1st appearance League Of Assassins? 0

[Randall Ries]

I always thought Detective 405 was the first appearance of The League Of Assassins. Isn't it actually Strange Adventures 215? It's the same organization. They went from Society Of Assassins to League Of Assassins back to Society of Assassins again. Featuring Curare as a Batman villain. Maybe I am confused

[Savoyard23]

Since I need a Detective 405 and don't collect Strange Adventures, I endorse this viewpoint wholeheartedly.

[Randall Ries]

4 hours ago, Savoyard23 said:

Since I need a Detective 405 and don't collect Strange Adventures, I endorse this viewpoint wholeheartedly.

SA 215 was 2 years before Tec 405. Seems like that would be the 1st app League Of Assassins.

[Zonker]

Here's what I think is going on.  The Society of Assassins with the Sensei as its apparent leader indeed first appeared in Strange Adventures 215, apparently written as well as illustrated by Neal Adams.  Then a couple of years later, Denny O'Neil introduces the League of Assassins in Detective 405, part of the foreshadowing of the introduction of Ras al Ghul, the "Head of the Demon," i.e. the leader of the League of Assassins.  Then, a couple of years after that, fan turned pro Mike Friedrich tied together the 2 organizations when he wrote Justice League of America #94.  Fans-turned-pro tend to make these connections where there were none before.  So JLA #94 ret-cons the 2 groups to be actually the same group, with Ras al Ghul as the Head, and the Sensei as kind of the organization's enforcer.  When Denny O'Neil returned to write about Ras al Ghul in Detective 485 & following, he embraced the ret-con, and for the first time included the Sensei into the mix.  Or maybe Denny's editor Paul Levitz (another fan-turned-pro) told him to do it.

 

[Randall Ries]

13 minutes ago, Zonker said:

Here's what I think is going on.  The Society of Assassins with the Sensei as its apparent leader indeed first appeared in Strange Adventures 215, apparently written as well as illustrated by Neal Adams.  Then a couple of years later, Denny O'Neil introduces the League of Assassins in Detective 405, part of the foreshadowing of the introduction of Ras al Ghul, the "Head of the Demon," i.e. the leader of the League of Assassins.  Then, a couple of years after that, fan turned pro Mike Friedrich tied together the 2 organizations when he wrote Justice League of America #94.  Fans-turned-pro tend to make these connections where there were none before.  So JLA #94 ret-cons the 2 groups to be actually the same group, with Ras al Ghul as the Head, and the Sensei as kind of the organization's enforcer.  When Denny O'Neil returned to write about Ras al Ghul in Detective 485 & following, he embraced the ret-con, and for the first time included the Sensei into the mix.  Or maybe Denny's editor Paul Levitz (another fan-turned-pro) told him to do it.

 

That seems to make sense. Thank you! So it's a fair statement to say SA 215 is the actual 1st App of SOA/LOA?

[Zonker]

9 hours ago, Randall Ries said:

That seems to make sense. Thank you! So it's a fair statement to say SA 215 is the actual 1st App of SOA/LOA?

I'm not sure that question lends itself to a simple yes/no.  SA 215 is certainly the first appearance of the Society of Assasins (and of the Sensei.)  Whether it is also the first appearance of the League of Assasins depends on your view of the subsequent ret-con.  There is no evidence that anyone thought about the Society of Assasins as an eventual Batman antagonist back in SA215.  And no evidence anyone thought about SA215 when they later created Detective 405.

[Randall Ries]

23 minutes ago, Zonker said:

I'm not sure that question lends itself to a simple yes/no.  SA 215 is certainly the first appearance of the Society of Assasins (and of the Sensei.)  Whether it is also the first appearance of the League of Assasins depends on your view of the subsequent ret-con.  There is no evidence that anyone thought about the Society of Assasins as an eventual Batman antagonist back in SA215.  And no evidence anyone thought about SA215 when they later created Detective 405.

That IS true. But the retcon DID take place and is now canonical. Joe Chill wasn't immediately identified as T & M Wayne's killer but there he is. Killing Bruce's parents every time he goes into a PTSD trance. There are many examples of things/people being given an identity long after the fact.

I ask only because one of the other grading companies make that notation (I think rightfully) on their labels on SA 215. I hadn't given it any thought before that.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Randall Ries

[LDarkseid1]

Bringing this back, because I hate the fact SA 215 and 216 isn’t considered the first and second appearance of the League of Assassins 🤣.