kclaw97 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Hi, I'm hoping to get some thoughts from fellow comic enthusiasts on an issue re a sale i made on ebay. The sale was for the Batman 50 Aspen Turner Covers A,B,C. Knowing how tough some Aspen books are to get in 9.8 when I received the books the pics i posted to the listing were of the books in the bag/board. I didn't want to risk creating any damage from my handling. I understand i should have posted additional pics. i scoured the books (sealed) to ensure there was no damage. The books were sold for $84.98 + $20 for shipping (we can argue that later). I package books in a gemini mailer sandwiched between two pieces of heavy cardboard; never had an issue previously. This afternoon i get a message to cancel the order as the books were damaged. Do i have any recourse in fighting this return or will ebay and paypal side w the buyer no matter what? Honestly if i received the books in the condition the buyer shows in pics i NEVER would have sold them. and unfortunately we all know that the USPS can do a number on packages from time to time. Not only that he received them today, requested the return today and the last line is a little much i think. I appreciate the feedback. From buyer: Hi, I just received this today and I have to say, although it was nicely packaged, these comics are damaged. I'd like to return them. There is bad corner damage on all 3 comics. bottom right corner on batman and poison ivy and bottom left on catwoman. Also, the $20 shipping was way high. I only noticed the shipping price after i won the auction, wasn't very stoked then either...These comics pictured in your listing do not have the damages that I see on the copies I received, or you were very clever in hiding said damage. included are pictures. This could have happened in shipping. Either way, over $100 for comics that i cant get graded...not to happy..did you know these comics had these corner creases/bends? If so it should have been stated in the listing... they can possibly be pressed out, but that would cost me another $40. Let me know your thoughts. I look forward to hearing back from you. I'd like to leave positive feedback but as of right now it's not looking good : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclaw97 Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 Sorry for bum pics...lets try this again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HENRYSPENCER Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Cliff notes please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclaw97 Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, HENRYSPENCER said: Cliff notes please? Buyer bought Aspen Batman 50 A,B,C...books arrived today said they were damaged--pics included. Wants to cancel order. I would not have sent books out in that shape without disclosing as such. Do i stand any chance with ebay/paypal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclaw97 Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 the buyer states damage could have happened in shipping but provides no pics of gemini mailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, HENRYSPENCER said: Cliff notes please? He bought Aspen books, sold books on ebay with pics of them in mylar, meticulously. Buyer receives them, gets them out, there is undisclosed damage. Buyer then wants a return and refund for undisclosed damage. Buyer suggests the the OP (seller) may or may not have known, but regardless the damage should have been disclosed. Halfway threatens to leave negative feedback, but is willing to let seller make things right but is also disappointed 1 minute ago, kclaw97 said: Buyer bought Aspen Batman 50 A,B,C...books arrived today said they were damaged--pics included. Wants to cancel order. I would not have sent books out in that shape without disclosing as such. Do i stand any chance with ebay/paypal? ahhh you beat me to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadGenius Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 You're going to have to eat this return. If the damage wasn't there when you shipped them out then it could have occurred in transit (or the buyer could be pulling a switch and scamming you). Either way, there's no way to know for sure so eBay will side with the buyer in any dispute. RockMyAmadeus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, kclaw97 said: the buyer states damage could have happened in shipping but provides no pics of gemini mailer. 1 minute ago, MadGenius said: You're going to have to eat this return. If the damage wasn't there when you shipped them out then it could have occurred in transit (or the buyer could be pulling a switch and scamming you). Either way, there's no way to know for sure so eBay will side with the buyer in any dispute. I agree, the only way to get out of it was to have better pics of condition before mailing. As in you did it in mylar, while the buyer takes the pics out of mylar.... I think that he meets burden of proof. Sometimes we all expect our orders to be perfect off the racks, but I've sent in my fair share with seldom a 9.8.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclaw97 Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, ADAMANTIUM said: I agree, the only way to get out of it was to have better pics of condition before mailing. As in you did it in mylar, while the buyer takes the pics out of mylar.... I think that he meets burden of proof. Sometimes we all expect our orders to be perfect off the racks, but I've sent in my fair share with seldom a 9.8.... good point...i may not have noticed the damage as the bag/board compressed the book enough to 'hide' it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 On the other hand, I guess it would matter what you put in the listing, ie "the books pictured is the exact book that you'll receive" etc.... with no clarification of NM etc but I don't know how that will fly with ebay, but may be an action you could take. I'd go with the return, it beats negative feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozmo-One Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 Based on my reading these boards the past few months, you will probably have little recourse if the buyer wants a return. I've never sold comic books on eBay, but I have purchased quite a few, and I have received a few books that arrived damaged. They did appear to be shipping damage, as there were usually marks on the box, but in one case it was very well packed like you described (gemini mailer with additional cardboard). I do let the seller know immediately and sent pictures of the packing, and they typically offer the return/refund. One did later offer a partial refund in lieu of the return, which I accepted (since I think it would press out). I have never done a 'shakedown' about negative feedback, though, as that seems like bad form. I don't think I would ever initially ask for a partial refund either, as in most cases I'd rather just return the books. One seller did ask me to send the original packaging back, as I think he was going to file a claim with USPS. ADAMANTIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 1 minute ago, kclaw97 said: good point...i may not have noticed the damage as the bag/board compressed the book enough to 'hide' it plus good customer service is a thing I think if you made another listing disclosing with new pics, they could still sell, who knows? but don't give an opportunity for a negative feedback.... if he still left you a neg, you could probably have it removed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HENRYSPENCER Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, kclaw97 said: Buyer bought Aspen Batman 50 A,B,C...books arrived today said they were damaged--pics included. Wants to cancel order. I would not have sent books out in that shape without disclosing as such. Do i stand any chance with ebay/paypal? Nope. PayPal will side with him. Hopefully you got postal insurance. As soon as he opens a case the funds will go on hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADAMANTIUM Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Cozmo-One said: Based on my reading these boards the past few months, you will probably have little recourse if the buyer wants a return. I've never sold comic books on eBay, but I have purchased quite a few, and I have received a few books that arrived damaged. They did appear to be shipping damage, as there were usually marks on the box, but in one case it was very well packed like you described (gemini mailer with additional cardboard). I do let the seller know immediately and sent pictures of the packing, and they typically offer the return/refund. One did later offer a partial refund in lieu of the return, which I accepted (since I think it would press out). I have never done a 'shakedown' about negative feedback, though, as that seems like bad form. I don't think I would ever initially ask for a partial refund either, as in most cases I'd rather just return the books. One seller did ask me to send the original packaging back, as I think he was going to file a claim with USPS. isn't that why seller's get insurance.... even if they give a partial refund, the insurance may be enough to cover that, and that way you can refund enough for pressing, especially if they are going to be graded anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclaw97 Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 4 minutes ago, HENRYSPENCER said: Nope. PayPal will side with him. Hopefully you got postal insurance. As soon as he opens a case the funds will go on hold. Books were shipped USPS Priority with up to $100 insurance...what do i need to provide USPS to begin/prove claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spideyfan68 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I've had USPS damage 3 books this year, as a buyer I always provide the seller with pictures of the packaging to show how books were damaged. Did buyer include pics of the backboards and packaging? I agree with others you will probably have to eat it but you're probably going need those pictures for insurance. ADAMANTIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kclaw97 Posted July 22, 2018 Author Share Posted July 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, spideyfan68 said: I've had USPS damage 3 books this year, as a buyer I always provide the seller with pictures of the packaging to show how books were damaged. Did buyer include pics of the backboards and packaging? I agree with others you will probably have to eat it but you're probably going need those pictures for insurance. No pics of packaging were included. Is it bad form to request them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 I'm very sorry this happened. If the buyer wants to return the books, ask him to please send back all the original packing material as well as the backing boards and everything else---you will need it for your claim with the USPS. These books do appear to have been damaged in shipping, and if you can prove they were packaged well enough, you may be able to win your claim with the postal service. Unfortunately, you will be in the uncomfortable position of having three damaged books and no money since you should refund the buyer when you get the books back. The best you can probably hope for here is to win your claim with the postal service and not have the buyer leave you negative feedback. You could also offer the buyer a partial refund and see if he'll keep the books---less hassle for everyone and one in the hand is worth two in the bush. Good luck! ADAMANTIUM 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spideyfan68 Posted July 22, 2018 Share Posted July 22, 2018 4 hours ago, kclaw97 said: No pics of packaging were included. Is it bad form to request them? Not at all, tell the buyer they are needed to get claim started and as The Lions Den posted have the seller send the packaging materials and books back. Then refund their money promptly. I would get the claim started quickly as possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justafan Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I would also ask for photos of the back board's and mylar. corner bends like that due to shipping will be evident on the backing board corner as well. if those werent present when you shipped it means they likely happened during shipping. if comics are not secured well inside the Gemini mailer, they can suffer damage just from the jostling and bumping within the mailer despite the mailer appearing undamaged. caution with this info as it can both help and hurt your claim with usps. if the back boards show no blunting damage then there are 2 possibilities: 1. they were already like that before you received them and encountered the damage prior to them bagging and boarding them. I've received several retailer variants straight from retailers with similar or worse damage which leads me to question that practice and continuing purchases from them. You may be able to contact the retailer and get replacements or refund. 2. he did a switcharoo but since you didn't take front and back cover pics of them out of the bag, (which you should always do) ebay/PayPal will not b on your side and a USPS claim is your only out. (though you could try and get a refund/discount from the retailer.) hopefully you actually paid for the $100 insurance as opposed to the default $50 insurance usps gives you for priority mail. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
