Disney+'s STAR WARS: THE ACOLYTE (2023?) 7 7

[s-man]

On 7/14/2024 at 10:19 PM, drotto said:

Think it is as simple as she knew it was important to her sister and she wanted to destroy it.  They really did not give it any more importance. Kid destroys the other kids favorite "toy" because they were mad at them. 

 

What I am still puzzling over is how that caused the entire base to blow up. 

In the SW universe, fire exists in space and stone can burn 

[fantastic_four]

Anyone know anything about whatever it was those witches were doing that made them turn into black smoke? I was particularly surprised that when Sol ignited his lightsaber that it still stabbed that witch whose body you couldn't even see. I guess when they're in that smoke form their human body actually does still exist, but you just can't see it?  

[I like pie]

On 7/15/2024 at 7:33 AM, fantastic_four said:

Anyone know anything about whatever it was those witches were doing that made them turn into black smoke? I was particularly surprised that when Sol ignited his lightsaber that it still stabbed that witch whose body you couldn't even see. I guess when they're in that smoke form their human body actually does still exist, but you just can't see it?  

These witches, as far as I know, are new to Star Wars. They are aware of the night sisters but it seems unclear how they are related yet.

That whole scene was done in slow motion, so I would assume he got her before she was completely phased out

[fantastic_four]

Star Wars as we see in the films is mostly science fiction with one major fantasy element--the Force.  I'm not a huge fan of them introducing more and more fantasy elements into the universe, so my immediate reaction to the turn-into-black-smoke power wasn't great.

I suppose Lucas set the precedent though by doing it himself from film to film with every new bit of fantasy just being another Force power we hadn't seen until then.  Mind control and Obi-Wan disappearing when hit with a saber were big ones in Episode IV, incredibly powerful telekinesis and Obi-Wan as a Force ghost were big ones in Episode V, and Force lightning was the big one in Episode VI.  I'm sure every film after that introduced something new as well.  Subsequent authors are really just doing the same thing Lucas did in new ways, so I should just stop complaining about people mixing peanut butter into my chocolate until I've given it a longer try.  

[awakeintheashes]

On 7/15/2024 at 10:45 AM, fantastic_four said:

Star Wars as we see in the films is mostly science fiction with one major fantasy element--the Force.  I'm not a huge fan of them introducing more and more fantasy elements into the universe, so my immediate reaction to the turn-into-black-smoke power wasn't great.

I suppose Lucas set the precedent though by doing it himself from film to film with every new bit of fantasy just being another Force power we hadn't seen until then.  Mind control and Obi-Wan disappearing when hit with a saber were big ones in Episode IV, incredibly powerful telekinesis and Obi-Wan as a Force ghost were big ones in Episode V, and Force lightning was the big one in Episode VI.  I'm sure every film after that introduced something new as well.  Subsequent authors are really just doing the same thing Lucas did in new ways, so I should just stop complaining about people mixing peanut butter into my chocolate until I've given it a longer try.  

I believe Lucas himself called Star Wars Science Fantasy. This allowed him to introduce stuff that didn’t really need to have an explanation. He felt that 2001: A Space Odyssey was science fiction executed perfectly. He took a more fantasy approach to Star Wars for a reason. 

[drotto]

On 7/14/2024 at 11:27 PM, s-man said:

In the SW universe, fire exists in space and stone can burn 

At least when ships burned, you could make the agreement that the oxygen from the life support systems were feeding it.  Granted, they never explain noise in space, other than movies that are silent are dull to audiences.

[Buzzetta]

In relation to the smoke... 

Lucas and Filoni toyed with that in the Clone Wars when they introduced the Nightsisters.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Spirit_ichor

I had to look it up as I forgot the name.  They had a green mist though that could seemingly shift users between the physical and non physical realm. 

And no one can say that Disney did this.  This was all Lucas as the Clone Wars was under his supervision. 

Quote

 

Spirit ichor could be manipulated in a large variety of ways by a shaman, primarily using it as a medium to access the Force. A powerful enough shaman could manipulate spirit ichor into physical objects, as demonstrated by Mother Talzin during the Clone Wars, who created a goblet of blackroot for Count Dooku when he visited Dathomir. Mother Talzin was also seen later to fashion a cybernetic lower half for her son, Darth Maul, as well as conjure a sword wreathed in glowing green mist in order to combat Jedi Master Mace Windu, her blade being able to easily counter Windu's own lightsaber. Spirit ichor could also be used for divination, mesmerism, totem magic, inducing trancelike states, temporarily reanimating the dead, producing the Water of Life for healing purposes, projecting lightning and energy barriers and other uses.

As Mother Talzin did for Asajj Ventress, Naa'leth, and Karis, spirit ichor could be manipulated to produce a mist that allowed assassins to operate "midway" between the physical and spirit realms, cloaking them with near-invisibility. Savage Opress was also transformed into an avatar of primal anger by Talzin and a coven of spellcasters via spirit ichor, granted him an enhanced physicality as well as an advanced connection with and ability to use the Force that allowed him to contend with experienced Jedi such as Anakin Skywalker Obi-Wan Kenobi as well as Sith such as Count Dooku and even Darth Sidious for a time.

 

 

Edited July 15 by Buzzetta

[awakeintheashes]

I saw him skulking about!

Also, Vern was much better this episode. It’s a shame she didn’t get the earlier episodes to learn what she was about during this time of the HR. 

Pretty happy with how they ended it. Doesn’t need a season two but would be nice to get one to answer some pretty big questions.

[awakeintheashes]

I think 

Spoiler

Plagueis is hunting his dead master’s (Tenebrous) other apprentice (Q’imir/Venamis). 

Q’imir knows Tenebrous is dead so he’s training a new apprentice (Osha/Mae), but he doesn’t know or doesn’t care

Spoiler

Plagueis out and about  

Maybe if we get a season 2, we get a sith on sith battle. 

Edited July 17 by awakeintheashes

[Silver Surfer]

OMG I’ll let people watch this before I give my two cents on this garbage. I think they already pulled the plug on season 2 thankfully. Has anyone won an award for being the worst actress while playing two roles in one movie? 

[I like pie]

I'll binge watch the show, now that's it's complete but, overall, I'd give it a solid 7/10.

The duels were definitely the best part for me. The choreography was very well done.

I wasn't left feeling interested in what happens to the "twins" but another show focused on the Plagueis/Qimir connection would be welcomed.

Edited July 17 by I like pie

[Silver Surfer]

Part 2 plot, “ it’s a man’s fault”.  Worse line in movie history. 

[drotto]

I am sorry, this show completely goes against what Star Wars is. I am not saying the Jedi are not flawed, and there are not some grey areas, but at it's core it is about good verses evil. It is about the heroes journey. It is about redemption. So having your protagonist (the defactor hero of the story) choke her formor mentor to death, and decide to become Sith is not Star Wars. The Sith have always been shown unequivocally evil, even if individuals fall to the dark side and are later redeemed.

 

This show is the villain's journey, and the hero from the start of the the show instead of learning mercy, instead of showing forgiveness learns to kill without remorse, and chooses to be Sith. It was shown as a calm, reasoned choise. Not to mention here the Sith are the good guys, despite the fact that they kill without remote, are selfish, and are power hungry.  What a set of morals to present.  This is very different from Anakin who was corrupted over time arguably driven into madness, similar to someone who is indoctrinated into a cult. It was simple created to destroy the Jedi, and quit frankly the moral foundation and messaging of the entire IP.

 

Sure, choise is to subvert expectations, but realize when you do and are fundamentally changing an IP, you are going to alienate a massive portion of you fan base. And that is what has happened here. That gets even worse when it is couple with poor writing which leads to; ill defined motivations, unexplained plot points, failure to resolve major plot points, constenr contradictions in the narrative, and poorly developed characters.

 

 

[awakeintheashes]

On 7/17/2024 at 11:30 AM, drotto said:

I am sorry, this show completely goes against what Star Wars is. I am not saying the Jedi are not flawed, and there are not some grey areas, but at it's core it is about good verses evil. It is about the heroes journey. It is about redemption. So having your protagonist (the defactor hero of the story) choke her formor mentor to death, and decide to become Sith is not Star Wars. The Sith have always been shown unequivocally evil, even if individuals fall to the dark side and are later redeemed.

 

This show is the villain's journey, and the hero from the start of the the show instead of learning mercy, instead of showing forgiveness learns to kill without remorse, and chooses to be Sith. It was shown as a calm, reasoned choise. Not to mention here the Sith are the good guys, despite the fact that they kill without remote, are selfish, and are power hungry.  What a set of morals to present.  This is very different from Anakin who was corrupted over time arguably driven into madness, similar to someone who is indoctrinated into a cult. It was simple created to destroy the Jedi, and quit frankly the moral foundation and messaging of the entire IP.

 

Sure, choise is to subvert expectations, but realize when you do and are fundamentally changing an IP, you are going to alienate a massive portion of you fan base. And that is what has happened here. That gets even worse when it is couple with poor writing which leads to; ill defined motivations, unexplained plot points, failure to resolve major plot points, constenr contradictions in the narrative, and poorly developed characters.

 

 

I hear what you’re saying here, but this show was never promoted as a heroes journey. Before the show even premiered it was communicated that this show was about the sith and the sith coming out of the shadows. 

I have no issue with this approach as it’s not really new. There have been dark Jedi in canon and we’ve seen characters like Dooku become completely jaded by the republic and Jedi order that they turned to the dark side completely by ultimately killing Yaddle. That was a calculated slow burn. No madness involved. 

I get it that people want the good Jedi hero journey, which there is plenty of media focusing on that. I’m glad there is a variety of options. 

[drotto]

On 7/17/2024 at 11:52 AM, awakeintheashes said:

I hear what you’re saying here, but this show was never promoted as a heroes journey. Before the show even premiered it was communicated that this show was about the sith and the sith coming out of the shadows. 

I have no issue with this approach as it’s not really new. There have been dark Jedi in canon and we’ve seen characters like Dooku become completely jaded by the republic and Jedi order that they turned to the dark side completely by ultimately killing Yaddle. That was a calculated slow burn. No madness involved. 

I get it that people want the good Jedi hero journey, which there is plenty of media focusing on that. I’m glad there is a variety of options. 

I see your point, but with the poor writing, acting, etc, they failed to earn what they were going for.

[awakeintheashes]

On 7/17/2024 at 12:11 PM, drotto said:

I see your point, but with the poor writing, acting, etc, they failed to earn what they were going for.

That is always needed to tell a story. I feel that some episodes were stronger than others in regard to the writing, but as a whole, yes, the caliber of writing hamstrung the show. 

I enjoyed it, but it’s because I’ve been interested in this period of Star Wars for the last couple years. With that said, I’m not blind to the fact that it had its weaknesses and could have been much better. 

[godzilla43]

I would give this show 3/5. Last episode was a satisfying conclusion to what happened to those witches. There was some bad directing like that sith hiding in the shadows and a certain cameo before the credits. Also when the main character decides to kill someone she should be angry not like whatever. She is not mad person like the Joker.

Edited July 17 by godzilla43

[drotto]

On 7/17/2024 at 12:17 PM, awakeintheashes said:

That is always needed to tell a story. I feel that some episodes were stronger than others in regard to the writing, but as a whole, yes, the caliber of writing hamstrung the show. 

I enjoyed it, but it’s because I’ve been interested in this period of Star Wars for the last couple years. With that said, I’m not blind to the fact that it had its weaknesses and could have been much better. 

Ultimately, for me Star Wars is about hope, and optimism.  That ultimately good will triumph. I love plenty of dark, brooding, and cynical shows, but to take something that was different than that and try to morph it into yet another dystopia takes away it's essence, and it's uniqueness in today's world. To the extent when it came out in 1977 it was the antithesis of what movies had been for the previous decade. That is part of why it was loved. Now they just want it to fit in the current mold.

 

This is just another mean and cynical show.

Edited July 17 by drotto

[alexgross.com]

i finally watched the first three episodes. the first two were good enough to keep me interested, though it felt like B level stuff compared to Andor. the third episode ended my interest almost completely. the origin story of the twins and how the jedi came to ruin their lives. 

the actress who played the kids' mom was wonderful. that's the only good thing i could say about the episode.

i won't bother to list the silly things that irritated me about it since so many have already done so. but i don't plan to watch any more episodes of this show or any more new star wars shows. 

i tried it because the family is away and i have more free time than usual. the only star wars show i have enjoyed was ANDOR. i'll watch a second season of that if they make it. some of mandalorian was good too, interspersed with many bad ones. bill burr's eps were my favorites. 

[Silver Surfer]

More boo hoo, so tiresome.