Combined investment will cause Golden Age (Collectors) to explode 3 3

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:26 PM, eschnit said:

On 8/25/2021 at 1:18 PM, valiantman said:

Your suggestion for 100 digital DC 27s and 100 digital Action 1s is basically what the sports card industry has done since 2000 (Tom Brady limited rookies), and it has made those recent creations worth $100,000 each.

I'd much rather own 1% of an actual historical artifact from the dawn of the superhero era than 1% of the "best printing" of Tom Brady (or Mike Trout, etc.) rookie cards from this century.

It should at least be an option.

I respect you man, from back to the Valiant boards and what you continue to bring to this hobby with the CGC census data and all.  My opinion here has a lot to do with personal preference.  I feel like we lose something as a society the more we go down these roads. I wanted a Bloodshot 0 Platinum error or Suspense 3 for many reasons, but part of it is rarity, and chase, and that it’s tangible.  We gain something by being able to own part of a super rare collectible, we otherwise couldn’t afford, but I feel like we lose more.

Again, I have to disagree.

If you can afford the whole thing, buy it.  You don't lose anything if you can afford the whole thing.

If you can't afford the whole thing, you gain something from being able to own a part.

Who loses?

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:27 PM, sfcityduck said:

On 8/25/2021 at 1:25 PM, valiantman said:

 

I want stock in Action #1.  Not the whole thing, not form an investment group to buy an Action #1, just stock.

To paraphrase Spock and Kirk, sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the desires of the one.

So ironic.  The "many" would be investors like me, and the one would be the guy who can afford the whole thing outright.

Edited August 25, 2021 by valiantman

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:27 PM, sfcityduck said:

Spock and Kirk

If we are bringing them into this... 

[sfcityduck]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:27 AM, valiantman said:

 

If you can't afford the whole thing, you gain something from being able to own a part.

Who loses?

Tell me everything you gain, and I'll tell you who loses.

[sfcityduck]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:29 AM, valiantman said:

So ironic.  The "many" would be investors like me, and the one would be the guy who can afford the whole thing outright.

No. The many would be the comic collecting community, and the one would be the guy who really really really wants fractional ownership of comic books no matter the consequence to the hobby.

[MrBedrock]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:26 PM, valiantman said:

None of those options would have been as attractive as buying a % of Action #1 at the current market price of the day.

So you think that Action 1 has had a higher rate of return than any stock over an equivalent period of time?

[eschnit]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:27 PM, valiantman said:

Again, I have to disagree.

If you can afford the whole thing, buy it.  You don't lose anything if you can afford the whole thing.

If you can't afford the whole thing, you gain something from being able to own a part.

Who loses?

So let’s say that I own an actual Batman 1, I paid $500k in 2022 from a Heritage auction, and it’s trading on an exchange now in 2024 where 1% is $8000.  So the book is worth $800k digitally.  Is this book being traded, the book that I own?   If so, what happens if the book is stolen, or burns in a fire?  

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:33 PM, MrBedrock said:

On 8/25/2021 at 1:26 PM, valiantman said:

None of those options would have been as attractive as buying a % of Action #1 at the current market price of the day.

So you think that Action 1 has had a higher rate of return than any stock over an equivalent period of time?

No, I think that Action #1 has a higher satisfaction in ownership, than all the other stocks and comics that I did purchase 20 years ago.

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:33 PM, sfcityduck said:

On 8/25/2021 at 1:29 PM, valiantman said:

So ironic.  The "many" would be investors like me, and the one would be the guy who can afford the whole thing outright.

No. The many would be the comic collecting community, and the one would be the guy who really really really wants fractional ownership of comic books no matter the consequence to the hobby.

If I'm the only guy who wants a fractional share, then I'm out of luck.  But if 100,000 of me want to own 10 copies of Action #1, then the market will explode... and we're back to the name of this topic.

[eschnit]

Marvel stock outperformed every Marvel 1st appearance from 2000 to 2012 multiple times over.  Every one. This had to do with the movies coming out.  X-Men, then Spider-Man, and soon all of them.  People were buying the stock because the value of the franchise was going up.  ie they were making more profit, more earnings, with more promise for the future.  Those earnings could be divvied up in dividends or put in the coffers.  The cash coming in could be reinvested in the company to pay big name actors or advertise to make even more money, or sell out, to say Disney.  
 

The books don’t make money.  They don’t pay dividends.  They can’t be sold to another company that feels like they want the cash flow machine themselves.  The books went up in value.  AF 15 went up multiple times over.  But it went up because collectors wanted to own the collectible.  I don’t have an interest in a portfolio of digital comics that aren’t real.  But markets aren’t made off of those that don’t invest.  So 1 person’s opinion isn’t that relevant.

Edited August 25, 2021 by eschnit

[MrBedrock]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:37 PM, valiantman said:

No, I think that Action #1 has a higher satisfaction in ownership, than all the other stocks and comics that I did purchase 20 years ago.

How would it compare to the satisfaction in argument that you get with this thread?

[vheflin]

On 8/25/2021 at 2:37 PM, valiantman said:

No, I think that Action #1 has a higher satisfaction in ownership, than all the other stocks and comics that I did purchase 20 years ago.

the EROI

emotional return on investment

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:34 PM, eschnit said:

So let’s say that I own an actual Batman 1, I paid $500k in 2022 from a Heritage auction, and it’s trading on an exchange now in 2024 where 1% is $8000.  So the book is worth $800k digitally.  Is this book being traded, the book that I own?   If so, what happens if the book is stolen, or burns in a fire?  

Hopefully you have a VERY good insurance policy that covers the loss and takes that into account of FMV.. 

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:31 PM, sfcityduck said:

On 8/25/2021 at 1:27 PM, valiantman said:

 

If you can't afford the whole thing, you gain something from being able to own a part.

Who loses?

Tell me everything you gain, and I'll tell you who loses.

I own 20,000 comic books outright, and over 1,000 CGC slabs.  I am satisfied that I have a strong comic collection, but I don't own any part of Action #1 besides some posters, tins, and reprints.  I would buy an Action #1 outright, if I could. Instead, I would like to add "investment in a real Action #1" to my collection, even though it's not a tangible addition that I'll be able to see.  I'll gain satisfaction from that fact.

[sfcityduck]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:37 AM, valiantman said:

No, I think that Action #1 has a higher satisfaction in ownership, than all the other stocks and comics that I did purchase 20 years ago.

What is the satisfaction in ownership of owning, to use your example, a $100 digital share of an Action 1 you can't even hold?

[sfcityduck]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:39 AM, MrBedrock said:

How would it compare to the satisfaction in argument that you get with this thread?

I think for both of us it is a small fraction.  Kudos to Valiantman for putting up a strong discussion.

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:39 PM, MrBedrock said:

On 8/25/2021 at 1:37 PM, valiantman said:

No, I think that Action #1 has a higher satisfaction in ownership, than all the other stocks and comics that I did purchase 20 years ago.

How would it compare to the satisfaction in argument that you get with this thread?

It's not a bad substitute.  What's my equity?

[valiantman]

On 8/25/2021 at 1:42 PM, sfcityduck said:

On 8/25/2021 at 1:37 PM, valiantman said:

No, I think that Action #1 has a higher satisfaction in ownership, than all the other stocks and comics that I did purchase 20 years ago.

What is the satisfaction in ownership of owning, to use your example, a $100 digital share of an Action 1 you can't even hold?

Less than if I could hold it, more than if I didn't own any part of it.  I'd say it's worth about $100.

[valiantman]

For the record, if I did own a fraction of Action #1, I would tell my Action #21, #26, #27, #29, #42 slabs that I believe their older brother is doing just fine under lock and key at someone else's house.

Edited August 25, 2021 by valiantman

[sfcityduck]

On 8/25/2021 at 11:44 AM, valiantman said:

Less than if I could hold it, more than if I didn't own any part of it.  

But what aspect of the fractional ownership gives you satisfaction?  All I can think of is boasting rights. After all, you can't hold it, read it, etc.  Sort of like a tree falling in the woods, would you have the same satisfaction if no one knew you had it.  After all, you could buy a fractional ownership in Time-Warner and Disney and own a tiny fraction of every comic DC and Marvel ever published.  But, that doesn't seem good enough for you.  So what's the difference?  The money?  The boasting?  What?

Edited August 25, 2021 by sfcityduck