PGM Silver Surfer 4 9.6 Q (tape pull on back cover) as a blue label 0

[Kevin...]

Hey team, thoughts on the blue label universal grade for this slab? Corners are all sharp, pencil date on the back cover (see pic), and a lil bit of dirt. Thanks for the help!

-Kev

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Kevin...

[The Lions Den]

Are you saying you'd rather have a blue label with the tape pull factored into the grade?

[Kevin...]

6 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Are you saying you'd rather have a blue label with the tape pull factored into the grade?

I like it as a 9.6Q, just wondering what people think it would grade as if the tape pull were factored in. Amongst my comic buddies we all have pretty different ideas about how CGC counts damage like this...CGC has declined to comment except to tell me I'm welcome to crack it and submit the book for universal grading.  

Edited July 17, 2018 by Kevin...

[The Lions Den]

Well, in cases like this, what I like to do is figure out what grade the book can't be with this flaw. Using this system, I think anything higher than Very Fine is out. According to the grading criteria I use, in the VF range ONE major defect is allowed. I think it's too large a flaw for an 8.5, but a 7.5 or an 8.0 seem possible since the flaw is on the back cover and the rest of the book is so nice. A very desirable book, even with the tape pull... 

[Kevin...]

32 minutes ago, The Lions Den said:

Well, in cases like this, what I like to do is figure out what grade the book can't be with this flaw. Using this system, I think anything higher than Very Fine is out. According to the grading criteria I use, in the VF range ONE major defect is allowed. I think it's too large a flaw for an 8.5, but a 7.5 or an 8.0 seem possible since the flaw is on the back cover and the rest of the book is so nice. A very desirable book, even with the tape pull... 

thanks man, I think 8.5 ;-)

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, Kevin... said:

I like it as a 9.6Q, just wondering what people think it would grade as if the tape pull were factored in. Amongst my comic buddies we all have pretty different ideas about how CGC counts damage like this...CGC has declined to comment except to tell me I'm welcome to crack it and submit the book for universal grading.  

CGC will never quote you a grade from a pic. They always tell you to submit it. If you do send it in, leave it in the slab. I had an 8.5 with a much smaller tape pull, about 1/8" wide and the length of the staple. Your tape pull looks considerably bigger. Based on that, I'd be more inclined to grade this a 7.5 . I think it looks great in the early generation label and I would not risk losing that WP designation. Another option... If submitted today, I don't think they would mention the tape pull on the label. Maybe you can send it in for a reholder and get the text dropped. Again, not sure, I would check with CGC about this first.

[Kevin...]

3 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

CGC will never quote you a grade from a pic. They always tell you to submit it. If you do send it in, leave it in the slab. I had an 8.5 with a much smaller tape pull, about 1/8" wide and the length of the staple. Your tape pull looks considerably bigger. Based on that, I'd be more inclined to grade this a 7.5 . I think it looks great in the early generation label and I would not risk losing that WP designation. Another option... If submitted today, I don't think they would mention the tape pull on the label. Maybe you can send it in for a reholder and get the text dropped. Again, not sure, I would check with CGC about this first.

great insight, I'll avoid getting it re-graded as a universal, but will inquire about it getting re-holdered. I personally have no issue with the tape pull being mentioned on the label, IMO it's better than having something married, coupon cut out, etc.

[The Lions Den]

8 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Maybe you can send it in for a reholder and get the text dropped. Again, not sure, I would check with CGC about this first.

I hope that CGC continues to put the text on the Qualified label in capital letters, even for flaws that are easy to see…  

Edited July 18, 2018 by The Lions Den

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, The Lions Den said:

I hope that CGC continues to put the text on the Qualified label in capital letters, even for flaws that are easy to see…  

I think you're right. It's only on the Blue Label that they stopped listing major flaws. For the record, I think major flaws should be listed, no matter what the label. Not listing Rusty Staples is a pet peeve of mine. I tried to contact CGC to understand why they won't note it on the label but they never respond. I think because CGC gets so many complaints, mostly frivolous IMO, that they have made a conscious decision to not communicate with us. It's either that or they don't like us and are taking a passive aggressive approach = snubbing us. I'm a big fan of CGC but I really wish they would be more open to responding to a legitimate question. That's one thing I miss about the Borock days, he would talk to us. The only time you get to hear from Paul Litch is on a Pawn Stars episode. 

[The Lions Den]

11 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I think you're right. It's only on the Blue Label that they stopped listing major flaws. For the record, I think major flaws should be listed, no matter what the label. Not listing Rusty Staples is a pet peeve of mine. I tried to contact CGC to understand why they won't note it on the label but they never respond. I think because CGC gets so many complaints, mostly frivolous IMO, that they have made a conscious decision to not communicate with us. It's either that or they don't like us and are taking a passive aggressive approach = snubbing us. I'm a big fan of CGC but I really wish they would be more open to responding to a legitimate question. That's one thing I miss about the Borock days, he would talk to us. The only time you get to hear from Paul Litch is on a Pawn Stars episode. 

I understand where you're coming from, Bob. Unfortunately, I think they're all so busy they simply don't have time to deal with some of the more minor details. So if it's a snub, it's not intentional. It's just that anything that keeps them from getting the books out the door puts them further behind. I know they've been working extra hours to try to keep up with turnaround times, and they've been doing that for as long as I can remember. And you're right, Steve used to talk to the customers---most of us did at one time or another. The problem with that is it would affect the number of books going out the door, which in turn would result in even more customer frustration. As far as the rusty staples issue, that used to be something that would be put in the notes, but not on the label. I'm guessing the decision about not putting it on the label was made because there are usually more important flaws to put on the label, such as restoration, missing pages or married covers. And it's a tough one to evaluate, because there can be different degrees of rust. It all takes a lot of time and effort, time that the graders usually don't have. I remember a beautiful TOS #39 that had rusty staples. It still got a 9.2, but the staple rust was the only real flaw on the book. In that case it was clearly noted, because it detracted several thousand dollars from the overall value of the book...and just like everywhere else, money talks... 

Edited July 18, 2018 by The Lions Den
Additional info added

[Bomber-Bob]

10 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

I understand where you're coming from, Bob. Unfortunately, I think they're all so busy they simply don't have time to deal with some of the more minor details. So if it's a snub, it's not intentional. It's just that anything that keeps them from getting the books out the door puts them further behind. I know they've been working extra hours to try to keep up with turnaround times, and they've been doing that for as long as I can remember. And you're right, Steve used to talk to the customers---most of us did at one time or another. The problem with that is it would affect the number of books going out the door, which in turn would result in even more customer frustration. As far as the rusty staples issue, that used to be something that would be put in the notes, but not on the label. I'm guessing the decision about not putting it on the label was made because there are usually more important flaws to put on the label, such as restoration, missing pages or married covers. And it's a tough one to evaluate, because there can be different degrees of rust. It all takes a lot of time and effort, time that the graders usually don't have. I remember a beautiful TOS #39 that had rusty staples. It still got a 9.2, but the staple rust was the only real flaw on the book. In that case it was clearly noted, because it detracted several thousand dollars from the overall value of the book...and just like everywhere else, money talks... 

Lion, thanks for the insight. 

[The Lions Den]

2 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Lion, thanks for the insight. 

I hope it helps you understand why they don't respond to questions very often anymore---I seriously doubt that it's because they don't like us. And at least I get to see Pauly on "Pawn Stars" occasionally...