The Poll you all Demanded! Boris! 0

[Bronty]

I noted this in another thread, but wanted to break the poll out into a fresh thread.

To my surprise the SSOC (Savage Sword of Conan) 4 cover went for 39k at clink the other day.   SSOC4 is not IMO a super strong image relative to some of the others.     Average?   In some ways its nice (nice babe at left) but there's also not so much going on, and the ape looks both too pensive (bollocks! I am about to perish!) and too human anatomically (looks like a purple weightlifter instead of an ape).

http://www.comiclink.com/auctions/item.asp?back=%2FAUCTIONS%2FALLSUB.ASP%3FFocused%3D1%26id%3D1398%26pg%3D8%23Item_1234667&id=1234667&itemType=1

It does imply that #1, which is quite a better image and would carry a premium for being #1, would have some real good value if the sale of #4 is not an outlier (which is does not seem to be in looking at past SSOC cover sales, as those were 20k or more ten years ago).   

Could #1 crack 100k if it were to sell?   Would this be the first 100k Boris painting?    Would tth2's head explode?

 

Edited March 10, 2018 by Bronty

[Bronty]

ah dang.    I posted this in Golden instead of Art.   Notifying Moderators on myself now! 

Please move the thread!

[PhilipB2k17]

Is the SSOC #1 Cover for sale somewhere? 

I’d argue that one of Boris’ Conan book covers would go that high. Maybe Freebooter? 

And I like SSOC #10 Cover a lot more than #4  

 

[The Voord]

10 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Is the SSOC #1 Cover for sale somewhere? 

I’d argue that one of Boris’ Conan book covers would go that high. Maybe Freebooter? 

And I like SSOC #10 Cover a lot more than #4  

 

SSOC 10 is pretty good.

Of the first 10 issues, # 5 is my fave.

Edited March 11, 2018 by The Voord

[vodou]

Agree SSOC #4 is not especially good. Would being #1 significantly increase the final hammer for that one? Not convinced. I prefer these non-SSOC barbaric images:

[Mephisto]

7 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

Is the SSOC #1 Cover for sale somewhere? 

I’d argue that one of Boris’ Conan book covers would go that high. Maybe Freebooter? 

And I like SSOC #10 Cover a lot more than #4  

 

Freebooter sold for $21K on Heritage less than 3 years ago.

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, Mephisto said:

Freebooter sold for $21K on Heritage less than 3 years ago.

Good price 

[PhilipB2k17]

4 hours ago, The Voord said:

SSOC 10 is pretty good.

Of the first 10 issues, # 5 is my fave.

The cover to SSOC #10 sold for $28,600 back in 2008. I’m guessing it goes higher than $39K now. 

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/covers/boris-vallejo-savage-sword-of-conan-10-cover-painting-original-art-marvel-1976-/a/829-41316.s

[buyatari]

Lots of Conan love going around these parts. 

I”d take the Vacation movie poster art over any one of them. 

[Bronty]

19 hours ago, vodou said:

Agree SSOC #4 is not especially good. Would being #1 significantly increase the final hammer for that one? Not convinced. I prefer these non-SSOC barbaric images:

 

 

I think the market would reward the #1 factor for the same reason it’s rewarding SSOC in the first place.   There is no image related reason whatsoever for ssoc 4 to go for double Freebooter price.    It’s just comic guys being comic guys and rewarding a notable 70s run.    Only natural they would further reward the #1..

[Bronty]

18 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

The cover to SSOC #10 sold for $28,600 back in 2008. I’m guessing it goes higher than $39K now. 

 

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/covers/boris-vallejo-savage-sword-of-conan-10-cover-painting-original-art-marvel-1976-/a/829-41316.s

Agree

[PhilipB2k17]

40 minutes ago, Bronty said:

I think the market would reward the #1 factor for the same reason it’s rewarding SSOC in the first place.   There is no image related reason whatsoever for ssoc 4 to go for double Freebooter price.    It’s just comic guys being comic guys and rewarding a notable 70s run.    Only natural they would further reward the #1..

I think the person who picked up the Freebooter cover for $21K got a steal, IMHO. GOOD Boris stuff should do well. Especially Good Boris CONAN stuff. I remember back in the day that Boris was considered right up there with Frazetta, before he started churning out a bunch of hacky cheese.

Any opinions on Rowena art?

Edited March 12, 2018 by PhilipB2k17

[vodou]

10 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I remember back in the day that Boris was considered right up there with Frazetta, before he started churning out a bunch of hacky cheese.

Boris was never considered "right up there with Frazetta" but many saw his future potential to "get there". Alas he took a hard right turn toward what the 80s editors were paying for in anticipation of that being what the market wanted (to increase sales on books, albums, etc). Hard to know who to blame, really, as Frazetta was already being considered  in some ways a quaint old form of savage by then and once one Boris beefcake item sold well that's all anybody wanted from him gofo. That he went along willingly (it seems), well...maybe he did (and does) have bad taste or maybe he was right there in defining and then pushing forward what he thought would be the style for the next thirty years?

The beefcake Boris, girls or guys, I skip every time but...he always did phenomenal foliage, backgrounds, non-human skin tones, etc. His multi-jawed monsters...you known, the ones that probably can't feed themselves...ugh.

[PhilipB2k17]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

Boris was never considered "right up there with Frazetta" but many saw his future potential to "get there". Alas he took a hard right turn toward what the 80s editors were paying for in anticipation of that being what the market wanted (to increase sales on books, albums, etc). Hard to know who to blame, really, as Frazetta was already being considered  in some ways a quaint old form of savage by then and once one Boris beefcake item sold well that's all anybody wanted from him gofo. That he went along willingly (it seems), well...maybe he did (and does) have bad taste or maybe he was right there in defining and then pushing forward what he thought would be the style for the next thirty years?

The beefcake Boris, girls or guys, I skip every time but...he always did phenomenal foliage, backgrounds, non-human skin tones, etc. His multi-jawed monsters...you known, the ones that probably can't feed themselves...ugh.

This is hindsight. At the time he was producing his best stuff, he was rated pretty highly. It turned pretty schlocky after that, and ruined his reputation. Also, I think the appreciation for Frazetta went up exponentially. So it was a combination of Boris' rep going way down, and Frazetta's going way up. But, for a time (in the late 70's to early 80's) Boris was considered "right up there" with Frazetta. Maybe not among art collectors, but among fans.

Edited March 12, 2018 by PhilipB2k17

[Bronty]

31 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

This is hindsight. At the time he was producing his best stuff, he was rated pretty highly. it turned pretty schlocky after that, and ruined his reputation. Also, I think the appreciation for Frazetta went up exponentially. Sio it was a combination of Boris' rep going way down, and Frazetta's going way up. But, for a time (in the late 70's to early 80's) Boris was considered "right up there" with Frazetta. Maybe not among art collectors, but among fans.

I think those are good comments.   I would add the following:

- the hard right turn in his art towards... not beefcake, because he did that very early on... but towards... stiff poses and flexing standing still, that sort of thing... happened right before and after he hooked up with Julie and broke up with his first wife.    I tend to think part of it was simply his work being affected by his personal life.    If you map out representative pieces of his art, they start to dip in the late 80s, recover pretty well in the mid 90s and get great again in the late 90s.    I'd hold up some of his late 90s and early 00's art against anything he did earlier, in fact visually speaking I rather prefer it.    A nice example of that kind of work and time frame sold at HA recently for around 10k:    https://fineart.ha.com/itm/illustration-art/boris-vallejo-american-b-1941-in-victory-heavy-metal-magazine-cover-march-2003-oil-on-board/a/5185-72309.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 .        You will notice the figure is fit but not shredded, the background is beautiful, the pose is relaxed and natural, the gaze is convincing, etc.      So, while there is a popular conception of the late 70s and early 80s work being the best, I think that's only half the story.    1998 - 2010 or so are wonderful are well and in some ways better.    

Edited March 12, 2018 by Bronty

[PhilipB2k17]

5 minutes ago, Bronty said:

(ed: I should have written "apI think those are good comments.   I would add the following:

- the hard right turn in his art towards... not beefcake, because he did that very early on... but towards... stiff poses and flexing standing still, that sort of thing... happened right before and after he hooked up with Julie and broke up with his first wife.    I tend to think part of it was simply his work being affected by his personal life.    If you map out representative pieces of his art, they start to dip in the late 80s, recover pretty well in the mid 90s and get great again in the late 90s.    I'd hold up some of his late 90s and early 00's art against anything he did earlier, in fact I prefer it.    A nice example of that kind of work and time frame sold at HA recently for around 10k:    https://fineart.ha.com/itm/illustration-art/boris-vallejo-american-b-1941-in-victory-heavy-metal-magazine-cover-march-2003-oil-on-board/a/5185-72309.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 .        You will notice the figure is fit but not shredded, the background is beautiful, the pose is relaxed and natural, the gaze is convincing, etc.      

I just recall that the Holy Trinity of Fantasy Cover art (70's to early 80's) at the time was Frazetta, Boris and Rowena. I devoured all of the RE Howard Conan books, and Boris' covers were as highly valued (ed: I should have written "appreciated") as Frazetta's were. At the time.

Edited March 12, 2018 by PhilipB2k17

[Bronty]

1 minute ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

I just recall that the Holy Trinity of Fantasy Cover art (70's to early 80's) at the time was Frazetta, Boris and Rowena. I devoured all of the RE Howard Conan books, and Boris' covers were as highly valued as Frazetta's were. At the time.

I didn't argue with any of that.   Its a touch before my time but I recall many conversations early in my comic collecting where 'Frazetta and Boris' or 'Boris and Frazetta' were discussed together and on mostly equal footing.   I hear where you're coming from.    

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by Bronty

[PhilipB2k17]

3 minutes ago, Bronty said:

I didn't argue with any of that.   Its a touch before my time but I recall many conversations were 'Frazetta and Boris' were discussed together and on mostly equal footing.   I hear where you're coming from.    

 

Boris was the superior technician. It's kind of like comparing Steve Vai to Jimi Hendrix. I've actually heard people claim Vai is a better guitarist than Jimi, which I think even Steve Vai would blanche at. Vai is a superb, and probably superior technician to Jimi, but there is no way in hell he's a "better" player in the otherworldly sense of artistry, soul, feel, musicality, etc.

Frazetta is Jimi. Boris is Vai.

Edited March 12, 2018 by PhilipB2k17

[Pete Marino]

8 minutes ago, Bronty said:

I think those are good comments.   I would add the following:

- the hard right turn in his art towards... not beefcake, because he did that very early on... but towards... stiff poses and flexing standing still, that sort of thing... happened right before and after he hooked up with Julie and broke up with his first wife.    I tend to think part of it was simply his work being affected by his personal life.    If you map out representative pieces of his art, they start to dip in the late 80s, recover pretty well in the mid 90s and get great again in the late 90s.    I'd hold up some of his late 90s and early 00's art against anything he did earlier, in fact visually speaking I rather prefer it.    A nice example of that kind of work and time frame sold at HA recently for around 10k:    https://fineart.ha.com/itm/illustration-art/boris-vallejo-american-b-1941-in-victory-heavy-metal-magazine-cover-march-2003-oil-on-board/a/5185-72309.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 .        You will notice the figure is fit but not shredded, the background is beautiful, the pose is relaxed and natural, the gaze is convincing, etc.      So, while there is a popular conception of the late 70s and early 80s work being the best, I think that's only half the story.    1998 - 2010 or so are wonderful are well and in some ways better.    

I think this is a very astute point.  I have a friend who's very into illustration art, and he loves modern Borris stuff.

[PhilipB2k17]

3 minutes ago, Pete Marino said:

I think this is a very astute point.  I have a friend who's very into illustration art, and he loves modern Borris stuff.

Boris was best when he was illustrating, not painting posed figures. That's why I like his SSOC covers.