How have label chasers affected the hobby

[tth2]

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

 

Die.

 

By the way, did it ever occurr to you that your precious original art's value is tied inextricably to comic values? If comics bottom out, so does art. How many people spending 50k on OA aren't interested in comics? Lose one audience, lose the other.

That`s what cracks me up about Hairshirt`s arguments. He completely fails to see that if comics weren`t worth anything, then original comic art would be nothing but commercial art, and not particularly stellar commercial art at that. He should go check out how much most non-comic related original commercial art from the 1930s-1960s is worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic original art is totally inflated because of the value of the comic books.

[Norrin_Radd]

By the way, did it ever occur to you that your precious original art's value is tied inextricably to comic values? If comics bottom out, so does art. How many people spending 50k on OA aren't interested in comics? Lose one audience, lose the other.

That`s what cracks me up about Hairshirt`s arguments. He completely fails to see that if comics weren`t worth anything, then original comic art would be nothing but commercial art, and not particularly stellar commercial art at that. He should go check out how much most non-comic related original commercial art from the 1930s-1960s is worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic original art is totally inflated because of the value of the comic books.

 

Exactly.

[october]

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

 

Die.

 

By the way, did it ever occurr to you that your precious original art's value is tied inextricably to comic values? If comics bottom out, so does art. How many people spending 50k on OA aren't interested in comics? Lose one audience, lose the other.

That`s what cracks me up about Hairshirt`s arguments. He completely fails to see that if comics weren`t worth anything, then original comic art would be nothing but commercial art, and not particularly stellar commercial art at that. He should go check out how much most non-comic related original commercial art from the 1930s-1960s is worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic original art is totally inflated because of the value of the comic books.

 

I don't know why we even bother, Tim. Whoever this guy is, he is dumber than a fence post. In the other thread he claims to have 10 MILLION in OA. Of course he never bothers to prove it.

[Larryw7]

 

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

 

Die.

 

Me ?,...Im just trying to bring comic book collectors to "THE NEXT LEVEL" ?

 

Why the animosity ?

 

Yes,..change is difficult. BUT,..ironically,..it is YOU who must adapt...

 

OR DIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

I don't collect high grade, so even if the market did tank, I wouldn't give a shiite. In fact, I would like it. A market drop would enable me to buy a bunch of books I would not have been able to afford otherwise. I DON'T INVEST, I COLLECT. Not everything boils down to a market analysis. Some of us actually do collect because WE ENJOY COMICS.

 

 

By the way, did it ever occurr to you that your precious original art's value is tied inextricably to comic values? If comics bottom out, so does art. How many people spending 50k on OA aren't interested in comics? Lose one audience, lose the other.

 

[tth2]

I don't know why we even bother, Tim. Whoever this guy is, he is dumber than a fence post. In the other thread he claims to have 10 MILLION in OA. Of course he never bothers to prove it.

Of course he`s full of BS and exists here simply to be a provocateur. I usually avoid responding to posters like him at all because they thrive on the attention. But for some reason, I`ve decided to let KK be my daily irritant, as penance for whatever sins I might have committed. Hence the reason I call him my hairshirt.

[october]

I don't know why we even bother, Tim. Whoever this guy is, he is dumber than a fence post. In the other thread he claims to have 10 MILLION in OA. Of course he never bothers to prove it.

Of course he`s full of BS and exists here simply to be a provocateur. I usually avoid responding to posters like him at all because they thrive on the attention. But for some reason, I`ve decided to let KK be my daily irritant, as penance for whatever sins I might have committed. Hence the reason I call him my hairshirt.

 

Nothing like a little medieval self-mortification to get the blood flowing. As you can see, I let him (and JC) annoy me as well. It can sometimes be a good thing to bang your virtual head against a virtual wall.

[krazykat-migration]

Penance ? PUHHLLEEZE...

 

You guys are just JEALOUS.

[Norrin_Radd]

Penance ? PUHHLLEEZE...

 

You guys are just JEALOUS.

 

What have you shown us that we would be jealous about?

[Red Hook]

Brad, to be fair to Steve F, the following BSDs have publicly stated that they don`t have a problem with pressing: Borock and Schmell on these boards, and apparently at Mark Zaid`s panel in SD, Rich Evans.

 

Now, you raise a very valid point which is whether any of these guys would put their money where their mouth is. Doug has publicly stated he would shell out well over $100K for a 9.4 Hulk 1, and we know a 9.4 FF 3 is probably #2 on his priority list. So, would he still pay well over $100K for a 9.4 Hulk 1 if the seller were to tell him that it`s one of the current 9.2 or 9.0 copies, but pressed and resubbed up to a 9.4? Or would he pay a new, record shattering price for the FF 3 (which we know he would for a "natural" 9.4 copy) in a similar situation?

 

I don`t mean to pick on Doug, because I respect the fact that he`s been open about this issue. Unfortunately he`s also one of the few BSDs who I can use as an example because he HAS been public about it.

 

The thing I really don`t like about Steve F`s argument is that because a small circle of big collectors decided that pressing wasn`t a big deal, that it therefore shouldn`t be a big deal to the rest of us either. As you rightly point out, if it were something that us rank and file collectors could have had a choice on, at least we would`ve had a chance to vote with our feet. And who knows, perhaps the reaction of the majority of collectors would`ve been a big yawn. Certainly there are sophisticated collectors on these boards who`ve taken that position, so this is not unlikely. But we never even got a chance to make an informed decision, because the powers that be made the decision for us and, even more paternistically, never let us know that the decision had even been made or that there was even an issue.

 

There was certainly a cabal of collectors/dealers who tried to do the same thing with "traditional" restoration, and foist it upon the market as an acceptable thing. I guess the difference there was that such methods of restoration COULD be detected and there were sufficient voices of well known collectors/dealers such as Keith Contarino who forced the issue to be kept in the open until the tide turned. As I wrote the last sentence, I`ve suddenly realized that perhaps the biggest problem that we anti-pressers have is that there is no big name who has been willing to consistently and publicly take on the pressing crowd in the same way. Sure, there`s Marnin, but because of his anti-CGC baggage he`s too easy for the pro-pressers to discredit and he`s therefore marginalized himself in this debate. I suspect there are a few BSD dealers out there who are anti-pressing, but for one reason or another they have been unwilling to publicly take a stand and rally the troops around them.

 

Tim, I think using Steve B. and my buddy Doug are not good examples because they are both vested in the marketing of such books. I also respect Doug for his outspokeness. I wish more dealers would get on the beam like that. I don't know that other guys you mentioned well enought to comment. If they fall into the category of pure collectors (and I know Blazing Bob would deny such a category exists), I would find it hard to believe that these guys would blindly buy pressing suspects without demanding a significant discount. I'd just like to hear more of these collectors come out and talk about their position. They also want to protect the huge investment they've already made, so I think in public they will either be silent or really softpeddle the issue. It would be understandable.

[sfilosa]

Tim, I think using Steve B. and my buddy Doug are not good examples because they are both vested in the marketing of such books. I also respect Doug for his outspokeness. I wish more dealers would get on the beam like that. I don't know that other guys you mentioned well enought to comment. If they fall into the category of pure collectors (and I know Blazing Bob would deny such a category exists), I would find it hard to believe that these guys would blindly buy pressing suspects without demanding a significant discount. I'd just like to hear more of these collectors come out and talk about their position. They also want to protect the huge investment they've already made, so I think in public they will either be silent or really softpeddle the issue. It would be understandable.

 

Brad:

 

You made my agrument for me. Simply put, the big time collector and dealers have pressed books in their collections / inventory, therefore they are not going to punish themselves, by denouncing pressing.

[skybolt]

It will affect Supply and demand Curves that is a FACT.

 

IMHO,..you'd have to be CRZAZY to spend 90K on a comic book when more can simply be pressed into existence. Better off buying Original Art.

 

If an ASM # 1 is worth 90 K in its highest grade. And MORE can be pressed into existence,..

 

is not,...

 

http://www.heritagecomics.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=817&Lot_No=6442

 

Worth 90K ?

 

Which is the better Amazing Spiderman COLLECTABLE ??????

 

DESTRO................uh, I mean Krazykat.

 

I completely echo October_Fire's opinion. We both collect comics because of the enjoyment of the hobby, and not because we want to make a huge profit. If I lose 10% of what I invested in comic books over a 10-year span, I'd still be happy. At least I would've owned an ASM #1, X-Men #1, etc. during this time span.

 

Even if I sold my entire collection or won the lotto tomorrow, I still wouldn't purchase original art because it's too one dimensional for me. I hate looking at the original black and white covers with white out all over the place. If I wanted to spend 10K on original art, I'd rather purchase something from a well known artist and hang it my living room. I don't have anything personal against people who collect orginal art, but for most people it's not the natural progression grom comic books.

 

If you really want to promote original art, then you shouldn't be in everyone's face trying to sell your art. Your method only turns people off to the idea.

[joe_collector]

Joe_collector,

 

Huh ? I agree with you. I was trying to say that they are in denial.

 

I thought that might be it, but I saw you replied to my post so it was a bit confusing. I am just so tired of the CGC apologists trying to sweep this problem under the carpet, that I shot first and asked questions later.

[joe_collector]

He should go check out how much most non-comic related original commercial art from the 1930s-1960s is worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic original art is totally inflated because of the value of the comic books.

 

Great comment, and very true.

[joe_collector]

They also want to protect the huge investment they've already made, so I think in public they will either be silent or really softpeddle the issue. It would be understandable.

 

Anyone with any financial holdings in high-grade books would certainly find it tough to come out against pressing, without also risking those same holdings to potential ruin.

[joe_collector]

Even if I sold my entire collection or won the lotto tomorrow, I still wouldn't purchase original art because it's too one dimensional for me.

 

I'd never buy OA either, because I collect comics due to their nostalgic value, and not as "pieces of art" to hang on the wall. For me, comics represent a special "time and place", when I was a little guy rifling through the spinner rack.

 

I open a Bronze Marvel comic and I always get a kick out of it, right down to the ads, letters and bullpen bulletins. I look at OA and it really does nothing for me.

[uclapeterg]

Even if I sold my entire collection or won the lotto tomorrow, I still wouldn't purchase original art because it's too one dimensional for me.

 

I'd never buy OA either, because I collect comics due to their nostalgic value, and not as "pieces of art" to hang on the wall. For me, comics represent a special "time and place", when I was a little guy rifling through the spinner rack.

 

I open a Bronze Marvel comic and I always get a kick out of it, right down to the ads, letters and bullpen bulletins. I look at OA and it really does nothing for me.

 

[krazykat-migration]

He should go check out how much most non-comic related original commercial art from the 1930s-1960s is worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic original art is totally inflated because of the value of the comic books.

 

Great comment, and very true.

 

That comment is so stupid...not great at all ?!!?!?

 

Its like me saying to you,....you should check out what 1960's LIFE MAGAZINE'S are worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic books are totally inflated.

 

In case you havent noticed,...its THE GENRE !

[tth2]

He should go check out how much most non-comic related original commercial art from the 1930s-1960s is worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic original art is totally inflated because of the value of the comic books.

 

Great comment, and very true.

 

That comment is so stupid...not great at all ?!!?!?

 

Its like me saying to you,....you should check out what 1960's LIFE MAGAZINE'S is worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic books are totally inflated.

 

In case you havent noticed,...its THE GENRE !

Ah, the sharp pain right through the eyeball and into the deepest recesses of my mind that I experience everytime I read your posts... So cleansing, so purifying!

[tth2]

Tim, I think using Steve B. and my buddy Doug are not good examples because they are both vested in the marketing of such books.

I meant Steve B before CGC. Clearly a lot of CGC`s grading philosophies reflect philosophies held by Borock before CGC. In some cases, such as downgrading for non-color breaking creases, this has been good in my opinion, and in other cases, such as pressing, this has not been so good.

[krazykat-migration]

He should go check out how much most non-comic related original commercial art from the 1930s-1960s is worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic original art is totally inflated because of the value of the comic books.

 

Great comment, and very true.

 

That comment is so stupid...not great at all ?!!?!?

 

Its like me saying to you,....you should check out what 1960's LIFE MAGAZINE'S is worth and then get a clue about how the value of comic books are totally inflated.

 

In case you havent noticed,...its THE GENRE !

Ah, the sharp pain right through the eyeball and into the deepest recesses of my mind that I experience everytime I read your posts... So cleansing, so purifying!

 

I aims to pleeze