Restored comics anyone?

[ninanina]

Well, greggy - much to the chagrin of Buggyboo, you seem to be getting famous around these parts.

[ArAich]

Well, greggy - much to the chagrin of Buggyboo, you seem to be getting famous around these parts

 

 

 

Awww...now his head is going to explode...

[ninanina]

That's not what I wanted to happen. I just said it to Bug Bug.

[greggy]

Nah, I'm not famous!

 

I'm just a former pack rat who didn't have the need to sell any books so I kept most of them. However, as my taste switched to DCs and the CGC market peaked for Marvels last Spring, I unloaded all my best stuff to finance stuff that I would enjoy more!

[blowout]

Fantastic Four #3 in CGC 9.4 with moderate restoration. I bought it from water-walker (Rob Hughes) in 2001 for $250, which I thought and still think is damn good. I'm sure I'll keep it since it's absolutely beautiful and the only better known copy is being held tightly in Brulato's grip. Here it is:

 

It sure looks like a nice copy James, but how can you say the only better copy is held by Brulato?

Your book has some pretty major restoration and although it looks NM now it can't have been any better than a GD before the resto.

If you think you got a good deal that is great, but you don't have a copy of FF #3 in CGC 9.4. What you have is a CGC 2.0 (maybe) with the dents knocked out and a respray job.

I don't think many will agree that you have the second best CGC copy of the book.

 

That being said, if a book is bought will full knowledge of restoration and got at a nice price then that is fine. Personally I don't buy restored books, but can see the appeal to collectors who want a nice looking book but don't want to pay the big $$$.

[clobberintime]

I have a few. spidey 1 cgc 9.2 with slight color touch is the best - beautiful cover. Spidey 41 and 100 9.2 with slight color touch - and 9 9.2 with slight ct. A conan 1 9.4 with glue on spine. A Spidey 5 9.2 with glue on spine. A Tales to asdtonish 93 9.6 that got a green qualified label for having a piece of small tape at centerfold. Also a couple of Batmans from heritage in the 8.0 range with spine reinforcement - I think #7 and #9. Slight work does not bother me. i think I paid $2200 fro the Spidey 1 about 2 years ago. I thinkt eh Astonish was about $150.

[fantastic_four]

Posted this in another thread recently--I asked CGC a few years ago the same thing you just asked me:

 

The difference between amateur and professional restoration is not the quality of the work but the materials used to restore the comic. An example is color touch where acrylic paint would be considered professional and marker or pen would be considered amateur. Factors such as archivalness and removeability as well as what materials have been historically used by restoration and conservation professionals. In the case of the Fantastic Four #3 you mentioned the comic may have marker on it that was applied before the professional work was done. No matter how professional the restoration is on a comic, if it has any materials on it that fall into the amateur category, the comic will be called amateur restoration. Hope this helped.

 

Chris Friesen

Restoration Detection Expert

CGC

[14 of spades]

well in any case, i'd pay 250 for that FF 3 too...

 

good pickup

[fantastic_four]

It sure looks like a nice copy James, but how can you say the only better copy is held by Brulato?

People sure are touchy about something they can't even see unless CGC points it out for them, aren't they?I prioritize aesthetics over market value, and there isn't another copy of this issue that looks this good that I've seen. I prefer unrestored, but if the only copies on an issue are restored and look better than the unrestored, I'd rather have those. If a 9.0 or 9.2 of this book became available to me, I'd probably buy it, but I wouldn't get rid of this one because it's highly unlikely that the 9.0 or 9.2 would look better.I just went through this line of thinking a few days ago when this issue sold:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2165187889&category=76Why would I want that Census-topping 8.0 when I've got this restored 9.2 that looks better?

Click for larger image

I can't decide if I'm behind the times or ahead of my time. I don't mind unrestored like people used not to back before the greedy slight restorers ruined the market, but I can also see why those market prices on restored comics have fallen and I can see how the market is highly likely to eventually change once people become more educated on restoration detection, additive vs subtractive restoration techniques, and restoration vs. conservation. That time is out near the horizon, but it'll come.

[joe_collector]

Today's comic book investor doesn't even know who Wolverine is, so who do you expect them to understand the nuances of restoration?

 

They buy what Heritage and Overstreet tell them to.

[FlyingDonut]

today's comic book investory probably wouldn't care who Wolverine is - Wolverine's big price pop has already happened. The true INVESTOR is looking for the items that have the best potential for long term growth, which isn't Wolverine.

[COI]

I totally agree with you on this. Restored books definetly have their place, especially in cases like the 2 books you mentioned, where the alternative is a significantly lesser looking copy. IMO, this is especially true with books that only have a dot or 2 of color touch, or trimming.

[fantastic_four]

Overstreet nor the dealers told the market to hate restored books...it came to that decision on its own. We had this discussion before when ABlue first started talking about cleaning and pressing...the restored comic market has a case of diarrhea with slight restoration to already-high grade books being the cause.

 

That article someone linked to on Krause's web site had an interesting point--it said that restored coins dropped in value when certification first hit, but after a decade or two (can't remember if the article put a time on it), the prices recovered. That's my prediction for comics as well. A Fine restored up to an apparent NM will never be worth what an unrestored NM is, but it won't be worth less than the VG price like it is now.

[joe_collector]

>>The true INVESTOR is looking for the items that have the best potential for long term growth, which isn't Wolverine.

 

For that, just get some early -script drafts of upcoming comic book movies, find out the characters and then buy like a madman (assuming it's not already a Key).

[joe_collector]

>>Overstreet nor the dealers told the market to hate restored books...

 

You need to go back and re-read your Overstreets. Bob has long been a vocal opponent of comic restoration and has never placed much monetary value on restored books.

 

This kind of opinion (however valid) does carry a lot of weight when interwoven in the market reports, letters and opinions of the Overstreet guide.

[fantastic_four]

Can you point me at an issue and page number? I've got all the back issues and can't remember him being negative about restoration. Realistic about the fact that there should be a price difference, but not an "opponent" of it.

 

I'm sure a big opponent of a certain type of restoration--deceptive, undisclosed restoration, especially to books that are already VF or better. We should all be an opponent of that.

[COI]

As was mentioned before, I don't think it's simply a matter of Overstreet/dealer's opinions rendering the books valueless. It stems more from the bitter taste of undisclosed restoration creating a negative stigma on restored books as a whole.

[joe_collector]

Hey, I'm not blaming Bob in the least, and agree with his views. I have read his restoration views in several of the Overstreet Updates, as editorial comments to dealers promoting/selling restored books, and also in the Letters section in response to readers.

 

In hindsight, I'd estimate he's been scammed a few times on undisclosed restoration and certainly shot down a few dealers who said that "some kinds of restoration are beneficial" along the same lines as some on these forums.

 

Frame it any way you want, but I've never read a comment where Bob is positive towards comic restoration, even when it is fully disclosed.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

He's more positive than the market is. His formula for determining the post-restoration price of a comic leaves it being worth more than it was prior to the restoration, but the current marketplace quite often is valuing restored books as much less than if they had just been left alone.

[joe_collector]

But remember that CGC has changed the equation relating to restored books. Under Bob's rules, a comic originally in VG condition, that looked NM with restoration, would be graded Restored VG, and he thought it should be worth more than plain VG.

 

That makes sense in some ways.

 

CGC has gotten all jiggy and only state the "Apparent Grade" without noting what the book graded pre-restoration, so that no restored/unrestored comparisons can ever be made.