The Distribution of US Published Comics in the UK (1959~1982) 15 15

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/1/2024 at 8:26 PM, Malacoda said:

I'd love to know this.  Throughout the 60's, the Canuck dollar was worth about 93 yankee cents, so if they'd been re-pricing like for like, US Marvels would only have been 13c.  That said, there's no reason you'd necessarily charge the same cover price.  If I'd just had to drive a pallet of Lois Lane's to Iqaluit, I'd be charging the extra couple of cents for my trouble.  

My TOS #39, which I believe to be genuine (based largely on the fact that I cannot bear to think otherwise) has one of these stickers.  This would put it more than 5 years before US comics cost 15c, so it definitely can't be a leftover.   I've had a couple of look-throughs of comics for sale in Canada over the years, but not seen any of these stickers. 

(Though, just to reaffirm, this doesn't contradict what Eric says about the 70's - the two currencies were more or less dead on for 6 years in the 70's and didn't really part ways until 77/78). 

 

I've been collecting examples of those 15c stickers for years, predominantly in connection with the Charlton 15c variants that I posted about some years back where I was investigating a possible link. They exist across a number of years, for several publishers, and appear mostly in the US. My money would be on a single retailer or chain. I don't see any firm connection to Canadian pricing myself, and don't forget 15c variant copies exist for Charlton, Dell and Gold Key in the 1960s which have no Canadian connection. I track things which I think stand a chance of proving something. There has to be a significant enough volume extant before you can start making claims and assumptions so I spend a long time gathering before deciding whether to continue. There are a number of stamp / sticker types that I have tracked over the last 6 or 7 years, and these are one of them. There aren't enough of them to suggest anything other than a sole retailer for me, whether US or Canada. 

[Malacoda]

On 1/1/2024 at 8:59 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I track things which I think stand a chance of proving something. There has to be a significant enough volume extant before you can start making claims and assumptions so I spend a long time gathering before deciding whether to continue.

Yes and no.  I think the absence of any volume enables us to state that things are probably NOT related to whatever and prioritise the search.  In this case, I think if they were Canadian copies, you'd find some quantity of them on sale from Canadian sellers, so that would guide the search.  Similarly, if someone somewhere theorized that T&P stamps were from the UK, they could verify immediately by refining their search to the UK and they'd find that 99% of T&P stamps are on sale in the UK.  They wouldn't have to gather thousands of examples and then look for a common connection, it would become obvious immediately and be confirmed by the near-total-absence of those stamps from all other sources.  That logic could apply to other questions. 

Your theory is just a theory, but it sounds good to me.  The numbers in which these show up would tend to make one think they have a single source.  They're denominated in cents, which means they must have been on sale in the US, Canada, Aus, NZ, central or South America, the Caribbean or parts of Africa or the far East.  Probability would suggest the US as they're US copies, not reprints.  However, if they were being exported somewhere, that might be the reason for the increased cover price. 

I'd love to know the time frame of the ones you've found so far.  My TOS 39 is from March 1963 and this Cap 109 (neatly the same series) is from January 1969, which is still within the period they were being distributed by IND.  Likewise, the Robot's Lois Lane is from July 1968.  This would make me interested to know if there are DC ones beyond Oct 69 but no Marvels, which could put IND distribution into the frame as a common denominator.  However, you've got a whole stack of Charltons here, presumably distributed by Capital, so that likely blows that one out.  I think the time frame (so far discovered) would be interesting to know. Also, I think this Cap has a slightly different font, so is it just a different batch or a different retailer? Or a different branch of the same retailer? 

Something I take it we haven't seen is anything other than a 15c sticker in this style over anything other than a 12c original price?  If so, this puts an interesting time frame onto it.  Marvel and DC both moved prices up in what was pretty clearly a co ordinated increase in June/July 1969.   If these stickers disappear at that point (obviously they would not remain priced at 15c but they could continue), then someone was marking Marvel, DC and Charlton comics (and possibly others)  up to 15c for pretty much the entire time they were at 12c but stopped when the cover price moved to 15c.  This would suggest it was not another currency or foreign territory. 

 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

I concentrated on this format, which had a few subtle variations but for which I gathered enough copies to suggest (but not prove) a link / likely single retailer:

The key bit for me Rich - and I don't mean this to sound dismissive - is the interest / significance factor. I look for links to the physicality of comics, and their variations. There was no link that I could find to the Charlton 15c variants, so I filed them under 'that nice sticker that pops up occasionally' and mucked about with Kermit the Frog to make my online point. That point being, they existed, I'd noticed them, but there was no significance to them.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/2/2024 at 1:57 AM, Malacoda said:

On 1/1/2024 at 8:59 PM, Get Marwood & I said:

I track things which I think stand a chance of proving something. There has to be a significant enough volume extant before you can start making claims and assumptions so I spend a long time gathering before deciding whether to continue.

Yes and no.  I think the absence of any volume enables us to state that things are probably NOT related to whatever and prioritise the search. 

That's inferred. The absence can be the volume. The time spent looking to determine it is the key - a reasonable length of time spent to build up a significant volume of something - or nothing. Then you can start to speculate. 

When I discovered the RV stamp, I couldn't find many, to start. Would it just be another stamp, doing the rounds? No. I spent years looking and gathered hundreds of examples. I plotted them, their date range, discovered who RV were, and cemented them in as a piece of UK distribution history that no one (to my knowledge) had even noticed before, let alone mentioned. Ditto L Miller's UKPV and US original comic distribution. They'd passed everybody by until I got hold of them. Ditto Harvey 'UK' 15c variants. They're all important, Rich. Low volume, unbranded 15c stickers - scattered across a four year window - aren't I'm afraid. Currently 

[themagicrobot]

Well personally I find everything about old comics interesting. And speculation about those days when you could buy comics from outlets other than comic shops is fun. I think not as many comics went to waste as people think. Job lots and returns were recycled and sold on both in the US and the U.K. The 15 cent stickers are interesting because they appear on Charltons DCs and Marvels.

Perhaps someone acquired a stack of old returns/unsold warehouse stuff AFTER July 1969 and took advantage of the price rise to make some money.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:38 AM, themagicrobot said:

Well personally I find everything about old comics interesting.

Are you suggesting that I don't? 

[Malacoda]

On 1/2/2024 at 9:38 AM, themagicrobot said:

I think not as many comics went to waste as people think. Job lots and returns were recycled and sold on both in the US and the U.K.

I agree. In the US, we know about unsold returns being sold off by the car load (Jim Shooter gives an account of it) and in the UK, our friend Glenn reports that the GBD warehouse was stacked with palettes as far as the eye could see filled with returns dating back 20 years which were sold, pot luck, by the palette load to dealers.  When World Distributors' deal with Marvel finished, they had over a million returns backed up in the warehouse.   Imagine if you could go back.....they'd probably take £10k or something just to get rid of them.   You wouldn't have most of the keys (Hulk 181, IF 14, Star Wars 1, Spidey 121, 129 or 135, Spotlight 5, Hero for Hire 1,  GS  XMen 1, or 94 or 95) but you'd potentially have a whole stack of WBN 32 & 33, Drac 10, Eternals 1,  IM 55, Amazing Adventures 11, Ghost Rider 1-4, Spotlight 12, HTD 1, Ms. Marvel 16-18, Logan's Run 6, Star Wars 2-5, surprisingly Spidey 101 (SMCW wasn't launched yet so World distributed 99 - 120), all of the Kree/Skrull Avengers (not 89, but all the Adams issues) and pretty much the whole C&B run on Xmen (and 96-101).  I reckon you'd make your £10k back in the first week. 

[Get Marwood & I]

When I started this thread back in 2020 my intention was to work through all the publishers of US comics and see for which of them I could find examples of systematic UK distribution, in and around the UKPV date windows. One of those publishers was IW / Super and, although I could prove that they were distributed by L Miller, it was difficult to say much more about them as none of them were dated (hence their absence on MsCN). 

One thing I was able to establish over time was when the books were likely distributed over here based on Miller's switch from the 6d stamp to the 9d one. Using Miller's extensively distributed Harvey comics I was able to match the stamp date switch to the printed Charlton UKPV price change neatly and, therefore, show when the IWs would have been in UK circulation. It's one of those nice occasions where the stamp tells you something that the comic - being undated - doesn't. The books have indicative US dates recorded here and there, and are split by price and the 'Top Quality' / 'Super Comics' blocks, but we wouldn't know anything about when and how they were distributed in the UK if not for Miller's stamps.

There you go, Miller again, distributing original US comics under the radar. 

Here's one LM 6d 'Top Quality', and one LM 9d 'Super'.

 

I pick them up cheaply when I see them and they are nice books to flick through.

As is always the case, you can also find the odd rogue stamped copy, owner unknown. I like this 9d doubled up one, which would have been either 50% dearer than a Miller, if it were timely, or bang on - but bang out of date - if it wasn't:

Where else would you find double 9d stamped fighting frogmen online today?

Answer? Nowhere. Probably.

All good fun. 

[themagicrobot]

I found some “reading” copies mostly well defaced by Popular Book Centre stamps. Have you noticed how the Comic Code stamps sometimes have shading and sometimes don’t?

 

 

 

The January 1960 Wyatt Earp has a 6d Miller ink stamp as expected. The Black Fury is dated April 1959. If it was part of a batch that came into the UK later that year it was still un-Millered. 

 

 

Edited January 4 by themagicrobot

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:13 PM, themagicrobot said:

I found some “reading” copies mostly well defaced by Popular Book Centre stamps. Have you noticed how the Comic Code stamps sometimes have shading and sometimes don’t?

Nice looking lot that 

Good spot on the shading - it would be cool if it was specific to the pence copies, but a quick look and it doesn't seem to be.

Two of my old Kids here, to show the difference:

 

 

[Malacoda]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:13 PM, themagicrobot said:

Have you noticed how the Comic Code stamps sometimes have shading and sometimes don’t?

It came off this darker shading.  They also flip back & forth between the dark and light ones. You'd think it would change and stay changed, but it flips and flips. 

 

[Malacoda]

On 1/4/2024 at 10:39 AM, Get Marwood & I said:

When I started this thread back in 2020 my intention was to work through all the publishers of US comics and see for which of them I could find examples of systematic UK distribution, in and around the UKPV date windows. One of those publishers was IW / Super and, although I could prove that they were distributed by L Miller, it was difficult to say much more about them as none of them were dated (hence their absence on MsCN). 

One thing I was able to establish over time was when the books were likely distributed over here based on Miller's switch from the 6d stamp to the 9d one. Using Miller's extensively distributed Harvey comics I was able to match the stamp date switch to the printed Charlton UKPV price change neatly and, therefore, show when the IWs would have been in UK circulation. It's one of those nice occasions where the stamp tells you something that the comic - being undated - doesn't. The books have indicative US dates recorded here and there, and are split by price and the 'Top Quality' / 'Super Comics' blocks, but we wouldn't know anything about when and how they were distributed in the UK if not for Miller's stamps.

There you go, Miller again, distributing original US comics under the radar. 

Here's one LM 6d 'Top Quality', and one LM 9d 'Super'.

 

I pick them up cheaply when I see them and they are nice books to flick through.

As is always the case, you can also find the odd rogue stamped copy, owner unknown. I like this 9d doubled up one, which would have been either 50% dearer than a Miller, if it were timely, or bang on - but bang out of date - if it wasn't:

Where else would you find double 9d stamped fighting frogmen online today?

Answer? Nowhere. Probably.

All good fun. 

This is a great stuff.  You're really vacuuming into the corners here. 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/4/2024 at 6:50 PM, Malacoda said:

This is a great stuff.  You're really vacuuming into the corners here. 

 

Wait until you see what's under the rug Rich....

[Albert Tatlock]

On 1/4/2024 at 6:50 PM, Malacoda said:

This is a great stuff.  You're really vacuuming into the corners here. 

 

https://merrymaids.co.uk/spring-clean-flash/freddy-mercury-gif/

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/4/2024 at 7:36 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

On 1/4/2024 at 6:50 PM, Malacoda said:

This is a great stuff.  You're really vacuuming into the corners here. 

 

https://merrymaids.co.uk/spring-clean-flash/freddy-mercury-gif/

Funnily enough, that's exactly what I was wearing

[Malacoda]

Was it just me or did Roger Taylor look disturbingly pretty in that video?

 

Just me then. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:07 PM, Malacoda said:

Was it just me or did Roger Taylor look disturbingly pretty in that video?

 

Just me then. 

Is that Nellie Oleson?

[Malacoda]

A case could be made. 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:14 PM, Malacoda said:

A case could be made. 

Fwoooaarr

[Malacoda]

Speaking of American Beauties....check out the super accurate stickering on this one....

Slap bang on the oblong 10d'er.  

This is a great comic.  It's a Charlton, it's from July 1966, so smack on the 2nd hiatus (assuming it was a return), and then it's been stamped with Mr. Oblong Stamp at 10d and then re-stickered at a 1/-, so presumably went round UK distribution at least twice.  When did the Charlies go up to 1/- ? I assume same time as Marvel & DC? 

Well, that's your Christmas present sorted out for next year. 

Edited January 4 by Malacoda