A Comicconect Batman #1 auction 0

[Randall Ries]

So, we see that ComicConnect is going to auction off their (or someone's) CGC 8.0 owp copy of Bat 1. It was being offered at $800.000. No bites at that price. But am I reading this right? If I won the book for say $800,000, for that privilege I would get to pay sales tax at say 5% ($40,000) AND a buyers premium of $120,000? Or does that actually mean the SELLER is paying the 15%? I love this book and would like to own it. I never will, though. In 1983, I was offered my choice of 3 Bat 1's in the 5.0-6.0 range for $3k. I didn't have $3k then. I don't have $800,000 effing dollars either. I should start a GoFundMe. LOL!

[Mmehdy]

Very nice copy....

[Superman2006]

2 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

So, we see that ComicConnect is going to auction off their (or someone's) CGC 8.0 owp copy of Bat 1. It was being offered at $800.000. No bites at that price. But am I reading this right? If I won the book for say $800,000, for that privilege I would get to pay sales tax at say 5% ($40,000) AND a buyers premium of $120,000? Or does that actually mean the SELLER is paying the 15%? I love this book and would like to own it. I never will, though. In 1983, I was offered my choice of 3 Bat 1's in the 5.0-6.0 range for $3k. I didn't have $3k then. I don't have $800,000 effing dollars either. I should start a GoFundMe. LOL!

 I believe the correct answer is that no one is "paying" the 15%. If someone valued the book at say $1,150,000 for example, then knowing that there is a 15% buyers premium, if they can do math (or if CC does the math for them during the auction like HA does), then they should limit their bid to $1,000,000, knowing that if they win it they'll be out of pocket $1,150,000 for it (before taxes, if applicable, and no resale certificate, or whatever). As such, the buyer isn't paying the 15%, they're just paying the same $1,150,000 that they would have paid for it at any other auction venue. Now from the seller's point of view, IF they negotiated with CC that they would just pay them what I believe to be CC's standard 10% seller's commission, except applied to the total sale price including the so-called buyers premium, then that would mean that that seller would pay $115,000 to CC (if it sold for $1,150,000).

Edit: Added the following: IF on the other hand the consignor negotiated with CC that they would get the full bid amount prior to the buyers premium, then they would net $1,000,000 if the sale price before buyers premium is $1,000,000, and CC would get $150,000 (the amount of the buyers premium). In this case, the consignor would have effectively "paid" the buyers premium, which would result in an effective commission rate of 150,000 / 1,150,000 = 13.04%.

In conclusion, if the buyer can do math (or if CC does the math for the buyer), the buyer isn't "paying" the buyers premium, and the commission rate paid by the consignor depends on the terms of the agreement between the consignor and the auction house.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Superman2006

[Randall Ries]

20 minutes ago, Superman2006 said:

 I believe the correct answer is that no one is "paying" the 15%. If someone valued the book at say $1,150,000 for example, then knowing that there is a 15% buyers premium, if they can do math (or if CC does the math for them during the auction like HA does), then they should limit their bid to $1,000,000, knowing that if they win it they'll be out of pocket $1,150,000 for it (before taxes, if applicable, and no resale certificate, or whatever). As such, the buyer isn't paying the 15%, they're just paying the same $1,150,000 that they would have paid for it at any other auction venue. Now from the seller's point of view, IF they negotiated with CC that they would just pay them what I believe to be CC's standard 10% seller's commission, except applied to the total sale price including the so-called buyers premium, then that would mean that that seller would pay $115,000 to CC (if it sold for $1,150,000).

Edit: Added the following: IF on the other hand the consignor negotiated with CC that they would get the full bid amount prior to the buyers premium, then they would net $1,000,000 if the sale price before buyers premium is $1,000,000, and CC would get $150,000 (the amount of the buyers premium). In this case, the consignor would have effectively "paid" the buyers premium, which would result in an effective commission rate of 150,000 / 1,150,000 = 13.04%.

In conclusion, if the buyer can do math (or if CC does the math for the buyer), the buyer isn't "paying" the buyers premium, and the commission rate paid by the consignor depends on the terms of the agreement between the consignor and the auction house.

Thanks for that concise and informative answer! I must assume then that the consignor must have made an agreement with CC beforehand as the book has been for sale for quite some time at $800k That is certainly a good deal for CC aka Metropolis.

[Superman2006]

Just now, Randall Ries said:

Thanks for that concise and informative answer! I must assume then that the consignor must have made an agreement with CC beforehand as the book has been for sale for quite some time at $800k That is certainly a good deal for CC aka Metropolis.

Anytime, although it probably wasn't very concise, ha ha. Yes, with whatever commission is received and the market exposure, it's probably a good deal for the auction house anytime a book of that magnitude is consigned with them.

[Gotham Kid]

6 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

So, we see that ComicConnect is going to auction off their (or someone's) CGC 8.0 owp copy of Bat 1. It was being offered at $800.000. No bites at that price. But am I reading this right?

It was the Larson Batman1 8.0 being offered at 800K. This is a different copy. Also, it is a consignment.

Edited January 31, 2021 by Gotham Kid

[alexgross.com]

its a gorgeous copy, but between the incredibly sluggish to load website and now the st*pid buyers tax, i see no good reason to use comicconnect any longer. 

[lou_fine]

8 hours ago, www.alexgross.com said:

its a gorgeous copy, but between the incredibly sluggish to load website and now the st*pid buyers tax, i see no good reason to use comicconnect any longer. 

FYI:  If you have been following the other thread, this 15% BP is limited only to books being auctioned off by this one particular consignor, as all other books in their upcoming Event Auction does not have a Buyer's Premium tack onto them.  

Not sure about their so-called sluggish to load website, especially since I have found that their 3-minute extended bidding time periods is more than enough time for me load up their listing, in addition to doing historical research through HA and CC archives, looking at CGC census population, etc. in order to determine if I should go higher on my bid increments or not.    

Edited February 1, 2021 by lou_fine

[lou_fine]

23 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

Thanks for that concise and informative answer! I must assume then that the consignor must have made an agreement with CC beforehand as the book has been for sale for quite some time at $800k That is certainly a good deal for CC aka Metropolis.

I believe this arrangement was already explained by @G.A.tor through his post on the other thread here:

On 12/25/2020 at 3:21 AM, G.A.tor said:

I believe the consignor gets the 15% without paying 10% on the bp. So, if I’m understanding correctly, if winning bid is 1000, 100 goes to cc and consignor gets 1050

versus a 1150 winning bid where cc gets 115 and consignor gets 1035. 
 

in that respect , consignor might ask for the bp so they realize 1.5% more?

 

Or for further clarification or confusion, another example which I had posted in the other htread here:

On 1/23/2021 at 3:26 PM, lou_fine said:

..............................according to Gator in his post above, the 15% BP goes to the consignor with CC now getting to keep the 10% SP, but only applied against the so-called "hammer" amount.  In effect, this means that CC will end up with only 8.7% of the final total and the consignor receives 91.3% of the final total, as compared to the traditional 90%/10% spilt which was the standard in the past.  

At least, that's my reading from what Gator posted here back on Page 117 of the other thread:  

 

 

[Randall Ries]

16 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I believe this arrangement was already explained by @G.A.tor through his post on the other thread here:

 

Or for further clarification or confusion, another example which I had posted in the other htread here:

 

Still a good haul for CC. A little less than $100,000 if the book sells for $1M. And for what? Hosting a picture of the book and writing up a little blurb.

[Randall Ries]

9 hours ago, www.alexgross.com said:

its a gorgeous copy, but between the incredibly sluggish to load website and now the st*pid buyers tax, i see no good reason to use comicconnect any longer. 

It's Metro Jr. I'd rather a private sale v going through HA and Metro. And yeah. That GD tax. Plus I imagine the seller is going to pay an income tax on a $1M sale as well less the fees they will pay to have their own book brokered for them. Everybody wants a bite.

[lou_fine]

19 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Still a good haul for CC. A little less than $100,000 if the book sells for $1M. And for what? Hosting a picture of the book and writing up a little blurb.

I guess the question for you then if you were the consignor is:  Where would you go to sell your book for $1M without having to pay any fees at all?  

Especially since I believe that Craigslist is probably not the best place for you to go to hoping that buyers will be willing to throw a million dollars to you for your  used comic book.  

[Randall Ries]

38 minutes ago, lou_fine said:

I guess the question for you then if you were the consignor is:  Where would you go to sell your book for $1M without having to pay any fees at all?  

Especially since I believe that Craigslist is probably not the best place for you to go to hoping that buyers will be willing to throw a million dollars to you for your  used comic book.  

Of course not. A. If I had a copy of that book in that grade, I would never sell it. B. If I had to, there are other ways of selling antiques. I imagine there are buyers who would like to avoid fees as well.

[lou_fine]

10 minutes ago, Randall Ries said:

Of course not. A. If I had a copy of that book in that grade, I would never sell it. B. If I had to, there are other ways of selling antiques. I imagine there are buyers who would like to avoid fees as well.

Being a long time collector myself, I would tend to agree with your first point here.  

On your second point though, although there are always other ways to sell antiques and/or collectibles, it might not necessarily mean that those ways will be getting you top dollar for your item.  Especially, if you are looking for cheapo buyers who also want to avoid paying fees, they are probably also the ones that wil be hoping to pay you only "scrape the barrel" bottom dollar for your item.    

[Randall Ries]

10 hours ago, lou_fine said:

Being a long time collector myself, I would tend to agree with your first point here.  

On your second point though, although there are always other ways to sell antiques and/or collectibles, it might not necessarily mean that those ways will be getting you top dollar for your item.  Especially, if you are looking for cheapo buyers who also want to avoid paying fees, they are probably also the ones that wil be hoping to pay you only "scrape the barrel" bottom dollar for your item.    

Well, they have two hands. They have hope in one. In the other, they have....