Dimensions for an Incredible Hulk 1 1 1

[topcat54]

Can someone that maybe owns this book or someone that has ran across this before please give me some dimensions? Like how wide and how tall?

Thanks in advance.

[VintageComics]

9 hours ago, topcat54 said:

Can someone that maybe owns this book or someone that has ran across this before please give me some dimensions? Like how wide and how tall?

Thanks in advance.

Silver Age Marvel issues from 1962 are going to be roughly the same size.

What are you looking for? A trim job?

You can't tell (unless it's excessive) by measuring and comparing books because all old comics vary in size a little bit from book to book.

Take a stack of untrimmed Hulk #1's and they might all be slightly different in size.

Only real well to tell is to examine it in hand.

[topcat54]

Thanks I looked at the book for about an hour and came home with it looks way better in person nice gloss

 

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, topcat54 said:

Thanks I looked at the book for about an hour and came home with it looks way better in person nice gloss

 

Trimming (a non-restorative mutilation) is typically performed along with some type of amateur restoration. Actually, I would call any restoration that is non-reversible, "amateur". In that case, something like color-touch would have to be scraped away du to the nature of the ink used to conceal, not restore, defects.

Although this picture is not ideal to work with, I see no overt/obvious signs of color-touch or other procedures, and the cover art, left to right, top to bottom appears to be within the relative "norm" for an untrimmed, unrestored book.

That said, size does vary in these, the manufacturing tolerances not very exacting. The manufacturer does allow leeway, and the normal range (not the exact size) for this and the typical 1961 to 1964 Marvels is from between 10 and 3/8ths inches to 10 and 1/4 inch top to bottom, and from 6 and 3/4" and 6 and 7/8ths" left to right.

Measuring one book against another to determine will not necessarily yield conclusive results because of these variations in size, right off the assembly line. Now, that is the "normal" range for each dimension, but there are exceptions. I've measured one 1964 book left to right that came in at "over 7 inches" left to right, a giant! Now since these covers are printed multiple to a sheet (different issues for that month, that print run) and are clipped at the same time, one must conclude that if one was cut that big, another, cut from the same sheet at the same time had to have been cut "small", give and take.

Noting books at or below the normal range can be of benefit. The size might be a powerful indication that this smaller book deserves more scrutiny for signs of trim. But it doesn't always work out that a small book is trimmed. The edges determine that, not the size alone.

[The Lions Den]

With this copy, you can certainly narrow it down a little. The top edge looks exactly like what I would expect from a Silver Age Marvel. The right and bottom edge are a little more interesting. I'd have to see it in person to make a definite determination, but even if it's trimmed, this is still a book worth owning. Before any negotiating takes place, I would ask for more detailed photos, as well as close-up photos of the right and bottom edges of the book...and return policy details as well.    

[James J Johnson]

27 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

With this copy, you can certainly narrow it down a little. The top edge looks exactly like what I would expect from a Silver Age Marvel. The right and bottom edge are a little more interesting. I'd have to see it in person to make a definite determination, but even if it's trimmed, this is still a book worth owning. Before any negotiating takes place, I would ask for more detailed photos, as well as close-up photos of the right and bottom edges of the book...and return policy details as well.    

Sadly, from this perspective, you can't see the way the inside pages line up against the covers. And how as a unit, the pages line up against each other. Without having the edges under a loupe to examine in person, with a clear pic of the spine from several varied angles, you can usually narrow down a question of trimmed or not considerably by studying these proportional relationships between covers and pages and then page to page as an interior whole...

Edited June 21, 2018 by James J Johnson

[conan09279]

This is a timely thread.  Sent this to CSC to see if it would benefit from a press before I had it graded.  The email back said it was rejected as the top and bottom cover had been trimmed.  I'm not sure what's trimmed - it's missing pieces from the corners!  Debating what to do - have them mail it back or just get it graded. 

[The Lions Den]

I think that you made the right call by having them check your ASM before pressing. And if CCS says the cover is trimmed, you can take that to the bank. It's still desirable...just not worth as much.   

[The Lions Den]

16 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Sadly, from this perspective, you can't see the way the inside pages line up against the covers. And how as a unit, the pages line up against each other. Without having the edges under a loupe to examine in person, with a clear pic of the spine from several varied angles, you can usually narrow down a question of trimmed or not considerably by studying these proportional relationships between covers and pages and then page to page as an interior whole...

JJ, you are the God of paper...  

[James J Johnson]

14 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

I think that you made the right call by having them check your ASM before pressing. And if CCS says the cover is trimmed, you can take that to the bank. It's still desirable...just not worth as much.   

This AS 1 is highly unusual, because going by the pictures, I'd never suspect that this is trimmed. Here's why:

1) The bottom edge has overhang. The cover extending beyond the level of all of the pages. Not just some, but all. So because this spine is not tight and there is a minor roll aspect to it, one can expect that even on an untrimmed book, any amount of normal overhang might or might not hide all of the pages, some of which may be ever so slightly tilted out of plumb with other pages, i.e. varied "looseness" because the pages aren't perfectly tight and in reading, some may have incurred more "pull" in reading, flipping, rolling, etc. So even with overhang, on a book with spine roll to any degree, one may expect to be able to see pages, maybe even only one or two, that are visible below the level of the cover's natural overhang.

That said, this bottom edge has enough overhang; it's ample enough that it completely hides any portion of the pages at all! Unusual for a rolled book. A book with a roll of this amount; you should almost always be able to see at least the last page or pages emanating below the right corner of the front cover. And you don't!!!

What this points to is that this book was produced with a generous overhang, at least average, and likely more, and now since that staple "looseness" and roll, have shifted the cover down slightly, not one bit of any page can be seen below the cover. And aside from that, that bottom edge looks to me to be original! The wear right up to the edge of the cover is consistent with untrimmed books. So were I a betting man, I'd wager against this bottom edge being trimmed, at least not the cover. I can't speak for the pages or any one page, but my impression is of an untrimmed bottom edge.

2) The top edge is tricky to gauge from a pic. Because the cover is nearly flush with the pages, which may have occurred two ways: From the slightly downward shift and slight roll, relative to the pages, or from indeed being trimmed. Now the top edge does have as natural a look to me as the bottom, but pending in person scrutiny, nobody could be 100% sure of trim or no trim based on the picture and the position of the top edge relative to the pages. So here's my odds on this AS 1:

Top edge trimmed? 50/50 pick 'em

Bottom edge trimmed? 90 no / 10 yes.

So overall, those odds favor the book being not trimmed by about 3 to 1.

That's one to one odds on the top edge and 9 to 1 odds on the bottom edge for not trimmed.

Not to disagree with CCS, they do know what they're doing, but based on the images alone and the characteristics of those edges, that's my analysis from afar. I'd have them take another look. A second look can never hurt on any squeaker.

[James J Johnson]

3 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

JJ, you are the God of paper...  

Stands to reason. That makes perfect sense! As a lad, I was a paper-boy. Then, as a young paper-man, I worked in the distribution process of circulars and periodicals, while attending further education. So now, fully grown, the next step. I've matured into a Paper-God! Never thought of it that way, thank you for pointing it out!

Edited June 21, 2018 by James J Johnson

[conan09279]

I decided to send it to CGC to grade - crossing my fingers they disagree (but not holding out any hopes). I'll let you guys know. 

[conan09279]

Here are the notes - 3.5 apparent

medium, multiple staple tear
moderate wear spine breaks color
multiple crease back cover
multiple crease full bottom of front cover breaks color
small, multiple tear cover
trimmed full bottom of front cover
trimmed full top of back cover

I'd never have guessed it was trimmed.  Sucks - but what can you do. 

 

 

[James J Johnson]

25 minutes ago, conan09279 said:

Here are the notes - 3.5 apparent

medium, multiple staple tear
moderate wear spine breaks color
multiple crease back cover
multiple crease full bottom of front cover breaks color
small, multiple tear cover
trimmed full bottom of front cover
trimmed full top of back cover

I'd never have guessed it was trimmed.  Sucks - but what can you do. 

 

 

What the? You sent this to the CGC and it was graded and returned within 22 hours after you decided to?  

Teleportation? Or are these old notes from an old grading?

[conan09279]

I don't have it yet - just the notes posted.  But it was one day between CCS and CGC.  I'm bummed about the edges - I never in a million years would have spotted it. 

Here is a pic of the back cover. 

Edited June 23, 2018 by conan09279

[James J Johnson]

2 hours ago, conan09279 said:

I don't have it yet - just the notes posted.  But it was one day between CCS and CGC.  I'm bummed about the edges - I never in a million years would have spotted it. 

Here is a pic of the back cover. 

Bigger back cover image possible? Or a large 1/2 and 1/2 of the top edge?

[conan09279]

Not sure - weird all around.  I was planning on upgrading - just need to accelerate the process now.

8 hours ago, James J Johnson said:

Bigger back cover image possible? Or a large 1/2 and 1/2 of the top edge?

 

[DreGarciaTat2]

I don’t know if this is a rude question... what did you pick this up for? Always a book I’ve really admired.