An email to me....from Doug Sulipa

[HouseofComics.Com]

Donut's right, but even a lot of "pros" out there don't realize what he 's saying. I was actually making money by buying books like the ones he's talking about by buying them on ebay for about $10, then selling them to my LCS for the "low low" price of half guide which would be like $18. I did a couple of large transactions and sold a couple of shortboxes this way until they caught wise and started buying off ebay themselves. Ah well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

I'm shocked your LCS would pay half guide for something that doesn't sell very well indeed. Ie, unless they are complete insufficiently_thoughtful_persons, by buying for that they must be able to turn them easily at double that. Which I think disproves the point that ebay is the only market that matters.

 

Marc

[shrunkenhead]

 

unless they are complete insufficiently_thoughtful_persons

 

[shrunkenhead]

I was in there recently, and just about all the books I'd sold them were still on the wall, many of which I sold to them over a year ago. Covers were fading by the day, too.

[JuliusSeizure]

Donut's right, but even a lot of "pros" out there don't realize what he 's saying. I was actually making money by buying books like the ones he's talking about by buying them on ebay for about $10, then selling them to my LCS for the "low low" price of half guide which would be like $18. I did a couple of large transactions and sold a couple of shortboxes this way until they caught wise and started buying off ebay themselves. Ah well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

I'm shocked your LCS would pay half guide for something that doesn't sell very well indeed. Ie, unless they are complete insufficiently_thoughtful_persons, by buying for that they must be able to turn them easily at double that. Which I think disproves the point that ebay is the only market that matters.

 

Marc

Hey Marc,

 

Most LCSes by me have unrealistic expectations of what their inventory will sell for, though, which is why you see the same $20+ books there for years. Occasionally, a collector will wander in who is looking for THAT issue, his eyes will bug out, and he'll be so excited to see it that he'll pony up (yes, I've been that collector once or twice ), but for the most part the stuff does not move, unless the owner does a deal, sells on eBay himself, or blows a bunch of it out at once in the annual 50% off sale.

 

I stopped at a place in New Hampshire a year or two ago and saw a run of X-Mens in the 160s stickered at $15 apiece! Now, maybe they were all super HG -- but I doubt it. They had maybe one tattered SA book hanging from the ceiling, and to them, early '80s (and X-Men yet!) was vintage stuff. The LCSes I frequent aren't quite that bad, and the one nearest me actually "gets it" and usually prices their stuff to move. Which it does. They're often getting new BA stuff in, and I've learned that if I see something I like I'd better grab it, 'cause odds are it won't be there next week. They don't have a lot of inventory, but they turn it better than most. Mid-grade 100-pager Batmans and Detectives for $4-$6. Can't beat that.

[HouseofComics.Com]

I was in there recently, and just about all the books I'd sold them were still on the wall, many of which I sold to them over a year ago. Covers were fading by the day, too.

 

insufficiently_thoughtful_persons!

[the blob]

"I'm shocked your LCS would pay half guide for something that doesn't sell very well"

 

maybe they spent $18 on a comic that guided at $36 and then tried to charge $72? Pretty easy if they buy it as a "fine" and sell it as a "very fine" (well, not so easy to sell them, but easy to put a price tag on)

 

20-30% off OPG seems to be a pretty standard starting point for non-NM silver age among comic shops in my neck of the woods and then there's the occasional half off sale.

[heinlein99]

while eBay may not be the "only market"

 

For those of us out in the boonies, it's just about the only market. There are only a few rinky-dink comic shops within an hour and a half of me, and they price their back issues rather high (when they have them). And for small-potatoes guys like me, ComicLink and the other auction houses are out of our price categories for the most part.

 

And I too disagree with your pricing on older Amazing Spider-Mans. I'm always looking at older issues and, even in somewhat-ratty shape, they always tend to bring $20 or more. If anybody here has an issue of ASM #25 - or for that matter any issue under #51 - in Good or better, I'd gladly pay $15 (shipping included!).

[shrunkenhead]

I was in there recently, and just about all the books I'd sold them were still on the wall, many of which I sold to them over a year ago. Covers were fading by the day, too.

 

insufficiently_thoughtful_persons!

 

The weirdest part about it all is the owner never remembers who I am. Every time I go in there, he's like "hey, do I know you, you've been here before, right?" I just kinda shrug and say "yeah." I dunno, maybe one of these days I'll say "yeah, I'm the guy who unloaded all those now faded and unsold books you're standing in front of!" But he seems a little nutty, I'm afraid he'll pull out a shotgun from behind the counter or something. Better be wearing my running shoes on the day I finally feel brave.

[HouseofComics.Com]

Suffice to say that his statement about pricing is ostrich in the sand thinking. Overstreet pricing, for the vast majority of books published, is completely out of touch with reality. Prices for books, with very few exceptions, should be roughly the same for all grades under F/VF. Demand is simply not there for mid-grade books.

 

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, but how do we reconcile the above statement (if we can) with the fact that MH and LS are pricing most pre-1975 issues at 1.5x guide or 2.0x guide? Are they ostriches? Or do the rules not apply to them? Or some combination of these?

 

Btw, those prices sometimes extend to Byrne X-Men as well.

 

Marc

[shrunkenhead]

I don't think Milehigh should be used as a barometer. Their pricing is consistently ludicrous, and while I have no data on the subject, I would venture to suggest that their sales sag as a result. Why else would I be getting emails about codeword specials several times in the same month?

[Larryw7]

I don't think Milehigh should be used as a barometer. Their pricing is consistently ludicrous

 

So are the items they list on eBay. Last week they listed a Comic Book Marketplace #23 for a reasonable price, and since it's one I don't have, I snagged it via Buy It Now. Then I preceded to get about ten emails from Mile High saying "Sorry, that item is out of stock". If it's out of stock, why the [embarrassing lack of self control] list it on eBay?

[Aces]

enh, I see what you're saying, but I think it's an interesting observation anyway. If you read some of these threads about the markets and pricing, I'm not so sure most everyone here is even accurate. But whatever. I'm still surprised more people didn't at least talk about it.

 

I had crafted a long rant about this last night, but it got eaten when my machine hiccuped. Suffice to say that his statement about pricing is ostrich in the sand thinking. Overstreet pricing, for the vast majority of books published, is completely out of touch with reality. Prices for books, with very few exceptions, should be roughly the same for all grades under F/VF. Demand is simply not there for mid-grade books.

 

Just a quick example - I'll sell you every single copy I can find of Amazing Spider-Man 28 in fine for $189. That's Guide. Market price for this book is about $35. in that grade.

 

What he doesn't grasp, and the majority of dealers don't grasp is that while eBay may not be the "only market" (I hear that canard all the time), it is the only one that matters for books in low- mid- and mid-to-high grades. If you want to buy mid-grade, attractive looking copies of essentially any book, you can find it online if you look long enough for a significant discount to "Guide."

 

Overstreet pricing on low- and mid-grade books is at least 50% too high, across the board, and in many cases much higher. I don't have a Guide in front of me to pull numbers, but take Amazing Spider-Man 25, which is a "major-minor" key (first Mary Jane). Overstreet "Good" is $36. The marketplace price is about $10.

 

Do you have an ASM 28 in Fine for $35?

 

And a 27 and 22 and 21 too?

[HouseofComics.Com]

Most LCSes by me have unrealistic expectations of what their inventory will sell for, though, which is why you see the same $20+ books there for years. Occasionally, a collector will wander in who is looking for THAT issue, his eyes will bug out, and he'll be so excited to see it that he'll pony up (yes, I've been that collector once or twice ), but for the most part the stuff does not move, unless the owner does a deal, sells on eBay himself, or blows a bunch of it out at once in the annual 50% off sale.

 

Hi Jason,

 

It's that decline in the comic books stores' backstocks (and all the areas not served or no longer served by them ala Heinlein99's post) that led us to open HOC. We're in that spot for people who want to save time and also not deal with the amateur sellers Sulipa is talking about.

 

Board members are probably more in the "I want to hunt for it" and "I want a discount" camp. But there are plenty of others who are fed up with ebay or really don't mind paying guide for what they are looking for. It saves them time and piece of mind and of course for some people money really is no object.

 

Of course we do give discounts to our email list plus to forum members, so there's always some give-and-take there.

 

Also, after one has bought a few cheap ebay lots, where are you going to go to get those stray issues you still need? Buying lots gets old when you've already got 80% of the issues in the lot.

 

Anyway, these are just my further thoughts about back issue sources when you're faced with limited LCS and convention options. Yes, there's ebay, but there are other internet sources too.

 

Marc

[Thegoldenage]

Overstreet prices are NOT meant to reflect anything on eBay, Flea Markets or any other lowball or amateur seller market.

Overstreet reflects the prices you should expect to pay, if you buy from a Professional Comic Dealer, & thus is quite accurate.

MOST better & successful Price Guides, for ANY type of collectible do the same thing.

Overstreet is an average of Professional dealer retail prices. This is what MOST collectors WANT & what sells their guide.

 

I have a great deal of respect for Doug, but think his reasoning is off a bit.

 

His first comment smacks of dealer sour grapes. I have been hearing the "ebay sucks" and "fleabay" [embarrassing lack of self control] from dealers for several years. But yet these same dealers have no problem buying on ebay and then hiking the price up to sell at a con (they don't call it a "con" for nothing). And they are pissed that folks are putting their books up for sale on ebay and bypassing them completely. Face it guys, the Internet is where it's at now. Sites like Ebay, Heritage and Comiclink move more books that any dealer can dream of.

 

In respects to the last comment I quoted, Overstreet has always made it very clear in his guide that the guide is not a dealer's price list. It is a AVERAGE of prices gathered from many different facets of the hobby. If Overstreet doesn't factor in all major markets, he is more of a fool than I though.

[Forbush-Man]

I don't feel Doug's comments were all that far of the mark, myself.

 

It's easy to dissect his email, but in general he's pretty close to being on the mark.

 

Just MHO.

[toro]

Just a quick example - I'll sell you every single copy I can find of Amazing Spider-Man 28 in fine for $189. That's Guide. Market price for this book is about $35. in that grade.

 

What he doesn't grasp, and the majority of dealers don't grasp is that while eBay may not be the "only market" (I hear that canard all the time), it is the only one that matters for books in low- mid- and mid-to-high grades. If you want to buy mid-grade, attractive looking copies of essentially any book, you can find it online if you look long enough for a significant discount to "Guide."

 

Overstreet pricing on low- and mid-grade books is at least 50% too high, across the board, and in many cases much higher. I don't have a Guide in front of me to pull numbers, but take Amazing Spider-Man 25, which is a "major-minor" key (first Mary Jane). Overstreet "Good" is $36. The marketplace price is about $10.

 

Do you have an ASM 28 in Fine for $35?

 

And a 27 and 22 and 21 too?

 

I'll take one of each also!

[drbanner]

With ebay and convention "half-off" boxes full of post-1965, VF and lower books available at 30-50% of OS, it's obvious that guide prices reflect only what a LCS owner could sell these books for to someone that doesn't ebay, and has never been to a con. With GPA for high-grade books, OS is useless there as well.

 

Basically, the internet is the new price guide...and many dealers aren't too happy about it b/c 95% of their stock is made up of books that sell at 30-50% OS prices.

[thedude]

I'd like to add a thought I have as well, not about pricing really, but about availability in general...I started getting into Golden Age books around 1991 or so,..at least 5-7 years before online sites or eBay... back then the only sources to buy GA books (and most SA DCs), were comic trade mags such as CBM or one that no longer exsists Comic Source Magazine,.. dealers would list there adds in these trade mags and I would go through each of them looking for what I wanted which was mostly Action Comics 19-66, and Supermans 11-53, and I rarely if ever saw those issues listed for sale in theses trades....

 

now, fast forward to about 1997 or whenever eBay began, and while it still takes patience and alot of looking, these books do come up for sale on eBay fairly often, so while I feel GA is still fairly rare, the internet has connected the entire world... and it has become easier to track down hard to find books for your collection. so I feel that the easier availabliltiy should be reflected in the price. especially in SA books, but also too, demand always outweighs availability...I mean there must be several thousands of copies of Amazing Spiderman #1, however that is always a high demand issue, so the price should reflect that.... compare that to some of the Pre-Action #1 Platinum Age stuff, which is alot rarer but doesn't have as many people collecting it...