How have label chasers affected the hobby

[topofthetotem]

I'm just interested in how the few that pay crazy prices for 9+ books have affected the masses on how you collect, buy and sell books? is it good, is it bad or not even a blip in the grand scheme of comic collecting? you two cent is welcome

[Batfiend-migration]

Crazy prices? To who? If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.

 

I am not sure that everyone is label chasing. You seem to indicate that HG collector's are less comic collector and more . That is very arrogant of you.

 

From my own standpoint I have to pay the price that the market demands. If that market is artificial and cannot be sustained then it will correct itself. As in all corrections some make money and some lose money.

 

I don't pay what I can't afford to lose. That is not to say that I am rich as I am not but if the market went to zero I would still have a roof over my head and could feed the family comfortably.

 

Now if my books retain their value well then woo hoo.

[SignatureSelect]

wanting the best isn't crazy. Niether is paying for what you want. In the long run the books that will retain value or increase in value are 8.5 and above. So everybody that wants to chase low to mid grade raw books go right ahead. As for me I want high grade unless it is a golden age piece that is hard to find even in mid grade.

[BassGMan]

wanting the best isn't crazy. Niether is paying for what you want. In the long run the books that will retain value or increase in value are 8.5 and above. So everybody that wants to chase low to mid grade raw books go right ahead. As for me I want high grade unless it is a golden age piece that is hard to find even in mid grade.

 

You may be right, but you may not be. 8.5 to 9.2 grades may be fine. My guess is that in 5-10 years from now you will have seen either fallen values on the 9.4 and above or at the least a slower increase in FMV than lower grade books. Only time will tell. I just don't think the multiples being paid for HG books are sustainable in the long run.

[AussieRuss]

wanting the best isn't crazy. Niether is paying for what you want. In the long run the books that will retain value or increase in value are 8.5 and above. So everybody that wants to chase low to mid grade raw books go right ahead. As for me I want high grade unless it is a golden age piece that is hard to find even in mid grade.

 

You may be right, but you may not be. 8.5 to 9.2 grades may be fine. My guess is that in 5-10 years from now you will have seen either fallen values on the 9.4 and above or at the least a slower increase in FMV than lower grade books. Only time will tell. I just don't think the multiples being paid for HG books are sustainable in the long run.

 

Hello BasGman.

 

I hear what you are saying but is that not what has been said generation after generation for share prices & property prices. In reality as people earn more each decade and property doubles roughly each decade why would comic prices not sustain in the long term?

 

I can understand that they may not perform in an aggresive manner in the short term but over the long term (next 50 years) you would have to think that that the trend will be positive.

 

 

 

Also as many other mid grade copies are slabbed they may become easier to procure. The higher graded items will most likely become part of someones keeper collection an become much harder to locate as they wont hit the open market as often.

 

Russ...

[tth2]

wanting the best isn't crazy. Niether is paying for what you want. In the long run the books that will retain value or increase in value are 8.5 and above. So everybody that wants to chase low to mid grade raw books go right ahead. As for me I want high grade unless it is a golden age piece that is hard to find even in mid grade.

 

You may be right, but you may not be. 8.5 to 9.2 grades may be fine. My guess is that in 5-10 years from now you will have seen either fallen values on the 9.4 and above or at the least a slower increase in FMV than lower grade books. Only time will tell. I just don't think the multiples being paid for HG books are sustainable in the long run.

Sid, you and other non-HG collectors are kidding yourselves. If the multiples on HGs collapse, and they very well could, don't you think that will ripple through mid- and low-grade books? In the 2 major SA slumps I've seen in my collecting life (early 80s and late 90s), mid- and low-grade prices suffered much more than HG prices, which is why the ratios in OS's HG and non-HG prices have widened over the years, even in the pre-CGC era. And according to FD, even then the mid- and low-grade prices in OS are still overstated

 

The reason for this phenomenon is simple: when HG prices move down, mid- and low-grade collectors upgrade, which puts disproportionately greater pressure on mid- and low-grade books, which are more plentiful. Theoretically, mid- and low-grade collectors should continue to focus on their niche and benefit from the lower prices, but in the real world it has never worked that way.

[drbanner]

No doubt...if 9.0+ prices drop by 30%, 8.5 and below prices will drop by 50%. I've been collecting pretty seriously since the early 90's, and in that time, other than GA and key SA/BA, low and mid grade prices have gone nowhere and continue to sell well below guide. Even slabbed, most 8.5 and below books don't sell for any premium over guide and many books don't even sell at guide if you take out the grading fees. The price spreads will continue to grow over time, even if the absolute value of the prices drop.

[BassGMan]

Don't pay any attention to me on this subject. I'm mainly just babbling. It may be somewhat of a conservative view but when there is talk of high grade books retaining their value or increasing in value the most over time (at least when talking slabbed 9.4 and above) I just find that today's values (1999/2000 tech stock values, in otherwords) are just not sustainable. Sure, I could be wrong. But as to why I personally am not a HG collector (at least with the HG BA books that I could afford) well, this is why. I don't want to pay 4X guide only to have a book with a value of 2X or 3X a couple years down the road. The bargains received on many mid-grade (for me that is 7.0 - 8.5) books at this time seem alot safer. But I realize that it is not all about safety. Some people just want to have the books without worrying about resell value, and that is certainly understandable. Besides, my "bargains" could become even bigger bargains down the road anyways.

[skybolt]

I tend to agree with BassGMan on this subject with respect to books that were inflated in price due to CGC's emergence. If we're talking about highly sought after GA and pre 1964 SA books in HG, then I agree with everyone else that these books will probably retain their value. However, if pre-CGC someone would've paid a maximum of $150 for a pristine copy of ASM#300 or #238, then why would someone all of a sudden think that copy is worth $2,700. Same scenario applies to many bronze age books like Hulk#181 and GSX-Men #1. Are these books really worth $15,000 in 9.8 condition, when a 9.2 book with one or two additional stress marks is selling for a $1,000?

 

If a pre-1964 book was selling for multiples of guide in extreme high grade condition pre CGC, then I don't see the prices falling for these books in the near future. As far as comparing 7.5 to 9.2 prices vs. 9.4 to 9.9 prices, well my guess is that if Hulk #181 in 9.8 condition drops from ($15K - I'm guessing here) to $7.5K in 5 years, I really don't think the 9.0 copy will drop from $1K to $500. It would just mean that people would realize that a 9.8 book is maybe twice or three better than a 9.2 book, but not 15 times better.

[topofthetotem]

Crazy prices? To who? If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.

 

I am not sure that everyone is label chasing. You seem to indicate that HG collector's are less comic collector and more . That is very arrogant of you.

 

From my own standpoint I have to pay the price that the market demands. If that market is artificial and cannot be sustained then it will correct itself. As in all corrections some make money and some lose money.

 

I don't pay what I can't afford to lose. That is not to say that I am rich as I am not but if the market went to zero I would still have a roof over my head and could feed the family comfortably.

 

Now if my books retain their value well then woo hoo.

 

 

Alright I must have hit a nerve

you are not getting the point it's not a debate about if people that label chase (want the best copy) are collectors or not collectors

it's how have the people that pay "CRAZY" multiple of guide have affected how YOU collect.

 

 

Crazy prices? To who? If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen. dont worry about my cash flow I'm doing just fine

[Red Hook]

They haven't affected me at all. I buy what I like, and if the price seems too high, I pass. End of story.

[topofthetotem]

the word "crazy" has been used by many forum members to describe many books from diffrent eras, like come on 1500.00 for nove #1, now would I like to sell that same issue of nove #1 for 1500.00 hell ya

 

For myself it has allowed me to find nice deals on cgc 8.0-9.2 books But I find alot of raw books that are priced alittle high and usually overgraded claimed to be nm so the seller can maximize the sale price

[BassGMan]

I tend to agree with BassGMan on this subject with respect to books that were inflated in price due to CGC's emergence. If we're talking about highly sought after GA and pre 1964 SA books in HG, then I agree with everyone else that these books will probably retain their value. However, if pre-CGC someone would've paid a maximum of $150 for a pristine copy of ASM#300 or #238, then why would someone all of a sudden think that copy is worth $2,700. Same scenario applies to many bronze age books like Hulk#181 and GSX-Men #1. Are these books really worth $15,000 in 9.8 condition, when a 9.2 book with one or two additional stress marks is selling for a $1,000?

 

If a pre-1964 book was selling for multiples of guide in extreme high grade condition pre CGC, then I don't see the prices falling for these books in the near future. As far as comparing 7.5 to 9.2 prices vs. 9.4 to 9.9 prices, well my guess is that if Hulk #181 in 9.8 condition drops from ($15K - I'm guessing here) to $7.5K in 5 years, I really don't think the 9.0 copy will drop from $1K to $500. It would just mean that people would realize that a 9.8 book is maybe twice or three better than a 9.2 book, but not 15 times better.

 

Geez Sky, you said it better than I ever could. And I agree with your Hulk #181 analogy. That's pretty much my whole point.

[BassGMan]

They haven't affected me at all. I buy what I like, and if the price seems too high, I pass. End of story.

 

And same here on this subject too.

[jokersrevenge]

I don't think that there are that many 9.6 and 9.8 silver age books out there. But I do think that the bronze high end will tank over time. I've been to a lot of comic stores in a lot of cities and watched ebay for quite a while, and that's where I'm getting my opinion from......I would love to hear from some more knowledgable people on this subject.

[topofthetotem]

They haven't affected me at all. I buy what I like, and if the price seems too high, I pass. End of story.

 

but have the people that pay big money for books affected the way you buy let take a mid silver book say it prices at 1000.00 OPG in NM 9.2 now a dealer/collector/investor finds a copy and it slabs at a 9.6-9.8 the dealer/collector/investor is not gonna sell that book for guide they are gonna want at the very least 5x guide and most of the time they will get it! but let say another dealer/collector/investor has the same issue nice looking issue but not a 9.6-9.8 raw copy they think because the 9.6-9.8 copy sold for 5000.00 this copy should be worth atlease 3x guide and so on down the grading line too a certain extent. Now do you think that some of those books you pass on are priced too high because the top end prices are so many multiple of guide and the sellers see the high prices and want their cut too??

[heinlein99]

I can't speak for the other people here, but I'm on a rather limited budget, and any increase in the prices of BA & SA books affects me pretty profoundly. If I could afford it, I'd own Amazing Spider-Man 1-200 in 8.5 or better...but I can't. Of course, prices on the more expensive issues were high before CGC ever came along, but the slabbing of books seems to have pushed everything up.

 

Look at BA horror and romance titles, for example. Just 2 or 3 years ago these could be bought in lots very cheaply, even with higher-grade copies included. Now, it's nearly impossible to find a bargain on this sort of thing.

 

So, yeah, I would say CGC has affected my collecting, because it has made buying Bronze Age (i.e., pre-1976) issues in decent grade much more expensive.

 

 

But I have a question too. As prices continue to rise on various issues in high grade (as I think they inevitably will), will mid-grade prices rise also, since buyers will be forced to make do with a lower grade that they can afford?

[BassGMan]

 

 

But I have a question too. As prices continue to rise on various issues in high grade (as I think they inevitably will), will mid-grade prices rise also, since buyers will be forced to make do with a lower grade that they can afford?

 

Just like you, I can speculate, but really only speak for myself. I'm one of those guys buying the BA horror these days. I'd love NM copies of House Of Mystery #174 and House Of Secrets #81 but I am not going to pay current NM prices for those books. So I have to buy the VF versions of these books, like many others. And yes, those nice mid grades are a heck of alot more expensive than they used to be. However, horror is on a big uptick these days. The question is, have raw SA and BA Batman, ASM and Uncanny in mid-grade risen much over the last few years along with those HG slabs?

[JuliusSeizure]

They haven't really affected me either, I happily buy mid-grade issues at fractions of guide, with no immediate plans to resell. As a bottom-feeding fish, I'm not really playing on the same field as the label-chasers. There may be an indirect trickle-down effect raising the prices I have to pay a little, but for the most part we're in two different worlds.

[nik]

Have some knowledge about grading and good eyes.

 

Buy Raw.

 

Be Patient.

 

Buy more Raw books.

 

You would be surprised how many Raw books in HG you can buy for guide or just under if you spend more $$.

 

Slab, sell what you dont care about and repeat, and before you know it you will amass a pretty nice personal HG collection.