Does anyone here still buy current books?

[mica]

I am looking forward to the new Alex Ross books that will come out I believe in October. So I am not close minded about things that are current.

All of my likes are based on what I enjoy.

 

Rob you keep mentioning DVD's and the comparison to entertainment=entertainment.

Hopefully you won't be bothered by me liking a James Cagney movie (big fan ) over WHITE CHICKS.(just picked that title at random.)

 

This is not to say I don't like current movies. I merely get tired of seeing the Superstar of the movie walk away from an explosion without turning back to see the explosion, cause he's COOOOOLLLLL.

Sure they spend more money on wardrobe, lighting,effects nowadays, but give me an actor back in the day that jumped or ran away from an explosion (as that would seem more real and something I would do)But instead we see our hero pretend to be a BADAS* walking away non-chalantly. It might have been cool the first time, but twenty times later, no.

So an old movie might seem more cartoony to the New Movie fan as movies are more hi-tech these days.

But likewise the old movie fan looks at the same modern trends and comes to the reverse impression, labeling most new stuff to look cartoony and fake.

 

Both sides having their opinions based on their likes and dislikes. Both sides thinking the other side is too cartoony. (just trying to further explain my earlier comments on SpiderMan appearing cartoony)

P.S. Scrooge, you would enjoy my library to some extent. I read Tracy 1931-through the sixties. Pogo, Terry&Pirates, CarlBarks Library, Clasics Illustrated, Dell, BigLittle Books, Patsy Walker, yadda yaddda

Of course your reading room is more comfortable.

[Scrooge]

Mica,

 

I don't disagree but at times it simply is annoying that an Age's fan will compare the BEST of his/her age (let's say ASM for illustration's sake) to some run-of-the-paper-mill example from the modern age (let's say a random late '90s Hulk one-shot to continue the example we've been working with) and that's simply and obviously not a debate worth having. What Rob and I are trying to achieve is to have silverspider not go down that road but at least see that ASM is good in its way and that Y the last man is equally in its own right (because Vaughan does draw you in the story (at least fully during the first 2 trades then the pace slackens)). Plus you can't blame Y for unrealistic hyper-muscular physiques. That goes too for comparing Cagney to the Weiland (sp?) brothers. Huhuh You note I am not trying to compare "insert good modern title" to SA schlock like Partridge Family or Lancelot Link (to name too off the top of my head).

 

Hey next time I am down in MO, I could check out your Tracys, BLBs, Patsys and all.

[rob_react]

Rob you keep mentioning DVD's and the comparison to entertainment=entertainment.

Hopefully you won't be bothered by me liking a James Cagney movie (big fan ) over WHITE CHICKS.(just picked that title at random.)

 

If, by that comparison you mean to say that all new movies are at the level of white chicks, then I WOULD be bothered by that comparison.

 

This is not to say I don't like current movies. I merely get tired of seeing the Superstar of the movie walk away from an explosion without turning back to see the explosion, cause he's COOOOOLLLLL.

Sure they spend more money on wardrobe, lighting,effects nowadays, but give me an actor back in the day that jumped or ran away from an explosion (as that would seem more real and something I would do)But instead we see our hero pretend to be a BADAS* walking away non-chalantly. It might have been cool the first time, but twenty times later, no.

 

This isn't really relevant to the discussion at hand. There are plenty of really good movies produced every year

 

So an old movie might seem more cartoony to the New Movie fan as movies are more hi-tech these days.

But likewise the old movie fan looks at the same modern trends and comes to the reverse impression, labeling most new stuff to look cartoony and fake.

 

Both sides having their opinions based on their likes and dislikes. Both sides thinking the other side is too cartoony. (just trying to further explain my earlier comments on SpiderMan appearing cartoony)

 

You seem to think that "cartoony" is something bad. Not when I use it it isn't (although it was in the hands of others in the thread.) It's just something I'm using to describe the sparse, pared down silver age Marvel style (a style I have a lot of respect for, by the way.)

 

Is that slipping through the cracks? The fact that I like Silver Age comics? I'm not on the other "side" I'm on the same "side" in that I like Silver Age comics (although I DON'T like the first 50 issues of Spider-Man all that much) I just like comics from before and after the silver age too.

 

I'm not sure if I've done it here, but I've argued FOR Silver Age comics with people who only like books from the Bronze/Copper/Modern/Whatever eras.

[mica]

Mica,

 

I don't disagree but at times it simply is annoying that an Age's fan will compare the BEST of his/her age (let's say ASM for illustration's sake) to some run-of-the-paper-mill example from the modern age (let's say a random late '90s Hulk one-shot to continue the example we've been working with) and that's simply and obviously not a debate worth having.

That's why I used the newstand analogy. I can't think of a title (well, maybe Porky Pig) that I wouldn't mind having from that era. I compared that to what is on the racks. I was wondering if you and Rob would be willing to admit that there's at least one lonely little title that is currently dreck. That's why the comparrison.

What Rob and I are trying to achieve is to have silverspider not go down that road but at least see that ASM is good in its way and that Y the last man is equally in its own right (because Vaughan does draw you in the story (at least fully during the first 2 trades then the pace slackens)).

OK, I understand that. And agree.

I entered this discussion to assist Julius as I think he probably felt a little double-teamed. HIm being new here I don't think he counted on having to answer the two of you and I remember what it was like my first week here, so I tried to help him feel that his views were important as well. In a Silver Age forum you might not expect to get any resistance when you say Silver Age rocks.

I didn't speak for him, but I feel I aided him.

Hey next time I am down in MO, I could check out your Tracys, BLBs, Patsys and all.

Anytime.

[rob_react]

That's why I used the newstand analogy. I can't think of a title (well, maybe Porky Pig) that I wouldn't mind having from that era. I compared that to what is on the racks. I was wondering if you and Rob would be willing to admit that there's at least one lonely little title that is currently dreck. That's why the comparrison.

 

I'll admit to MANY DOZENS of crappy books. I didn't know that that was an issue . One lonely little title? Did it appear that I was saying that ALL new books were good?

 

There was a reason I (and other people) have asked WHICH titles people had read (or, in many cases flipped through.) Just like every creative endeavor most new comics aren't very good. Which is why the small sampling that many people who "check out" new comics use to formulate their opinion of their quality is such a trap. If you picked up, randomly, an issue of Planetary, and issue of Fables and an issue of Sleeper, your idea of the quality of new books would be infinitely different than if you picked up three random bottom feeders.

[JuliusSeizure]

I entered this discussion to assist Julius as I think he probably felt a little double-teamed. HIm being new here I don't think he counted on having to answer the two of you and I remember what it was like my first week here, so I tried to help him feel that his views were important as well. In a Silver Age forum you might not expect to get any resistance when you say Silver Age rocks.

I didn't speak for him, but I feel I aided him.

I appreciate the assist anytime! Although, I can take a bruising now and then, and will always go to the mat for those gorgeous Silver Age treasures.

 

I am of the opinion that Silver and Bronze Age books were generally better done than comics of today, and I've explained some of my reasoning in earlier posts. That said, there are certainly exceptions on both sides. Everyone keeps talking about Y:The Last Man, for example, which is a book I've heard nothing but great things about. I may try one or two of the early trades.

[mica]

I'll admit to MANY DOZENS of crappy books. I didn't know that that was an issue . One lonely little title? Did it appear that I was saying that ALL new books were good?

I don't think any of us PRO-Silver (I use that term loosely to describe myself, Julius, and a few others) were getting that from the first few posts. Knowing that might have softened things greatly. It does make me feel better knowing that you think there are some Dreck issues being made today.

If you picked up, randomly, an issue of Planetary, and issue of Fables and an issue of Sleeper, your idea of the quality of new books would be infinitely different than if you picked up three random bottom feeders.

Agreed.

 

My opinon though has not changed. I wasn't alive in the mid-sixties but I feel very confident that with time travel I could grab 90% of titles off the rack and be very pleased with them. (then and now)

Compare that with today's rack, which you say yourself MANY DOZENS of crappy books are present. This is why I asked earlier for people to recommend particular titles to me. I won't ever totally close the door.

[DKB]

Compare that with today's rack, which you say yourself MANY DOZENS of crappy books are present. This is why I asked earlier for people to recommend particular titles to me. I won't ever totally close the door.

 

Go, buy, read, and report back so other Silver Age fans are encouraged to come out of the cold!

[Scrooge]

That's why I used the newstand analogy. I can't think of a title (well, maybe Porky Pig) that I wouldn't mind having from that era. I compared that to what is on the racks. I was wondering if you and Rob would be willing to admit that there's at least one lonely little title that is currently dreck. That's why the comparrison.

 

I'll admit to MANY DOZENS of crappy books. I didn't know that that was an issue . One lonely little title? Did it appear that I was saying that ALL new books were good?

 

There was a reason I (and other people) have asked WHICH titles people had read (or, in many cases flipped through.) Just like every creative endeavor most new comics aren't very good. Which is why the small sampling that many people who "check out" new comics use to formulate their opinion of their quality is such a trap. If you picked up, randomly, an issue of Planetary, and issue of Fables and an issue of Sleeper, your idea of the quality of new books would be infinitely different than if you picked up three random bottom feeders.

 

Yup, what Rob said. We are talking about a selection of good reads not the general level of books.

 

Let's go back for a second on your newsstand comment though Mica. Which time period of the SA are we talking about because I believe we can also find quite a few books that you wouldn't want to read from that era.

[mica]

OK....man I'm getting dragged further and further but here I go.

You'll have to forgive me but I am a very visual kind of person. Sort of similar to your Month in the Life, Scrooge I also dabble in trying to get a feel for what a newstand must have looked like. Using Nick Simon's old Marvel website I have expanded what he started and have slowly tried to include non-Marvel and make each image linkable....etc..

Here is a screen shot from my CD for December 1965. I chose that at random as it's right in the middle of the 60's.

Although it's not totally complete, but try to imagine also the occasional issue of Lone Ranger or Classics Illustrated, Harvey comics, and more.

My contention (based on opinion) is that I would love to have everyone of these issues. Others may not feel that way. My opinion. And a lovely image of December 1965 I might add.

[rob_react]

I wasn't alive in the mid-sixties but I feel very confident that with time travel I could grab 90% of titles off the rack and be very pleased with them. (then and now)

 

90%? Maybe you haven't actually seen as many 60s books as I have, but there was a LOT of garbage being published by even just DC and Marvel (ignoring any other publishers.) I would guess that the breakdown between the good and the [embarrasing lack of self control] is no different now than it was then. That's the way it seems to me at least, someone with a nostalgic heart and less critical eye might see things differently and might appreciate even the worst dogs the 60s had to offer simply because they represent an earlier time.

[mica]

Ok Rob

Take a look at that Newstand collage of mine. Is there a book there that you WOULDN'T WANT? Sure I'm missing a bunch of other titles that I haven't found the time to go gather for this discussion but I feel that it's very indicitive of what I am trying to get across.

[rob_react]

OK....man I'm getting dragged further and further but here I go.

You'll have to forgive me but I am a very visual kind of person. Sort of similar to your Month in the Life, Scrooge I also dabble in trying to get a feel for what a newstand must have looked like. Using Nick Simon's old Marvel website I have expanded what he started and have slowly tried to include non-Marvel and make each image linkable....etc..

Here is a screen shot from my CD for December 1965. I chose that at random as it's right in the middle of the 60's.

Although it's not totally complete, but try to imagine also the occasional issue of Lone Ranger or Classics Illustrated, Harvey comics, and more.

My contention (based on opinion) is that I would love to have everyone of these issues. Others may not feel that way. My opinion. And a lovely image of December 1965 I might add.

 

You're missing whole lines with that image, including the bulk of DCs (mostly not-so-good) output. Even with this top-of-the-heap slice of the newsstand, I think the 90% appraisal is a heck of a stretch as I see several books that I wouldn't read if someone paid me.

 

I count three good titles (FF, ASM and JIM- with the caveat that I personally don't really like Silver Age Spider-Man), the rest is in the okay to unreadable range.

[rob_react]

Ok Rob

Take a look at that Newstand collage of mine. Is there a book there that you WOULDN'T WANT?

 

As a collectible, I wouldn't want half of them unless they were in high grade. To read, I'd want two- The FF and the JIM, with the understanding that many people would appreciate the Spider-Man issue.

 

Sure I'm missing a bunch of other titles that I haven't found the time to go gather for this discussion but I feel that it's very indicitive of what I am trying to get across.

 

You've got to be missing dozens, if not hundreds of books. Most of those missing books are dogs.

[mica]

Then that's where you disagree. Fine. Super, No hard feelings. I personally like every title. And I'm not using a nostalgic viewpoint (as I wasn't alive) nor am I using a dollar amount resell viewpoint (as I don't sell probably never will).

The 90% comment gives me wiggle room as I'm sure someone will come up with some obscure title like "ELBOWMAN vs the PHLEGM"

[rob_react]

Then that's where you disagree. Fine. Super, No hard feelings. I personally like every title.

 

Wow.

 

We really will just have to end it there because we have radically different ideas of what a good comic is.

[DKB]

Yeah, he had me at "every title"

 

I will be a happy man for a month when I get a nice NM-ish Spidey 31.

[mica]

We really will just have to end it there because we have radically different ideas of what a good comic is.

Well I certainly hope I am in the right place for appreciating the Silver Age. Maybe I appreciate it more than you do. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Nor should anyone try to make me feel bad for liking this stuff.

[goldust40]

We really will just have to end it there because we have radically different ideas of what a good comic is.

Well I certainly hope I am in the right place for appreciating the Silver Age. Maybe I appreciate it more than you do. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Nor should anyone try to make me feel bad for liking this stuff.

 

There are of course varying ways to appreciate Silver Age books. Even though Rob is more or less correct that most of it was pretty mediocre (I'd've added the Avengers and Daredevil to the list of good books, though, along with some of Kubert's work) it does seem in your case that you enjoy the kitsch, dated elements of such comics (viz your Fashions of Asgard threads).

 

A lot of Silver Age has a certain naive charm that is worth the odd read if the mood takes you, but then there's Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, the Batbooks, drab Don Heck artwork, etc. that are cynically bad.

 

I would say that most of the books that came out between '68 and '74 (from both companies) are much, much better though. Both DC and Marvel definitely raised their game during this period - so I guess I'm more of a Bronze Age fan than Silver......

[mica]

naive charm, that's me. Don't limit me to Silver though. If you start to take inventory of what I collect you will see that I am very broadminded. However the broadmindedness is mainly before 1991 which is where I pull back.

I am eclectic.