GreatCaesarsGhost Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) To me, it appears as though the spine has been moved. Or is the spine trauma, as seen from back cover, just a normal byproduct of pressing? am I just seeing pink elephants? Edited July 5, 2020 by GreatCaesarsGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) Eldon Pedigree. Nice looking copy. It looks fine to me, but it's tough to say once the book is in the holder... Edited July 5, 2020 by The Lions Den GreatCaesarsGhost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post comicquant Posted July 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 5, 2020 Looks like spine roll fix was likely done with this one. Aside from the trauma line being down the back offset from the spine about 1/4 inch, you can tell by the missing paper at the top and bottom of the spine. Those defects probably used to be centered on the spine and are now on the back. GreatCaesarsGhost, The Lions Den, silverseeker and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted July 6, 2020 Author Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) Turns out, @MasterChief found the proof that it HAS undergone a spine manipulation: Edited July 6, 2020 by GreatCaesarsGhost jcjames, Hutch88, silverseeker and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadzukes Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) Spine realignment came at the cost of a detached centerfold. The 7.0 seems like a gift grade knowing the CF detached (from TWO staples). Hmmmmmm? Edited July 6, 2020 by gadzukes HuddyBee, The Lions Den and Randall Dowling 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Dowling Posted July 6, 2020 Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, gadzukes said: Spine realignment came at the cost of a detached centerfold. The 7.0 seems like a gift grade knowing the CF detached. Hmmmmmm? That's what I thought also. The other thing that bothers me is what was a binder chip is no longer that, but rather a chunk off of the back cover. I don't think it should be considered a production defect once somebody Costanzas the book like this. The problem is that CGC is rewarding this kind of behavior. Period. If they penalized this move, it wouldn't happen anymore and we'd have a lot more books surviving in better condition, longer. As it is, perhaps the most embarrassing aspect of this is that the book looked better before. This really is like plastic surgery for comics now. And just like the horrible things wealthy and famous people do to themselves trying to "look younger", it's gross and doesn't age well. Congratulations to the presser and the person that had it pressed. GreatCaesarsGhost, The Lions Den and Randall Ries 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Lions Den Posted July 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Randall Dowling said: That's what I thought also. The other thing that bothers me is what was a binder chip is no longer that, but rather a chunk off of the back cover. I don't think it should be considered a production defect once somebody Costanzas the book like this. The problem is that CGC is rewarding this kind of behavior. Period. If they penalized this move, it wouldn't happen anymore and we'd have a lot more books surviving in better condition, longer. As it is, perhaps the most embarrassing aspect of this is that the book looked better before. This really is like plastic surgery for comics now. And just like the horrible things wealthy and famous people do to themselves trying to "look younger", it's gross and doesn't age well. Congratulations to the presser and the person that had it pressed. I understand that folks like to make their books as visually appealing as possible, but I do have to say that I could appreciate the book more in it's original condition. And it's pretty hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that the book could have a detached centerfold and still be considered a 7.0... GreatCaesarsGhost, MatterEaterLad, silverseeker and 6 others 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EC Star&Bar Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 To me, the book looked more visually appealing (and natural) with the pages splayed out when looking at the back -- the original. Now, the interior is highly visible from the front -- me no like...! Anyway, the pedigree status could result in the grader being slightly more lenient than normal. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) On 7/6/2020 at 2:36 PM, The Lions Den said: I understand that folks like to make their books as visually appealing as possible, but I do have to say that I could appreciate the book more in it's original condition. And it's pretty hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that the book could have a detached centerfold and still be considered a 7.0... me too, especially since we know that it was once attached. That becomes a pretty big flaw and it really sucks that a book that looked amazing and was held together for 75 years has now worsened. Seems almost sacrilegious. I wonder what that centrefold looks like now, are there rips along the staples, that sort of thing. I could understand a 7.0 if the book was made that way (since then it's just a manufacturing defect) but it does not make sense here. EDIT: Wait a sec I know what's going on here. It's a 7.0 green label but CGC always has issues with special labels made for universal that take precedence in their systems. So since there are no qualified pedigree labels, this got the gold but is probably a qualified comic. Edited July 7, 2020 by William-James88 The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadzukes Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, William-James88 said: me too, especially since we know that it was once attached. That becomes a pretty big flaw and it really sucks that a book that looked amazing and was held together for 75 years has now worsened. Seems almost sacrilegious. I wonder what that centrefold looks like now, are there rips along the staples, that sort of thing. I could understand a 7.0 if the book was made that way (since then it's just a manufacturing defect) but it does not make sense here. EDIT: Wait a sec I know what's going on here. It's a 7.0 green label but CGC always has issues with special labels made for universal that take precedence in their systems. So since there are no qualified pedigree labels, this got the gold but is probably a qualified comic. Shouldn't the word "Qualified" be on the label somewhere? That's kind of confusing. At least the label notes are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Just now, gadzukes said: Shouldn't the word "Qualified" be on the label somewhere? That's kind of confusing. At least the label notes are there. Qualified has it's distinctive colour that comes with the labelling. If it's not part of the system, it might not appear. We already saw this happen on other specialty labels where the words qualified were not there. I'll report it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, William-James88 said: me too, especially since we know that it was once attached. That becomes a pretty big flaw and it really sucks that a book that looked amazing and was held together for 75 years has now worsened. Seems almost sacrilegious. I wonder what that centrefold looks like now, are there rips along the staples, that sort of thing. I could understand a 7.0 if the book was made that way (since then it's just a manufacturing defect) but it does not make sense here. EDIT: Wait a sec I know what's going on here. It's a 7.0 green label but CGC always has issues with special labels made for universal that take precedence in their systems. So since there are no qualified pedigree labels, this got the gold but is probably a qualified comic. You make a good point---just because a book is a pedigree doesn't mean it can't be Qualified... Edited July 7, 2020 by The Lions Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 FYI, I reached out to CGC in case to know if there was an error (not just with this book but with having qualified books given gold labels) and they stated that there is no error. This book was deemed 7.0 since it is the highest grade achievable with a detached centrefold (which was confirmed to be detached during the process). This in no way changes any opinion I previously stated, I think what happened here is not advantageous even though a higher grade was obtained in the process. It is also really making me doubt part of the grading standards, both in the fact of what how a detached centrefold affects the grade AND how much the spine roll brought the grade down. I always thought that a spine roll (if the comic was made that way) should have minimal impact once you fall below the near mint minus range. Basically, what I mean is I believe mint is mint (using term here in the general sense), regardless of spine roll. What we had before was a book with minimal wear and the main defect was a production defect while now the main defect is from people manipulating the book. And yet the later has been given a higher grade. Feels like Bizarro graded the comic. aardvark88 and silverseeker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lions Den Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, William-James88 said: FYI, I reached out to CGC in case to know if there was an error (not just with this book but with having qualified books given gold labels) and they stated that there is no error. This book was deemed 7.0 since it is the highest grade achievable with a detached centrefold (which was confirmed to be detached during the process). This in no way changes any opinion I previously stated, I think what happened here is not advantageous even though a higher grade was obtained in the process. It is also really making me doubt part of the grading standards, both in the fact of what how a detached centrefold affects the grade AND how much the spine roll brought the grade down. I always thought that a spine roll (if the comic was made that way) should have minimal impact once you fall below the near mint minus range. Basically, what I mean is I believe mint is mint (using term here in the general sense), regardless of spine roll. What we had before was a book with minimal wear and the main defect was a production defect while now the main defect is from people manipulating the book. And yet the later has been given a higher grade. Feels like Bizarro graded the comic. Thanks for reaching out to them, but I had a feeling this was intentional (the tip-off for me was the "centerfold detached" notation on the label was written in lower case, not capital letters). Ah well, I guess you learn something every day... Edited July 8, 2020 by The Lions Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadzukes Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, The Lions Den said: Thanks for reaching out to them, but I had a feeling this was intentional (the tip-off for me was the "centerfold detached" notation on the label was written in lower case, not capital letters). Ah well, I guess you learn something every day... The next time I submit something that might need a label notation I'm going to request lowercase letters and an even tinier font size. Edited July 8, 2020 by gadzukes The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatCaesarsGhost Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, gadzukes said: The next time I submit something that might need a label notation I'm going to request lowercase letters and an even tinier font size. And an apology The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuddyBee Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) I feel like this grade would make a little more sense if the book was say a NM copy other than the detached CF. But the book barely looks like a 7.0 even if the CF was attached, I really don't get it. My question is why didn't the book have the detached CF noted in the original slab? Was it even detached then, or could it have come detached during the pressing? (I may have missed if this was answered) Edited July 9, 2020 by HuddyBee silverseeker, The Lions Den and Randall Dowling 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 21 minutes ago, HuddyBee said: I feel like this grade would make a little more sense if the book was say a NM copy other than the detached CF. But the book barely looks like a 7.0 even if the CF was attached, I really don't get it. My question is why didn't the book have the detached CF noted in the original slab? Was it even detached then, or could it have come detached during the pressing? (I may have missed if this was answered) It was attached before. It came apart when the spine was realigned. Which is why this is pretty darn incredulous that the grade after the CF was detached is the higher grade. The Lions Den, Randall Dowling, silverseeker and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuddyBee Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 11 hours ago, William-James88 said: It was attached before. It came apart when the spine was realigned. Which is why this is pretty darn incredulous that the grade after the CF was detached is the higher grade. Thanks, I agree this seems like a gross over-grade. I know that CGC is sometimes more lenient with GA books but this seems pretty crazy to me. I always thought a detached CF brought a book down to at least a 5.0 or a 4.0. The Lions Den 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gadzukes Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 14 hours ago, William-James88 said: It was attached before. It came apart when the spine was realigned. Which is why this is pretty darn incredulous that the grade after the CF was detached is the higher grade. This is when an experienced Presser might have stepped in to say, "In my professional opinion we should not press this because the CF is too fragile at the staples. I'd love to take your money, but we should pass on this comic." Phill the Governor, The Lions Den, silverseeker and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...