Listed as pre-code art, but is it really? A PCH mystery... 0

[The Voord]

I've now flagged this one up on the 'Original Comic Art Collectors' FB group.

[Rick2you2]

10 hours ago, vodou said:

 

And there it is. Proof of provenance ( ) and a big ol' EFF-U to anybody that might not have been fooled by the BS but wanted the art anyway, for what it actually is...of course. Another piece ruined for the ages. Rock on Brothers Dee.

Or, another assignment for Dennis.

[The Voord]

Okay, I found it.  This is what the cover looked like, pre-tampering.  Dated from 1966.

Pretty sure the original owner, Scotty Moore, is not the consignor and has changed hands since he owned it.

Edited November 27, 2018 by The Voord

[pemart1966]

12 hours ago, The Voord said:

Read the thread in full.

Judging by the time stamps, you and I might have had close to simultaneous postings (you with the CC explanation and me with the question as to whether the banner was a stat)...

[The Voord]

18 minutes ago, pemart1966 said:

Judging by the time stamps, you and I might have had close to simultaneous postings (you with the CC explanation and me with the question as to whether the banner was a stat)...

Not a biggie to me, Pemart1966, but I was actually responding more towards the rest of your comments which read:

"Could this be a commission for a fan circa late 60's/early 70's...done in 50's style?"

I'd already explained earlier on in this thread what exactly was being posted . . . which led me to believe you'd jumped-in with an opinion without reading past the first post.  No offence to you intended, just trying to keep the records straight.

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by The Voord

[pemart1966]

5 hours ago, The Voord said:

Not a biggie to me, Pemart1966, but I was actually responding more towards the rest of your comments which read:

"Could this be a commission for a fan circa late 60's/early 70's...done in 50's style?"

I'd already explained earlier on in this thread what exactly was being posted . . . which led me to believe you'd jumped-in with an opinion without reading past the first post.  No offence to you intended, just trying to keep the records straight.

 

No - mine was not an opinion but rather a question.  

Sometimes definitive statements are made early in threads but are later challenged or proven wrong as subsequent posters join the thread.  This was not the case here - you were correct.  In the absence of corroboration (at that time in the thread) I threw out that question to try and explore what I thought at the time might have been a possibility.  

Enough of that then.  The issue here appears to be what could be considered an attempt to deceive.

Edited November 27, 2018 by pemart1966

[Haunted Thrills]

5 hours ago, The Voord said:

It's not an entirely incorrect description.  Schaffenberger was working for ACG during the 1960s using an alias, 'Lou Wahl', creating covers for their published titles and to the best of my recollection the handful of surviving unpublished covers were for proposed new books that never got off the ground (latter half of the 1960s).  What's incorrect in Comic Connect's description is that the cover you highlight in this thread was intended for a pre-code cover (which is definitely not the case).  No idea if the Brothers D are the consignors but this is certainly the kind of deception they would practice.

Comic Connect highlight the fact that a logo has been attached to the unpublished cover for presentation purposes.  What they fail to state is that the recreated logo has no connection to the unpublished cover art . . . 

 

While he may have done it for ACG, it was done in the 60's and is not "a piece of pre-code horror art" as stated in the description.

[The Voord]

4 minutes ago, Haunted Thrills said:

While he may have done it for ACG, it was done in the 60's and is not "a piece of pre-code horror art" as stated in the description.

I've written back to ComicConnect challenging that description (which appears on their web-site, but not on the CAF listing - which was my first port-of-call).  Whether or not they change it, I've no idea.  

To be honest, as with Vodou, my initial thoughts were, "Brothers D?".  At this moment in time, we simply don't know, so probably best not to jump to conclusions.

[Haunted Thrills]

23 minutes ago, The Voord said:

I've written back to ComicConnect challenging that description (which appears on their web-site, but not on the CAF listing - which was my first port-of-call).  Whether or not they change it, I've no idea.  

To be honest, as with Vodou, my initial thoughts were, "Brothers D?".  At this moment in time, we simply don't know, so probably best not to jump to conclusions.

You're absolutely right, who knows how it happened. As I originally stated, I contacted them a week or so ago on the matter and they never responded.
Thanks for the input, this has been very enlightening.

[vodou]

2 hours ago, The Voord said:

I've written back to ComicConnect challenging that description (which appears on their web-site, but not on the CAF listing - which was my first port-of-call).  Whether or not they change it, I've no idea.  

To be honest, as with Vodou, my initial thoughts were, "Brothers D?".  At this moment in time, we simply don't know, so probably best not to jump to conclusions.

I'm jumping anyway , it's them and I bet if somebody can get Scotty on the horn there's a 50% or better chance he traded it directly to them himself. Now that is a guess but it's also the sort of thing they would trade for and they have the sorts of things that Scotty (years back when I knew of him better) would trade this for, probably as San Diego too. Again, that just a guess but if somebody asks and finds that to be true...color me unsurprised.

[Will_K]

5 hours ago, The Voord said:

Okay, I found it.  This is what the cover looked like, pre-tampering.  Dated from 1966.

Not that I think the art is from the 1950's but the text says the logo was drawn in 1966 by Shaffenberger himself. 

... for "presentation purposes", I presume.

Was that page from an article about ACG ?

 

[The Voord]

49 minutes ago, Will_K said:

Not that I think the art is from the 1950's but the text says the logo was drawn in 1966 by Shaffenberger himself. 

... for "presentation purposes", I presume.

Was that page from an article about ACG ?

 

No, the logo drawn by Schaffenberger in 1966 was the DARK TALES one (which is no longer present/visible on the ComicConnect offering).

The present logo (recreated from an unconnected 1950s title) is a recent paste-up (to make it look like it's from the 1950s, not 60s, I guess).  It simply doesn't belong there.

The page I scanned  is from an old edition of Roy Thomas's ALTER EGO (circa 2004, off the top-of-my-head).  

[The Voord]

1 hour ago, vodou said:

I'm jumping anyway , it's them and I bet if somebody can get Scotty on the horn there's a 50% or better chance he traded it directly to them himself. Now that is a guess but it's also the sort of thing they would trade for and they have the sorts of things that Scotty (years back when I knew of him better) would trade this for, probably as San Diego too. Again, that just a guess but if somebody asks and finds that to be true...color me unsurprised.

I'm pretty sure Scotty sold the cover on eBay years ago.  Not necessarily to the Donnellys, which is why I don't want to jump to any conclusions.  It's the kind of thing they'd do, fer sure, but I really don't know if they're guilty on this one - so best to hang back with the lynch mob.

 

[vodou]

12 minutes ago, The Voord said:

...but I really don't know if they're guilty on this one - so best to hang back with the lynch mob.

I guess my resistance is that I'd hate for there to be more than one party doing this sort of bs out there!

[Will_K]

1 hour ago, The Voord said:

No, the logo drawn by Schaffenberger in 1966 was the DARK TALES one (which is no longer present/visible on the ComicConnect offering). 

That's what I meant. 

In the page with the Dark Tales logo, Scotty Moore is quoted saying the Dark Tales logo was from 1966. 

When you posted it that page, you said "Dated from 1966".  I just wanted to make the point that the Dark Tales logo was from 1966 but not necessarily the art.

 

[The Voord]

13 minutes ago, Will_K said:

That's what I meant. 

In the page with the Dark Tales logo, Scotty Moore is quoted saying the Dark Tales logo was from 1966. 

When you posted it that page, you said "Dated from 1966".  I just wanted to make the point that the Dark Tales logo was from 1966 but not necessarily the art.

 

The three unpublished covers, all dating from 1966, had Schaffenberger-created logos affixed to the artworks at the same time-period they were drawn.  The one I used to own, TWISTED, had the same type of lettering design as the DARK TALES logo but had become discoloured over the years due to glue-staining weeping through the (thin-paper) paste-over.

[The Voord]

I've been in contact with someone called Jessica at ComicConnect requesting they amend their web-site's description.  No change at this time of writing but Vincent Zurzolo is now aware, thanks to Richie Halegua flagging it up to him, so hopefully the listing will be corrected soon.

[The Voord]

1 hour ago, The Voord said:

I've been in contact with someone called Jessica at ComicConnect requesting they amend their web-site's description.  No change at this time of writing but Vincent Zurzolo is now aware, thanks to Richie Halegua flagging it up to him, so hopefully the listing will be corrected soon.

Vincent Z has now confirmed to me on FB that the listing's description will be amended soon.

Well done to Haunted Thrills for flagging this one up.  

[Haunted Thrills]

2 hours ago, The Voord said:

Vincent Z has now confirmed to me on FB that the listing's description will be amended soon.

Well done to Haunted Thrills for flagging this one up.  

Glad to see they will be changing the description.  Comic Connect is quite good and I've always had good luck with them.

[The Voord]

Listing has now been corrected.