Does anyone here still buy current books?

[rob_react]

'm stuck in the past. That's partly due to nostalgia, but mostly it's because I think the books of yesteryear were just plain better. Better stories, better art. A lot of that has to do with the simplicity of the books back then.

 

That's an interesting bit of perspective for me. Using simplicity as the arbiter of quality...

 

Personally, if comics still had the same simple, straightforward approach they had back in the "good old days" I wouldn't be here today. While I agree that publishers would be well-served to produce inexpensive material on cheap paper for kids (of course, Manga publishers already do this,) if comics hadn't become more sophisticated I would have bored of them before I broke through to my teens. While I do enjoy comics from all eras, if the simple, Silver Age style had remained the norm and people like Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Howard Chaykin hadn't put their mark on comics in the 80s with complicated, challenging work I would have just given up on comics altogether. As it stands, comics go toe to toe with novels and cinema in my personal media landscape and more than hold their own.

[rjpb]

'm stuck in the past. That's partly due to nostalgia, but mostly it's because I think the books of yesteryear were just plain better. Better stories, better art. A lot of that has to do with the simplicity of the books back then.

 

That's an interesting bit of perspective for me. Using simplicity as the arbiter of quality...

 

Personally, if comics still had the same simple, straightforward approach they had back in the "good old days" I wouldn't be here today. While I agree that publishers would be well-served to produce inexpensive material on cheap paper for kids (of course, Manga publishers already do this,) if comics hadn't become more sophisticated I would have bored of them before I broke through to my teens. While I do enjoy comics from all eras, if the simple, Silver Age style had remained the norm and people like Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Howard Chaykin hadn't put their mark on comics in the 80s with complicated, challenging work I would have just given up on comics altogether. As it stands, comics go toe to toe with novels and cinema in my personal media landscape and more than hold their own.

 

Amen to that! I think the elevation of SA books in general over anything that is produced now is purely the result of nostalgia - perhaps agravated by the perception that a favorite title or character falls far short of the glory days of the past, but to dismiss the entire medium

because a favorite title of youth falls short creatively is like saying there's been no good rock and roll for the last 25 years because the Rolling Stones haven't produced a decent album since the early 80s. There is nothing wrong with feeling the SA was a highpoint (at least for certain genres), but there have been alot of great comics produced in the 35 years since it ended - many of them far more creatively daring than one would have expected, outside the realm of undergrounds, in 1970.

[Scrooge]

'm stuck in the past. That's partly due to nostalgia, but mostly it's because I think the books of yesteryear were just plain better. Better stories, better art. A lot of that has to do with the simplicity of the books back then.

 

That's an interesting bit of perspective for me. Using simplicity as the arbiter of quality...

 

Personally, if comics still had the same simple, straightforward approach they had back in the "good old days" I wouldn't be here today. While I agree that publishers would be well-served to produce inexpensive material on cheap paper for kids (of course, Manga publishers already do this,) if comics hadn't become more sophisticated I would have bored of them before I broke through to my teens. While I do enjoy comics from all eras, if the simple, Silver Age style had remained the norm and people like Alan Moore, Frank Miller, Howard Chaykin hadn't put their mark on comics in the 80s with complicated, challenging work I would have just given up on comics altogether. As it stands, comics go toe to toe with novels and cinema in my personal media landscape and more than hold their own.

 

Amen to that! I think the elevation of SA books in general over anything that is produced now is purely the result of nostalgia - perhaps agravated by the perception that a favorite title or character falls far short of the glory days of the past, but to dismiss the entire medium

because a favorite title of youth falls short creatively is like saying there's been no good rock and roll for the last 25 years because the Rolling Stones haven't produced a decent album since the early 80s. There is nothing wrong with feeling the SA was a highpoint (at least for certain genres), but there have been alot of great comics produced in the 35 years since it ended - many of them far more creatively daring than one would have expected, outside the realm of undergrounds, in 1970.

 

rj, I whole-heartedly agree with you. I made that same connection last night about people not listening to music past 1980 because it just wasn't the same anymore and the proliferation of specialised radio stations to cater to distinct markets: Oldies, 70s Rock, 80s and so on. While I understand the appeal of such outlets to people, it has always struck me as surprising how one could not want to know more about other aspects of a medium.

 

One can have a preference for a particular comic era but when it is to the extent of ignoring recent work (or vice versa, modern readers not willing to go back to read BA, SA or GA) is a puzzle to me. There is a clear connection from the artistic point of view (pencils) that today's artists stand on the shoulders of those who came before them. As is, a complete appreciation can only come from a complete education which involves AT LEAST an overview of the past as well as the present. In a few of the comments posted in this thread, it appears that commitment was not done: no proper chance was given to current output. Far from me to say that you should like some current material but we can all agree that they are deserving a consideration. (To some extent, this is also true of the writing but I am not as well versed in that element to comment properly).

 

I will grant the "nostalgists" that the choice of most moderns I read (upon reflexion (sp?)) are driven mostly by the writing rather than the art (e.g., Y, JSA, Runaways, Gotham Central, Ex-Machina, Tom Strong, Age of Bronze) and some for the combination (e.g., Conan, Fables, SiP). Yet, as mentioned in this thread (or check out the OA section about "good investment artists" for other names) there are outstanding new generation artists (not of the flash in the pan kind) you should at least examine. I personally like to expand my knowledge of the media and be able to equally appreciate different era artists ranging from Caniff to Jack Cole to Uderzo to (1970s) Joe Kubert to Bruce Timm.

[That Ron Dude]

The last new book I bought was Hate #30.

 

When I do get to read or lack at a new book it occasionally does something for me. I am sure that I would enjoy Sin City, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and many others but I am on a budget. I spend what I have on the old comics and let the new ones go by.

 

I do get a certain joy from knowing that my old purchases usually retain or increase in value while the new ones will be worth almost nothing the second after I buy them.

[rob_react]

I do get a certain joy from knowing that my old purchases usually retain or increase in value while the new ones will be worth almost nothing the second after I buy them.

 

Is that why you buy DVDs? How about books? How's the ROI on a beer? Comics can be entertainment without being collectible. Actually, that's a PREFERABLE attitude for the health of the medium.

[rjpb]

The last new book I bought was Hate #30.

 

You're not buying the Hate Annuals?

[Silverspider]

 

Is that why you buy DVDs? How about books? How's the ROI on a beer? Comics can be entertainment without being collectible. Actually, that's a PREFERABLE attitude for the health of the medium.

 

 

Ya, but doesn't it make you feel better knowing you could at least make your money back on a purchase?

[rob_react]

 

Is that why you buy DVDs? How about books? How's the ROI on a beer? Comics can be entertainment without being collectible. Actually, that's a PREFERABLE attitude for the health of the medium.

 

 

Ya, but doesn't it make you feel better knowing you could at least make your money back on a purchase?

 

Feel better than what?

 

Like the DVDs, books, dinners, bottles of wine, etc. etc. etc. that I spend my money on, the potential resale value of the books I buy every Wednesday doesn't play ANY part in my enjoyment of them. I buy new books to r.e.a.d. I don't even bag and board them. If I make money back when I get rid of them, that's great. If I end up donating them to Comics 4 Kids, that's cool too. I don't really care, since the money spent was nothing more than entertainment dollars. Push the collector dollar signs out of your head and think about comics as pure entertainment for just a moment you'll hopefully understand my perspective.

[Silverspider]

 

Is that why you buy DVDs? How about books? How's the ROI on a beer? Comics can be entertainment without being collectible. Actually, that's a PREFERABLE attitude for the health of the medium.

 

 

Ya, but doesn't it make you feel better knowing you could at least make your money back on a purchase?

 

Feel better than what?

 

Like the DVDs, books, dinners, bottles of wine, etc. etc. etc. that I spend my money on, the potential resale value of the books I buy every Wednesday doesn't play ANY part in my enjoyment of them. I buy new books to r.e.a.d. I don't even bag and board them. If I make money back when I get rid of them, that's great. If I end up donating them to Comics 4 Kids, that's cool too. I don't really care, since the money spent was nothing more than entertainment dollars. Push the collector dollar signs out of your head and think about comics as pure entertainment for just a moment you'll hopefully understand my perspective.

 

Well I guess that means you have more money to WASTE then I do.

 

I'am sorry but as far as I'am concerned the majority of todays books are unreadable and a total waste of time and money. Most have stories that go nowhere, bad art(gotta love that anime). and then publish a trade that you could have waited to buy anyway. Nuff' said!

[Scrooge]

 

Is that why you buy DVDs? How about books? How's the ROI on a beer? Comics can be entertainment without being collectible. Actually, that's a PREFERABLE attitude for the health of the medium.

 

 

Ya, but doesn't it make you feel better knowing you could at least make your money back on a purchase?

 

Feel better than what?

 

Like the DVDs, books, dinners, bottles of wine, etc. etc. etc. that I spend my money on, the potential resale value of the books I buy every Wednesday doesn't play ANY part in my enjoyment of them. I buy new books to r.e.a.d. I don't even bag and board them. If I make money back when I get rid of them, that's great. If I end up donating them to Comics 4 Kids, that's cool too. I don't really care, since the money spent was nothing more than entertainment dollars. Push the collector dollar signs out of your head and think about comics as pure entertainment for just a moment you'll hopefully understand my perspective.

 

Well I guess that means you have more money to WASTE then I do.

 

I'am sorry but as far as I'am concerned the majority of todays books are unreadable and a total waste of time and money. Most have stories that go nowhere, bad art(gotta love that anime). and then publish a trade that you could have waited to buy anyway. Nuff' said!

 

Weeeelllll, that's a pretty strong blanket statement about the state of the modern market (esp. from someone claiming not to follow that much). Let me see... Yes a lot of books at times lose their focus and are headed nowhere. Yes, if you dislike elements from anime getting into some current artists' styles, you have the right to dislike that "brand" of art and btw that's not going to get any better as we are seeing a confluence of European and "Asian" and American styles in the work of the youngest European generation as well as the youngest American generation of artists so your opinion is unlikely to change soon. (I don't quite get the comment about trades).

 

Still, it is not the whole market. Let me ask you a question though. Could you share with us which SA series you like best and what in the storytelling is so compelling to you that nothing compares? This would help me (us) understand your stance.

[Silverspider]

My comment about the trades is basically this; Do I buy every issue of THe House Of M or do I wait and save $100.00 and buy the trade when it come out 3 months later?

 

As far as Silverage goes by far my favourite run is AMS #1-50. These stories bring the reader into them in a way that hasn't been acheived in the last 10 years at least! I dare anyone to name a modern series that compares.

 

I buy old books because I like them. People buy whatever they want that they find enjoyment in.

 

For me that doesn't include new comics.

[rob_react]

 

Is that why you buy DVDs? How about books? How's the ROI on a beer? Comics can be entertainment without being collectible. Actually, that's a PREFERABLE attitude for the health of the medium.

 

 

Ya, but doesn't it make you feel better knowing you could at least make your money back on a purchase?

 

Feel better than what?

 

Like the DVDs, books, dinners, bottles of wine, etc. etc. etc. that I spend my money on, the potential resale value of the books I buy every Wednesday doesn't play ANY part in my enjoyment of them. I buy new books to r.e.a.d. I don't even bag and board them. If I make money back when I get rid of them, that's great. If I end up donating them to Comics 4 Kids, that's cool too. I don't really care, since the money spent was nothing more than entertainment dollars. Push the collector dollar signs out of your head and think about comics as pure entertainment for just a moment you'll hopefully understand my perspective.

 

Well I guess that means you have more money to WASTE then I do.

 

I'am sorry but as far as I'am concerned the majority of todays books are unreadable and a total waste of time and money. Most have stories that go nowhere, bad art(gotta love that anime). and then publish a trade that you could have waited to buy anyway. Nuff' said!

 

Thanks for that well-reasoned response!

[DKB]

Just this morning I got done reading the latest Daredevil arc. Decalogue. Amazing stuff that. After I put it down, I remembered, books that good tend to transcend the superhero genre. Anyone who is open minded about the medium can enjoy it cause it's just good. My fiancee reads it and can't get enough. I guarantee you she'd laugh her head off after getting half way through ASM 1 on her way to attempting to read 1-50. I certainly get a chuckle out of them. If comics had a means to market itself, books like Daredevil would sell through. I've put it in the hands of three people who were either otherwise disinclined to read comics or just gave up on them in the early 90s, and I practically have a waiting list so they can read arcs after I've finished them. Daredevil gets couriered around by me to houses scattered around DC.

 

If funds permitted, Silver Age would be the primary place I'd spend most of my hobby dollars. They're neat, fun. The beginning, the source of everything that I've enjoyed the past 19 years.

 

Its my dream -- three times loftier and more important than any other in this hobby -- to get a nicely graded run of of Spidey from 1 to NOW. 85% of the way there in numbers, 10% of the way there in cost. But I'm in no hurry to read that stuff, and its not only because I don't want to handle them. I love Spidey and I crave to possess it all, but there's just no way those old books will be halfway as entertaining as the best of what I'm reading now. If my two long boxes of "Stuff To Read" runs out, and God I hope it does, I might read the Masterworks I bought awhile back for nostalgia's sake. Just to have Read Those Books.

 

But there's a reason why comics don't read like that anymore. If they did, there'd probably be no more comics. Because of the price, and other things, the lion's share of buyers of new books today are 20-50 year old men, most of whom want stories written...for 20-50 year old men.

 

Read some of Bendis' Daredevil, or any of the other stuff mentioned in this thread, it might not be what you want from comics, the catch phrases and puffed out chests, but its hard to argue that it isn't good storytelling. The best of what's out there now might provide you the sort of entertainment you normally get from books, or TV, or the movies, rather than what you are expecting from comics. I guess that's just how comics have evolved.

[joe_collector]

I guess that's just how comics have evolved.

 

... some would say devolved.

[Silverspider]

 

Is that why you buy DVDs? How about books? How's the ROI on a beer? Comics can be entertainment without being collectible. Actually, that's a PREFERABLE attitude for the health of the medium.

 

 

Ya, but doesn't it make you feel better knowing you could at least make your money back on a purchase?

 

Feel better than what?

 

Like the DVDs, books, dinners, bottles of wine, etc. etc. etc. that I spend my money on, the potential resale value of the books I buy every Wednesday doesn't play ANY part in my enjoyment of them. I buy new books to r.e.a.d. I don't even bag and board them. If I make money back when I get rid of them, that's great. If I end up donating them to Comics 4 Kids, that's cool too. I don't really care, since the money spent was nothing more than entertainment dollars. Push the collector dollar signs out of your head and think about comics as pure entertainment for just a moment you'll hopefully understand my perspective.

 

Well I guess that means you have more money to WASTE then I do.

 

I'am sorry but as far as I'am concerned the majority of todays books are unreadable and a total waste of time and money. Most have stories that go nowhere, bad art(gotta love that anime). and then publish a trade that you could have waited to buy anyway. Nuff' said!

 

Thanks for that well-reasoned response!

 

Apparently more time to waste then I do as well!!!!!!!!

[goldust40]

 

Is that why you buy DVDs? How about books? How's the ROI on a beer? Comics can be entertainment without being collectible. Actually, that's a PREFERABLE attitude for the health of the medium.

 

 

Ya, but doesn't it make you feel better knowing you could at least make your money back on a purchase?

 

Feel better than what?

 

Like the DVDs, books, dinners, bottles of wine, etc. etc. etc. that I spend my money on, the potential resale value of the books I buy every Wednesday doesn't play ANY part in my enjoyment of them. I buy new books to r.e.a.d. I don't even bag and board them. If I make money back when I get rid of them, that's great. If I end up donating them to Comics 4 Kids, that's cool too. I don't really care, since the money spent was nothing more than entertainment dollars. Push the collector dollar signs out of your head and think about comics as pure entertainment for just a moment you'll hopefully understand my perspective.

 

Well I guess that means you have more money to WASTE then I do.

 

I'am sorry but as far as I'am concerned the majority of todays books are unreadable and a total waste of time and money. Most have stories that go nowhere, bad art(gotta love that anime). and then publish a trade that you could have waited to buy anyway. Nuff' said!

 

Thanks for that well-reasoned response!

 

Apparently more time to waste then I do as well!!!!!!!!

 

Another petulant, self-righteous noob. Please, waste no further time here.........

[Scrooge]

My comment about the trades is basically this; Do I buy every issue of THe House Of M or do I wait and save $100.00 and buy the trade when it come out 3 months later?

 

Save $100 Ok, next!

 

As far as Silverage goes by far my favourite run is AMS #1-50. These stories bring the reader into them in a way that hasn't been acheived in the last 10 years at least! I dare anyone to name a modern series that compares.

 

Well, let's have you try to be a little more precise with regards to "bring the reader into them" because after all that's what anyone would say about any good comic and not only about ASM 1-50. Give us details and then we can collectively certainly find a modern that'd do you the same as AMS did.

[mica]

It is not a Silver-Age fan's duty to convince everyone else that the Silver-Age is better than Modern. I'm afraid that that is how some of the comments have been taken by the modern fans.

A Silver fan should not be embarrassed for liking Silver. It is also not the duty of Modern fans to convince the other AGE fans that the new stuff is the best.

This is, and should be a non-issue.

I make up a list of books from a year in the mid 60's and say to myself, I wouldn't mind owning everyone of those books. (This crosses Marvel and DC into Charlton, GoldKey, and Archie)

 

I can't say that about what is currently on the rack at my LCS. Sure I might like 2 titles for a 5 month run, but would not obviously appreciate them on the level as some of you Modern fans. I appreciate the recommendations from some of you.

None of us are wrong. And in a sense, all of us are right.

[Scrooge]

It is not a Silver-Age fan's duty to convince everyone else that the Silver-Age is better than Modern. I'm afraid that that is how some of the comments have been taken by the modern fans.

A Silver fan should not be embarrassed for liking Silver. It is also not the duty of Modern fans to convince the other AGE fans that the new stuff is the best.

This is, and should be a non-issue.

I make up a list of books from a year in the mid 60's and say to myself, I wouldn't mind owning everyone of those books. (This crosses Marvel and DC into Charlton, GoldKey, and Archie)

 

I can't say that about what is currently on the rack at my LCS. Sure I might like 2 titles for a 5 month run, but would not obviously appreciate them on the level as some of you Modern fans. I appreciate the recommendations from some of you.

None of us are wrong. And in a sense, all of us are right.

 

Mica,

 

not disagreeing with you here at all. I have no disrespect for Silverspider's opinion but I wish that 1) he was not so glib about his dismissal of moderns considering his apparent lack of knowledge about them and 2) his very thin capability to articulate his love of the Silver Age (which I am sure you could do). I don't consider myself an Age fan anyway but a comics fans as my shelves would prove to anyone replete with Foster, Raymond and Canniff reprints + DC GA reprints + Ducks reprints + 50s comics + Marvel Silver Essentials + moderns (DC, Marvel and all others) + some Japanese books + many europeans albums. I'd be hard pressed to claim I am this Age's fan. I am not in any way trying to "convert" silverspider ('cuz it seems an impossible task) but trying to persuade him that comics did take a turn for the better (not best) around 2001 and he should avail himself of this renewed strength in the medium. That's all.

[rob_react]

It is not a Silver-Age fan's duty to convince everyone else that the Silver-Age is better than Modern. I'm afraid that that is how some of the comments have been taken by the modern fans.

 

I don't think that's the case at all. Mostly we've been trying to draw out real reasons for the way that you guys feel the way that you do- either by understand what it is that folks like SOLELY about Silver Age books or, more importantly, finding out exactly what modern books people have actually read. To me, this "all X comics are bad argument" is strange since I read at least some books from every era (including the pre-pamphlet Platinum age days.) I think, to some degree the same can be said for the rest of the "modern fans" posting in this thread.

 

A Silver fan should not be embarrassed for liking Silver. It is also not the duty of Modern fans to convince the other AGE fans that the new stuff is the best.

This is, and should be a non-issue.

 

I don't think any modern fans are arguing that new comics are the "best."