MCU's THE ETERNALS (11/6/20) 8 8

[fastballspecial]

On 11/6/2021 at 7:49 PM, Drummy said:

Just saw it myself...would give it a 'B' overall.  Lots I liked, lots I didn't, including some too-quick endings to plot lines or even character appearances.  In the bottom half of Marvel movies, to be sure, but still a well-made and well-acted film.  I liked some of the relationships they established even though we only meet these characters for one film.  Some other characters, though, I couldn't come to care about.

Dan

I agree I just got back and I enjoyed. It wasn't perfect, but 7.5 out of 10 maybe an 8.

RT score is 84% for audiences and I think thats about right. I never understood the hate some
Facebook warriors have for this film. I think they changes the made fit for the most part. 

Too many people thought this was another Avengers movie its not. I really enjoyed the flashbacks
of history being a former history teacher as well. A global style cast was the right move as well.

 

 

[ExNihilo]

I don't understand the hate for this film.  It's not on the level of Winter Soldier, Infinity War, Civil War, or even Guardians of the Galaxy so let's just get that out of the way.  But it's still a solid film.  The biggest gripe about the film is its pacing and the abundance of exposition.  But there are like 9 new characters that need to be introduced with backgrounds and motivations fleshed out.  It's a tall order and the film does its best to give the characters their own voice with the limited screen time they're given.  As someone who has sat through Clone Wars and Rebels early seasons where episodes sacrifice flashy fight scenes in favor of character building, I'm a-okay with this because it means there's more to explore in future films.  I liked the style of storytelling interweaving the past and the present.  It's different and I think a lot of people probably wanted more action.  Which is weird, because those are probably the same people who complain that Marvel movies all follow the same cookie cutter formula and now they get something different so they complain about that too.  I love how our assortment of heroes are all flawed in different ways.  It makes them...human...despite being immortal "gods".  Perhaps it's because I went in knowing that Chloe Zhao now has an Academy Award in her back pocket, but the style of storytelling just feels more...Oscareque.  That's not to say I see it as an Oscar worthy movie, but the constant flashbacks feels more at home in an award winning movie than it does Marvel (think Gladiator).  Lastly, the display of their individual powers was really well done and made each of them feel unique.  Similarly, I loved seeing them work as a team and the inter-team familial relationships that developed.  As a result, the film felt like it had more heart and depth than some of the prior Marvel films.  The film lacks pizzazz.  Blockbuster fight sequences.  But I think it does a good job of laying a foundation for future stories.  Frankly, I'd like to see Chloe Zhao come back for a sequel and I'm interested in seeing where these characters go from here.

Spoiler

I will say this, the feats performed by Makkari (the speedster) were awesome.  I dunno if anyone played Diablo III, but the few times she did her speed attacks followed by a power attack in succession reminded me of the Diablo III Monk's "Seven Sided Strike".  Pretty cool to see that type of move translated to film.

 

[ExNihilo]

On 11/6/2021 at 9:00 PM, fastballspecial said:

I really enjoyed the flashbacks of history being a former history teacher as well. A global style cast was the right move as well.

This was a highlight for me as well.  Kinda cool to see their presence at important periods in time and how they influenced budding human civilizations.  Loved the connection with Greek mythology with Thena being Athena and Phastos being Hephaestus.

Spoiler

And then of course the allegory of Icarus.  A bit too on the nose, but I still thought it was sad seeing him fly into the sun.

 

[@therealsilvermane]

Here are some specific reasons why I think a lot of critics may have  been triggered to collectively curb stomp Eternals. Again, I'll try to be spoiler-free.

1. The many flashbacks. Anybody who has been to a screenwriting class will tell you that it's almost like a First Commandment that thou shalt not use the flashback. It's considered lazy writing, kills narrative momentum, yada yada. Well, Eternals uses quite a few flashbacks. Now, I think they fit the movie as the story features 10 characters who have been around since the Stone Age. I liked the flashbacks. However, I think the many flashbacks triggered a negative reaction in classically trained film critics who have been taught that flashbacks should only be used as a last resort to tell the story. There is one flashback in the movie's middle that does significantly reverse the dramatic momentum built up after a large present day battle scene with dramatic consequences. So yes, I think the many many flashbacks which prevent the present day story's momentum from turning into a chugging narrative locomotion is a big reason for the critical backlash we are seeing.

2. (maybe spoiler here) The way the Eternals are "revealed" to our movie's Everyman. There are three significant "Everyman/woman" characters in Eternals (every MCU film has one, a non-powered human to give an audience POV), and the first one is Dane Whitman. The movie's initial Eternals reveal to Dane is not particularly dramatic and happens quite quickly at the beginning of the movie. I think the norm might be to hide the hero's identity for a while and when the reveal happens, it might be quite a dramatic reveal, like in Batman or Highlander. In Eternals, it's not really like that and is kind of glossed over. I think I myself was expecting a dramatic reveal, but that isn't really the point of the movie. I guess these Eternals live in a world where being a super-hero isn't really that big of a deal. Anyway, I think the movie's less than dramatic approach to the reveal of an Eternal's secret identity as a super-powered immortal to our Everyman might have triggered some critics.

I'm getting tired. That's what I got for now.

Edited November 7, 2021 by @therealsilvermane

[piper]

I liked it… a lot…. way better than Thor Dark World.

I’ll share more thoughts tomorrow.

 

[fastballspecial]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:11 PM, @therealsilvermane said:

Here are some specific reasons why I think a lot of critics may have  been triggered to collectively curb stomp Eternals. Again, I'll try to be spoiler-free.

1. The many flashbacks. Anybody who has been to a screenwriting class will tell you that it's almost like a First Commandment that thou shalt not use the flashback. It's considered lazy writing, kills narrative momentum, yada yada. Well, Eternals uses quite a few flashbacks. Now, I think they fit the movie as the story features 10 characters who have been around since the Stone Age. I liked the flashbacks. However, I think the many flashbacks triggered a negative reaction in classically trained film critics who have been taught that flashbacks should only be used as a last resort to tell the story. There is one flashback in the movie's middle that does significantly reverse the dramatic momentum built up after a large present day battle scene with dramatic consequences. So yes, I think the many many flashbacks which prevent the present day story's momentum from turning into a chugging narrative locomotion is a big reason for the critical backlash we are seeing.

2. (maybe spoiler here) The way the Eternals are "revealed" to our movie's Everyman. I'll just say it that there are three significant "Everyman/woman" in Eternals (as every MCU film has one), and the first is Dane Whitman. The movie's initial reveal to Dane is not particularly dramatic and happens quite quickly at the beginning of the movie. I think the norm might be to hide the hero's identity for a while and when the reveal happens, it might be quite a dramatic reveal, like in Batman or Highlander. In Eternals, it's not really like that and is kind of glossed over. I think I myself was expecting a dramatic reveal, but that isn't really the point of the movie. I guess these Eternals live in a world where being a super-hero isn't really that big of a deal. Anyway, I think the movie's less than dramatic approach to the reveal of the hero's secret identity as immortal to our Everyman might have triggered some critics.

I'm getting tired. That's what I got for now.

This movie just like Highlander really had no choice, but to use Flashbacks. When you are dealing with 5,000 years you go in knowing there will be flashbacks. 

I agree Dane Whitman was an after thought and was handled not well.

Edited November 7, 2021 by fastballspecial

[piper]

On 11/6/2021 at 10:00 PM, fastballspecial said:

I agree I just got back and I enjoyed. It wasn't perfect, but 7.5 out of 10 maybe an 8.

RT score is 84% for audiences and I think thats about right. I never understood the hate some
Facebook warriors have for this film. I think they changes the made fit for the most part. 

Too many people thought this was another Avengers movie its not. I really enjoyed the flashbacks
of history being a former history teacher as well. A global style cast was the right move as well.

 

 

I loved the historical references.

[Bosco685]

I guess NOW this will work for some. Especially since she admires Zack Snyder. But also an interesting article as it notes by design the Eternals were always outside the rest of the Marvel Universe. So meant to be different.

Quote

Like Zack Snyder before her, Chloé Zhao deconstructs her superheroes and forces them to question their purpose in the world, through meditative and melancholy narrative beats.

 

It’s ironic that much of the criticism of Kirby’s work has followed Zhao in her adaptation. As a comic and a film, The Eternals and Eternals are works, even with their flaws, that encompass so much about what both creators think about existentialism, grand design, and individualism. Zhao has joined the ranks of Richard Donner and Zack Snyder as one of the few filmmakers to fully embrace the mythological aspects of these characters. The Snyder comparison is particularly relevant given both filmmakers’ approach to the collective history of the characters explored. And Eternals shares the divisive response to the Snyder’s Man of Steel (2013) and Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016), which similarly took a deconstructive approach to superheroes and forced them to question their purpose in the world, through meditative and melancholy narrative beats, and a tragic yet hopeful ending. In a recent interview with the French site, Film Actu, Zhao cited Snyder as an inspiration for the film, particularly her take on Ikaris (Richard Madden), saying “Of all the modern interpretations of Superman, Zack Snyder’s Man of Steel inspired me the most because he approached this myth in an authentic and very real way…this film left a strong impression on me.”

Quote

As myths these characters can be monumentally flawed, and the things that we take as attributes in most other superhero properties, responsibility, love, agelessness, are explored with the weight of real consequences. Much like Snyder’s DC films, Zhao approaches superheroes differently from the black and white, good and evil morality we so often expect from these films. By looking at superheroes as myths they become more than wish-fulfilling entertainment, they become humanist experiences, representing the full swath of what it means to live as a human, to rise and fall in true Icarian fashion. Zhao goes a step further from the norm in that Eternals has no real villain. Characters take dark turns, betray and abandon each other, but this comes from a place of identity, who they inherently are rather than what they become. Zhao imagines how difficult it would be for beings who have existed for millennia to truly change, even when burdened with new information. The search for purpose and the inability to change course once that purpose has been found has been an element throughout all of Zhao’s films, and I’d argue that despite the superpowers and action sequences, Zhao isn’t out of her wheelhouse, but playing out the events of her previous films on a larger tapestry.

 

[valiantman]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:28 PM, Oddball said:

You assume a lot. About me and whether or not I have graded comics? Not sure how that’s relevant but if you say so.

You dismissed a movie you pirated after watching a couple minutes in a discussion about the movie on a messageboard run by a company that you don't own their products. 

If anything (or anyone) is irrelevant here, I think it's obvious.

[@therealsilvermane]

A third reason I theorize for the critic pig pile goes back to the flashbacks. I really do think this element of the movie's story is key to why so many critics honestly bashed the film. I'm not sure if the following is a spoiler, I don't think it is. Anyway, most of the flashbacks do not directly address the mission or story at hand but rather give us details about a particular Eternals' story. Indirectly, though, the flashbacks do give us insight as to why particular Eternals act the way they do in the present story. In this way, the story can seem as if it isn't a super tight narrative about the present day situation, and it's not supposed to be. The present day situation is rather simple. What's more complex is each individual Eternal and their relationship to each other. 

After sleeping on it a night, I do believe even more that Eternals is now my favorite MCU film. At his point, I could care less what critics think or how much it makes at the box office. I'm just glad this particular film exists.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/7/2021 at 3:59 AM, Bosco685 said:

I guess NOW this will work for some. Especially since she admires Zack Snyder. But also an interesting article as it notes by design the Eternals were always outside the rest of the Marvel Universe. So meant to be different.

 

At this point, I don't think Eternals is dividing audiences per the Hollywood Reporter headline above. It's the critics who are divided at nearly 50%. On RT and on other social media, audiences are generally saying they liked or loved Eternals. At the theater yesterday, as the credits rolled and a large family in the row in front of me waited for the final credit scene, a young boy got up and hilariously asked each member of his group "Did you like the movie?" down the row. They all answered "Yes" and the boy gave them all a high five. In the hallway, folks coming out of the screening talked about the implications of what they just saw and seemed to be positive about the movie. Eternals no doubt has its pre-haters, but people without that prenatal hate in their heart all seem to agree that Eternals is a good and enjoyable movie.

[TupennyConan]

On 11/7/2021 at 9:40 AM, @therealsilvermane said:

 prenatal hate in their heart

All the positive reactions to BW & SC confused me.

Same with the heartfelt prenatal hate for Eternals.

On the other hand, I dgaf what audiences think, except to the extent that this thread entertains me & I don't want the MCU to collapse, & along with it, the value of my books. 

[WEBHEAD]

On 11/7/2021 at 12:03 AM, ExNihilo said:

I don't understand the hate for this film.  It's not on the level of Winter Soldier, Infinity War, Civil War, or even Guardians of the Galaxy so let's just get that out of the way.  But it's still a solid film.  The biggest gripe about the film is its pacing and the abundance of exposition.  But there are like 9 new characters that need to be introduced with backgrounds and motivations fleshed out.  It's a tall order and the film does its best to give the characters their own voice with the limited screen time they're given.  As someone who has sat through Clone Wars and Rebels early seasons where episodes sacrifice flashy fight scenes in favor of character building, I'm a-okay with this because it means there's more to explore in future films.  I liked the style of storytelling interweaving the past and the present.  It's different and I think a lot of people probably wanted more action.  Which is weird, because those are probably the same people who complain that Marvel movies all follow the same cookie cutter formula and now they get something different so they complain about that too.  I love how our assortment of heroes are all flawed in different ways.  It makes them...human...despite being immortal "gods".  Perhaps it's because I went in knowing that Chloe Zhao now has an Academy Award in her back pocket, but the style of storytelling just feels more...Oscareque.  That's not to say I see it as an Oscar worthy movie, but the constant flashbacks feels more at home in an award winning movie than it does Marvel (think Gladiator).  Lastly, the display of their individual powers was really well done and made each of them feel unique.  Similarly, I loved seeing them work as a team and the inter-team familial relationships that developed.  As a result, the film felt like it had more heart and depth than some of the prior Marvel films.  The film lacks pizzazz.  Blockbuster fight sequences.  But I think it does a good job of laying a foundation for future stories.  Frankly, I'd like to see Chloe Zhao come back for a sequel and I'm interested in seeing where these characters go from here.

  Reveal hidden contents

I will say this, the feats performed by Makkari (the speedster) were awesome.  I dunno if anyone played Diablo III, but the few times she did her speed attacks followed by a power attack in succession reminded me of the Diablo III Monk's "Seven Sided Strike".  Pretty cool to see that type of move translated to film.

 

I agree with many of your points this movie needed an intro movie showing more of their origon it was too long and the first hour took too much time trying to introduce them why are they so important and the basic premise which I must have missed in reading the books this "Super Eternal was responsible for the creation?"  therefore every X-thousand years you destroy that world just so another bunch of planets can get seeded?  I give it a 4 on premise 8 for the second half. IMHO

[fastballspecial]

On 11/7/2021 at 9:38 AM, WEBHEAD said:

I agree with many of your points this movie needed an intro movie showing more of their origon it was too long and the first hour took too much time trying to introduce them why are they so important and the basic premise which I must have missed in reading the books this "Super Eternal was responsible for the creation?"  therefore every X-thousand years you destroy that world just so another bunch of planets can get seeded?  I give it a 4 on premise 8 for the second half. IMHO

Really I like this premise. For many years they didn't reveal what the Celestials did with planets they deemed unworthy until a story in the Thor 400s I think Black galaxy showed that the Celestials basically seal a planet to allow it to prosper again and wipe out bad elements. 

I like the change here on the Celestials. I was curious to see how they were going to do it. I didn't like the change to the Eternals, but I can see how it was easier to do that to them. I thought it tied together nicely about how energy is created over time. 

Its actually I think the ground work for Galactus.

And yes I agree the beginning could have moved faster.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by fastballspecial

[▫️]

On 11/7/2021 at 4:40 PM, valiantman said:

You dismissed a movie you pirated after watching a couple minutes in a discussion about the movie on a messageboard run by a company that you don't own their products. 

If anything (or anyone) is irrelevant here, I think it's obvious.

Are you listening to yourself? I didn’t pirate any movie. I didn’t download or distribute anything. I didn’t view it via peer to peer. The movie is available to stream online and it is not illegal for a viewer to stream unlicensed content. At least as of December 2020. The other false statement you made is that I don’t own any products from this company. I have posted my collection here over the years so are there any other lies you would like to state about someone you do not know? Don’t hurt your credibility by making any further assumptions.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Oddball

[TupennyConan]

On 11/7/2021 at 10:51 AM, fastballspecial said:

Its actually I think the ground work for Galactus.

Agreed.

Galactus will be a rogue Celestial who feeds on worlds with incubating Celestials, ripe for emergence, and therefore large populations.

That is, Galactus won't be after the planet or its people but the Celestial just prior to birth [prenatal hate]. 

Or something.  

Also, Galactus will be the cause of the Deviants' failure.

Doom will trick him & kick off the Celestial War.

Or something. 

Edited November 7, 2021 by TupennyConan
fully rewritten

[WeR138]

Saw it. Thought it was probably as entertaining as Shang-Chi.  Seemed like they could easily have cut 30 minutes at least and still have a coherent plot.  Really enjoyed some characters and others I found to be either uninteresting or miscast (I'm looking at you Druig.)

Some really emotional scenes in this one.

And despite that I can see where a lot of Marvel audiences won't dig it. Attention spans and all.

I'm giving it a C+/B-

[paperheart]

$71MM US, $91MM Int'l; the int'l # is pretty good

[Frederic9494]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:03 AM, WeR138 said:

 Really enjoyed some characters and others I found to be either uninteresting or miscast (I'm looking at you Druig.)

I liked Druig even though he didn't end up as a villain like in the comics. Chemistry with Makkari was great. 

Out of the cast, Barry Keoghan gave one of the best performance in this movie.

[@therealsilvermane]

On 11/7/2021 at 12:11 PM, Frederic9494 said:

I liked Druig even though he didn't end up as a villain like in the comics. Chemistry with Makkari was great. 

Out of the cast, Barry Keoghan gave one of the best performance in this movie.

Yes, I thought Barry Keoghan was great as the Eternal with an attitude, I just had a hard time understanding his weird accent at times.