HOLY [embarrasing lack of self control]..ADVENTURE COMICS 72 CGC 9.8 ALREADY @ $37500

[drdonaldblake]

anyone noticed this amazing book in the heritage auction....it is INCREDIBLE....when u see one of these awesome mile high books u get blown away..............just imagine what chuck R felt when he was pouring over the entire runs!!

 

its already @ 437k

 

talk about a classic cover

 

WOW!

[Bonds25]

I've seen better.

[rjpb]

That's really only a little more than twice the 9.2 guide price - so one would expect it to go higher.

[drdonaldblake]

yea, i def think it'll go higher

 

i wonder whose after the book ? steve geppi??

[sterlingcomics]

yea, i def think it'll go higher

 

i wonder whose after the book ? steve geppi??

 

no---everyone on this board has $50k or so extra spare change to bid...

[DawgPhan]

I know the good doctor doesnt do links, but could someone else?

[verygoodplus]

Adventure 72 (Church Copy)

[casey1870]

Nice book....sorta.Not a 9.8, piece of that corner is off in the slab I'll give a grand for it...

[rjpb]

It is a great Starman cover- but I always felt this book was overvalued as a key - Sandman and Sandy get there new costumes in the previous issue, and S&K don't start the Sandman covers until #74. I have to think most collectors would much rather have a #73 in any given grade, yet the values in the guide are pretty close. But what do I know, I'm not really in the market for GA DC keys.

[lou_fine]

It is a great Starman cover- but I always felt this book was overvalued as a key - Sandman and Sandy get there new costumes in the previous issue, and S&K don't start the Sandman covers until #74. I have to think most collectors would much rather have a #73 in any given grade, yet the values in the guide are pretty close. But what do I know, I'm not really in the market for GA DC keys.

 

In full agreement with you here.

 

I also feel that Adventure #72 is an overvlaued book in comparison to Adventure #73, which has a much more classic cover and very rarely shows up in the marketplace, especially in grade.

 

On the other hand, just over 2X guide for a 9.8 book is not really that high of a price to be paying for a semi-key GA DC book. Especially when you consider that a Hulk #181 in the same 9.8 grade would probably be pushing $20K based upon past prices, which is nothing more than totally .

[esquirecomics]

I could see this book going upwards to $72k, except with so many key books in the auction, especially from the Church collection, I would not be surprised if it sells for around $50k-$60k.

[drdonaldblake]

i ownder who is selling it

[esquirecomics]

i ownder who is selling it

 

I would guess Parino since I believe he owns most of these DC Mile High copies.

 

BTW, this book used to be a 9.6 (unless someone tells me that two copies exist). It was bought from Heritage in the March 2003 auction for $34,500.

Adventure #72 MH 9.6

 

This really bugs me.

 

I don't care whether this book has been pressed or is a simple resubmit, but CGC should NOT allow previously graded books to be submitted for new grades on a different day. IMHO, this denigrates their credibility, which will only hurt the market and its business as time goes by. There is no legitimate excuse for a MH book, which is clearly tracked, to receive two different grades. CGC should stand by its initial grade.

 

If I were in charge, any book that had previously been graded and was found to have been resubmitted would receive the identical grade as before. Wouldn't matter if the book had been pressed and was actually in "better" condition, or was just a simple resubmit spin of the gun chamber. If CGC doesn't want to consider pressing restoration, that's fine. If CGC doesn't want to list "pressed" on a blue label so as not to create a stigma, that's fine.

 

One solution to at least an aspect of the pressing problem is not to reward the pressers.

[krazykat-migration]

i ownder who is selling it

 

I would guess Parino since I believe he owns most of these DC Mile High copies.

 

BTW, this book used to be a 9.6 (unless someone tells me that two copies exist). It was bought from Heritage in the March 2003 auction for $34,500.

Adventure #72 MH 9.6

 

This really bugs me.

 

I don't care whether this book has been pressed or is a simple resubmit, but CGC should NOT allow previously graded books to be submitted for new grades on a different day. IMHO, this denigrates their credibility, which will only hurt the market and its business as time goes by. There is no legitimate excuse for a MH book, which is clearly tracked, to receive two different grades. CGC should stand by its initial grade.

 

If I were in charge, any book that had previously been graded and was found to have been resubmitted would receive the identical grade as before. Wouldn't matter if the book had been pressed and was actually in "better" condition, or was just a simple resubmit spin of the gun chamber. If CGC doesn't want to consider pressing restoration, that's fine. If CGC doesn't want to list "pressed" on a blue label so as not to create a stigma, that's fine.

 

One solution to at least an aspect of the pressing problem is not to reward the pressers.

 

 

I have to agree with you Mark..this undermies the hobby BIG TIME. A market is flawed when 'value' can be created with a hot iron and some water. It is just wrong and will turn people off to this hobby in the long run. No doubt about it.

 

 

[esquirecomics]

CGC even removed the 9.6 from its census and replaced it with the 9.8 so there is no question it is the same book. Why? Why? Dear G-d, Why?

 

Do they not see how this harms their reputation and credibility? Is it just me and Krazykat who believe this?

[krazykat-migration]

 

 

 

 

Alot of people are in denial either because (1) they have too much money in the hobby or (2) their love of the genre has blinded their sense of fair play.

 

The only other rationale explanation is (3) that they are an 'inside player' and thus this type of behaviour benefits them vis-a-vis 'connections with CGC.

 

No other market that I am aware of would allow these types of shennanigans.

[drdonaldblake]

its doubtful there are 2 church copies

[rjpb]

i ownder who is selling it

 

I would guess Parino since I believe he owns most of these DC Mile High copies.

 

BTW, this book used to be a 9.6 (unless someone tells me that two copies exist). It was bought from Heritage in the March 2003 auction for $34,500.

Adventure #72 MH 9.6

 

This really bugs me.

 

I don't care whether this book has been pressed or is a simple resubmit, but CGC should NOT allow previously graded books to be submitted for new grades on a different day. IMHO, this denigrates their credibility, which will only hurt the market and its business as time goes by. There is no legitimate excuse for a MH book, which is clearly tracked, to receive two different grades. CGC should stand by its initial grade.

 

If I were in charge, any book that had previously been graded and was found to have been resubmitted would receive the identical grade as before. Wouldn't matter if the book had been pressed and was actually in "better" condition, or was just a simple resubmit spin of the gun chamber. If CGC doesn't want to consider pressing restoration, that's fine. If CGC doesn't want to list "pressed" on a blue label so as not to create a stigma, that's fine.

 

One solution to at least an aspect of the pressing problem is not to reward the pressers.

 

 

Mark - while there is some validity to your concerns - is there any evidence that this particular book was pressed - it is generally agreed that any grade given to a comic by CGC or anyone else is not absolute. Perhaps the owner felt that it had a good chance of grading higher on a resubmission - why should major Church books be treated any differently than any other book that is resubmitted in hopes of a higher grade. The subjectivity of grading pertains not only to who is doing the grading, but even when the book is graded. Would you ask that CGC stand by a grade on a resubmit if the book appeared to have suffered slight damage post-encapsulation?

 

In this particular case, grades of 9.6 and above are so rare with key GA books, even Church copies, that I'm not sure that the potential pool of buyers is going to so much more impressed with a 9.8 that they will be willing to pay an additional premium above that which they would pay for a 9.6 - It's not like Silver and Bronze age books, where one has to worry that a nicer copy may come along.

 

As for pressing, there is some irony in that it is the ability to scrutinize scans of the same book showing a suspicious upgrade from CGC that has led to the increased awarness of pressing among collectors, and their ability to track which books may have been pressed. Had these books remained raw and grades shifted due to a change in who was doing the grading, there would probably be less investigation into why the grades had changed.

[Silver Surfer]

I think if nothing else it illustrates the inconsistencey of CGC's grading standards over only a few years. From the get go I always felt that old label high grade books were graded much tighter than the stuff I have seen over the past year obtaining 9.4's. Perhaps this is another reason why they refuse to print their grading standards? Imagine that you pay a company to grade your comics yet you really have no idea what the outcome will be because they refuse to put it in writing. If Overstreet can put it in writing why the hell can't CGC?

[esquirecomics]

Mark - while there is some validity to your concerns - is there any evidence that this particular book was pressed - it is generally agreed that any grade given to a comic by CGC or anyone else is not absolute. Perhaps the owner felt that it had a good chance of grading higher on a resubmission - why should major Church books be treated any differently than any other book that is resubmitted in hopes of a higher grade. The subjectivity of grading pertains not only to who is doing the grading, but even when the book is graded.

 

I did have one collector/dealer e-mail me citing evidence that led him to believe the book had been pressed, but I have no idea if it has, and I haven't claimed that it has. It could easily be a resubmit. Whether it has or has not been pressed is actually irrelevant to the primary concern I have, and that involves the credibility and consistency of CGC.

 

I am not faulting owners for disagreeing with CGC grades. We all have done so at one point or another because grading is subjective and there is very little we can do about that. But while I have little problem or concern with your grading or my grading being subjectively different from that of CGC, I do not want CGC's grading anything other than completely consistent and objective internally. It matters not that there are individuals working within CGC who hold their own opinions. CGC as an entity, in order to maintain its credibility, must issues grades as an entity and do so without deviation as much as possible.

 

I am not separating Church books from any other. I want all books treated the same. However, we also have to recognize that, in this day and age, there is little chance CGC or anyone will ever be able to determine whether a ASM #14 that will be graded a CGC 9.6 was actually one of the CGC 9.4s that had been previously graded but freed from its slab with no evidence of its prior encapsulation.

 

But CGC can tell if the Adventure #72 Mile High copy that is to be graded a CGC 9.8 was the SAME CGC 9.6 copy two years earlier. Pedigrees are simply trackable beyond question, which is why I single them out as examples. Remember, keep in mind that whomever submitted the Adventure #72 presumably did so with the disclosure that it was the Mile High copy. They probably even submitted it with the old label. Either that was true, or CGC was able to tell from the book itself that it was the Mile High copy because they deleted the 9.6 copy from their census and replaced it with the current 9.8.

 

Would you ask that CGC stand by a grade on a resubmit if the book appeared to have suffered slight damage post-encapsulation?

 

No, of course not. But this is totally different. In your example the book has been damaged and the grade has suffered. In that case CGC should properly downgrade the book to reflect the new grade, and the grader's notes should reflect the reasoning for the downgrade. Of course, it strains me to believe someone would resubmit this for a grade. I suppose that if the book were submitted to be re-encapulated because the holder broke and it was noticed that the book had suffered significant damage then CGC might re-grade it as well, but on that note I am not sure.

 

I am addressing situations where nothing has changed with the book, or where the book has been pressed to artifically manipulate the grade. Either way, CGC should never knowingly increase a grade on the same book unless it notes why on the label or in the grader's notes, but it does not want to do that for fear of stigmatizing the book.

 

Thus, the solution is to never increase a grade when you know it is the same book.

 

IMHO