increase in a dealers selling price from his buying price. I expect that. What gets me is a dealer buying comic book XYZ from a source and moaning and crying about the difficulty of said books resale!!! Then in the same breath, attempt to sell this book to me at the so-called "guide price" when all the dealer wants is as much as he can get and use the guide price as his selling point to me, but not use the "guide price" when buying the book and/or books.

 

Why is book XYZ "worth less" when attatched to other books, but "worth more" when it stands alone... ?

[Rip]

Honestly I don't think "guide price" is set up by the dealers at all.

Its set by Bob Overstreet. Our Wacky Comic Overlord.

Read the first half of your Overstreet.

 

"Guide" is a mythical value that many tend to use as a multiple or fraction of. Dealers buy at a lower fraction and sell at a higher fraction. Is this any different from Coins Stamps, Toys, Dolls, Fine Art, etc etc.

 

Most dealers I know have a hard time selling low to mid grade books at "full guide" and the upper end prices are reflected even less by guide. Thats why we use GPA.

 

"I think it's a con game and all this talk of CGC and the way "they grade" books above 9.0 is setting up the hobby, ala OPEC. "

 

Maybe its because you don't understand the concept of grading or supply & demand.

[bullseye]

Why is book XYZ "worth less" when attatched to other books, but "worth more" when it stands alone... ?

 

Because there is this little notion called buying in bulk. When you go to Costco, or WinCo or whatever your local bulk/Dry Goods store is. People don't pay the same price for 20 pounds of something as they would for one at a regular gorcery. So basically, the more you buy the less it costs per item. The amount of money still keeps going up the percentage of "guide" or "retail" in the store is pretty much the same thing, if you don't like dealer markup, become a wholesaler and stop whining.

[Comcasthawk]

Gee, I guess all those pictures in the back of the guide are just for fun,huh..

 

Who are all those people...??

 

Why wouldn't they bump prices up....?? It's not like they are independant auditors now, is it...?

[Comcasthawk]

. The amount of money still keeps going up the percentage of "guide" or "retail" in the store is pretty much the same thing, if you don't like dealer markup, become a wholesaler and stop whining.

 

Actually, I don't whine.......I don't buy!!!!

[Rip]

I'm sorry is there a question here or just an assumption of a conspiracy??

Try reading the first part of your Overstreet. The mkt reports, you'll see all kinds of interesting information.

[bullseye]

You don't buy from stores? so you go to the library to post on the forums and live in the woods?

[Comcasthawk]

You don't buy from stores? so you go to the library to post on the forums and live in the woods?

 

Yes, but when I buy something in a store, it is in NM condition and there is no question of that!!

 

I don't go to a store and expect them not to make profit, but the difference between them and a dealer is that will lower prices to move stock, while a dealer will hold a book and complaign they can't sell it but never lower the price to move it....!!!!

 

Dealers are so happy to buy at 25% of "guide", but never to sell at 50% of "guide", even though that would show a profit of 100%!!!

 

Any regular business would love to make 100% profit, but not price gouging, guide happy dealers!!!

 

Face it, High grade and high end books are making the "hobby" insane because of this ............................................just my opinion and I hold no grudge against ne1 not agreeing with me.

 

I'm probably wrong, but I'll never admit it!!!

[Rip]

Dealers are so happy to buy at 25% of "guide", but never to sell at 50% of "guide", even though that would show a profit of 100%!!!

Any regular business would love to make 100% profit, but not price gouging, guide happy dealers!!!

Face it, High grade and high end books are making the "hobby" insane because of this ............................................just my opinion and I hold no grudge against ne1 not agreeing with me.

 

Try going to a comic book convention or your local comic store.

There's always 50% off sales. In fact I have a friend who never buys back issues at above 50% guide and always comes home with a huge stack.

[FFB]

Why is book XYZ "worth less" when attatched to other books, but "worth more" when it stands alone... ?

 

Because there is this little notion called buying in bulk. When you go to Costco, or WinCo or whatever your local bulk/Dry Goods store is. People don't pay the same price for 20 pounds of something as they would for one at a regular gorcery. So basically, the more you buy the less it costs per item. The amount of money still keeps going up the percentage of "guide" or "retail" in the store is pretty much the same thing, if you don't like dealer markup, become a wholesaler and stop whining.

 

[Forbush-Man]

I don't go to a store and expect them not to make profit, but the difference between them and a dealer is that will lower prices to move stock, while a dealer will hold a book and complaign they can't sell it but never lower the price to move it....!!!!

 

Dealers are so happy to buy at 25% of "guide", but never to sell at 50% of "guide", even though that would show a profit of 100%!!!

 

 

Actually, you are mistaken. My LCS, Southern California Comics, offers up to a 30% discount on books not marked "No Discount"; they range from Fine to VF- grade ranges. They also offer many books graded Good to Fine- at 50% off. Not all dealer's are willing to sit on their inventory & their assests.

 

You just need to shop around a little more.

 

As for the guide, it is just that: a guide. It is by no means a Bible for the market value.

[Forbush-Man]

Just a suggestion to you, Comcasthawk:

 

Rather than focussing on what Moondog or Rhino Comics say they are willing to pay for a large collection, focus on the reasons they describe for the prices, i.e. the reality of the prices they expect to have to sell the books in order to move them. This will give you an idea of the current going rate for those books/grades.

 

There's your guide values.

[the blob]

I have 50 9.4 - 9.8 (unslabbed, of course) copies of Thor 339 if you're interested as well. I'd be willing to go more than half under guide on those Simonson Thor classics.

 

And 20 9.4 - 9.8 Spawn 1s.

 

And another 50 Superman 204s, gorgeous, likely all 9.6+.

 

Never tried to sell these.

 

Maybe a 9.8 CGC pre-screen on the best 50 makes some sense.

[BassGMan]

I just read this whole thread, very interesting. Not so much because of the opportunity that EC has in buying the collection or the advice given, but from the standpoint that it has brought up a very informative debate between the viewpoints of dealers vs. collectors.

 

All I can say is to really understand this debate, you really need to have walked in the shoes (for a long time - not from just selling a few books on Ebay) of both sides. Collectors who just buy to hold and keep and have never actually entered the business of comic books will just not be able to understand the rules of supply and demand and effort and pricing and all the obstacles dealers always face when trying to make a profit and succeed in this business.

 

I realize that there are some scummy dealers out there looking to rip people off, but half of the complaints I see about dealers are simply due to the naive complaining about things they don't understand. I wish business and economic courses were a requirement in High School, and more than just one intro semester as this is real life stuff that everybody faces.

[Sharkey]

You don't buy from stores? so you go to the library to post on the forums and live in the woods?

 

Yes, but when I buy something in a store, it is in NM condition and there is no question of that!!

 

I don't go to a store and expect them not to make profit, but the difference between them and a dealer is that will lower prices to move stock, while a dealer will hold a book and complaign they can't sell it but never lower the price to move it....!!!!

 

Dealers are so happy to buy at 25% of "guide", but never to sell at 50% of "guide", even though that would show a profit of 100%!!!

 

Any regular business would love to make 100% profit, but not price gouging, guide happy dealers!!!

 

Face it, High grade and high end books are making the "hobby" insane because of this ............................................just my opinion and I hold no grudge against ne1 not agreeing with me.

 

I'm probably wrong, but I'll never admit it!!!

 

Hi Hawk,

 

I can't speak to your experience with your local shop or dealers but in general I think you're a little off base about dealers (or shop owners for that matter) not willing to discount off guide price. It's clear you've had some bad experiences and that's unfortunate. Most people I know are flexible and if you are willing to negotiate you can usually come to a reasonable compromise. Some (not all) who list books at full 100% guide will take less. If you go to a local shop or a show where the owner or dealer asks 100% guide for low grade or common material and won't budge, then shop around. Don't be afraid to ask if they'll take less. All they can say is no. No blood, no foul. Maybe they overpaid and really need to get 100% out of it. Maybe they're just a stubborn SOB and won't budge. And maybe, just maybe, they'll say "sure, I can come down in price on that." If you shop around you'll find a number of sellers who will gladly work with you on prices.

 

In one of my other posts I point out that many of the books a dealer purchases will have to be discounted considerably from guide price in order to sell, especially low-grade common issues, which typically make up the bulk of a collection. I frequently sell low and mid-grade Silver Age at anywhere from 20 to 40% off guide. If I list a VG copy of Fantastic Four 62 at full guide I'll sit on it for years. So I have two choices, discount it off guide and hope somebody bites, or after a while put it on ebay where it likely will bring 50% of guide or less. It's basic supply and demand. Low grade commons are common. Big supply. Unless there's high demand (like for a KEY issue) then the price will be low. Are there some dealers who manage to sell the books for full guide? Yes. That's called a free market system. Some people will pay full guide for a book. Some won't. The guide is set up to create a standard. But it is just a GUIDE not a MANDATE. That's what is so great about the collectibles market. Sometimes you can get a great deal just by asking. Try going into a retail clothing store and asking for a 25% discount off the sticker of those Deisel jeans. They'll laugh you out the door.

 

Now if somebody has a super high grade Silver or Gold book they are not going to be as likely to discount it. These are the books where they need to make their profit back because if they end up selling the common stuff discounted of guide (those are called "loss leaders" in bidness school) then they need to have a core of books that make up for the ones that don't make money or make a very slight profit. That's not exactly "having it both ways". The money has to be made somewhere. Higher grade material is less common and more in demand. There we go, back to our friends, Supply and Demand. Hence it will realize a higher price and will be less likely to require discounting to sell. It's got nothing to do with conspiracies or price fixing. Realistically, you won't be getting a 50% discount on hot, in-demand, or rare items.

 

Finally, remember, we're talking about purchasing a collection of mixed items, with 20 to 25% higher grades and the rest low grades and common issues. We're not talking about a collection of Amazing Fantasy 15s. I know plenty of dealers who won't buy the common stuff and will pull out the good stuff and offer a significatnly higher percent of guide for that, because they know they can sell it all at a decent price fairly quickly.

 

Bottom line is shop around. There are lots of shops, dealers, shows, auction sites, online stores, etc. If you can't find somebody who will work with you, then try someone else. I hope you find some "good dealers" who will change your view that we're all a bunch of greedy bastiches trying to rip everybody off. It just isn't true. Ok, well I'm a greedy bastich, but some of my best friends are dealers and they are reasonable people...

 

Now then, has the equine been sufficiently flogged?