To all the folks complaining about the increase in OA prices this past year... 1 1

[vodou]

1 hour ago, sfilosa said:

There are great artist, who have great art, that just isn't available that often (at least in the open market). Comic books, cards, coins, etc. are increasingly available. And that's what is attractive to speculators.

Respectfully and without snark: What great art by great artists is not available on HA in any rolling 12 month period? Could be some outliers but I think you can mostly get whatever you want (by type, not a specific issue and page #) these days at auction if you're willing (and able) to spend more than anyone else that day.

[sfilosa]

33 minutes ago, vodou said:

Respectfully and without snark: What great art by great artists is not available on HA in any rolling 12 month period? Could be some outliers but I think you can mostly get whatever you want (by type, not a specific issue and page #) these days at auction if you're willing (and able) to spend more than anyone else that day.

Jim Steranko comic art (not a commission or sketch) is extremely hard to find. 

Also, I will also say that the quality of most pages are not "A or A+". While Steve Ditko pages come along every few months, how many have Spider-Man actually fighting a real villain. Very few (maybe one or two a year). 

I will agree that more "modern artist" (say last 40 years) art is pretty plentiful, especially as prices have risen (Byrne or Jim Lee X-Men, McFarlane Spider-Man, etc.)

 

 

 

 

 

[Timely]

1 hour ago, sfilosa said:

Jim Steranko comic art (not a commission or sketch) is extremely hard to find. 

Also, I will also say that the quality of most pages are not "A or A+". While Steve Ditko pages come along every few months, how many have Spider-Man actually fighting a real villain. Very few (maybe one or two a year). 

I will agree that more "modern artist" (say last 40 years) art is pretty plentiful, especially as prices have risen (Byrne or Jim Lee X-Men, McFarlane Spider-Man, etc.)

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, Ditko Spider-Man battle pages are few and far between! Only a few hundred even exist!

Edited May 27, 2021 by Timely

[sfilosa]

Pretty sure you would back me up on that one!!!

[Legion of Goom]

On 5/26/2021 at 12:01 AM, Xatari said:

I have been cashing out of books and buying OA for the past 12 months. Setting up the 5-10 year long game. 

https://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=140502

Same. I've had to be quick on the draw to land the pieces I was lucky enough to grab, but I definitely feel like I've been getting more bang for the buck by reallocating. 

[Xatari]

38 minutes ago, Legion of Goom said:

Same. I've had to be quick on the draw to land the pieces I was lucky enough to grab, but I definitely feel like I've been getting more bang for the buck by reallocating. 

Agreed. I feel like I’m ok paying a little above market for OA right now as long as the money is coming from books given some of these pieces may only come up once in a lifetime. I imagine I’m not the only one which is probably adding to the rising prices in the market. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Xatari

[KingOfRulers]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:01 PM, Xatari said:

Agreed. I feel like I’m ok paying a little above market for OA right now as long as the money is coming from books given some of these pieces may only come up once in a lifetime. I imagine I’m not the only one which is probably adding to the rising prices in the market. 

I'm not okay paying above market for any collectible, anytime. My opinion is that the phrase "paying above market" is synonymous with "paying too much". Why would I want to ever pay too much for anything? 

While these days my objective isn't to flip art for a quick profit, I'd like to have the reasonable expectation that if I had to resell immediately, that I could break even.

There's a bunch of "once in a lifetime" pieces that hit the auction block every couple of months.

[Xatari]

@KingOfRulersI guess it would depend on what you consider once in a lifetime.  I’m talking about pages from the first appearance of major characters. I just don’t see Moon Knight, Shang Chi, Kamala, Miles, Spider-Gwen etc pages coming up every few months. 

[sfilosa]

2 hours ago, KingOfRulers said:

I'm not okay paying above market for any collectible, anytime. My opinion is that the phrase "paying above market" is synonymous with "paying too much". Why would I want to ever pay too much for anything? 

While these days my objective isn't to flip art for a quick profit, I'd like to have the reasonable expectation that if I had to resell immediately, that I could break even.

There's a bunch of "once in a lifetime" pieces that hit the auction block every couple of months.

A collector of original art should be prepared to pay over market for items that they really want. On a one of a kind item, what really is market? 
 

Example, I see a piece someone has in their CAF gallery that I really want. This person does not want to sell the piece. That said, I make an offer higher than what that person believes it would sell for in an auction, and decides to sell to me. Did I pay over market? Unless that person sells the piece, there was no true market value.

Original art is nothing like other collectibles because they are one of a kind. It’s very easy to see if you paid more for a CGC 9.4 book then what it sold for yesterday and  what it sold for tomorrow. Then you can say you overpaid. Not with OA. 

[tth2]

5 hours ago, KingOfRulers said:

I'm not okay paying above market for any collectible, anytime. My opinion is that the phrase "paying above market" is synonymous with "paying too much". Why would I want to ever pay too much for anything? 

While these days my objective isn't to flip art for a quick profit, I'd like to have the reasonable expectation that if I had to resell immediately, that I could break even.

There's a bunch of "once in a lifetime" pieces that hit the auction block every couple of months.

This is great advice if your aim is to build a small, mediocre collection. 

[Jordysnordy]

On 5/26/2021 at 7:39 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

Ankur, those ‘big books’ have increased by multiples, but others examples have increased by even greater multiples.  Many ASM bronze and copper age such as asm 210, 252, 299, annual 16, Hulk 340, Thor 337, and xmen 129 immediately come to mind.

fyi, last year I was purchasing asm 129 cgc 9.8 white pages for $11.5-$12.5K each.

yesterday, clink auctioned the Mass pedigree copy for $55.1K.  Prior to that sale, both clink and HA have sold 9.8’s for $33K.

At these price points, I’d rather buy a decent Bronze Age Spidey cover!

+1 a decent Bronze Age Spidey cover is 1 of 1 and when it's gone, it's likely in a forever home. 

[KingOfRulers]

12 hours ago, sfilosa said:

A collector of original art should be prepared to pay over market for items that they really want. On a one of a kind item, what really is market? 
 

Example, I see a piece someone has in their CAF gallery that I really want. This person does not want to sell the piece. That said, I make an offer higher than what that person believes it would sell for in an auction, and decides to sell to me. Did I pay over market? Unless that person sells the piece, there was no true market value.

Original art is nothing like other collectibles because they are one of a kind. It’s very easy to see if you paid more for a CGC 9.4 book then what it sold for yesterday and  what it sold for tomorrow. Then you can say you overpaid. Not with OA. 

In this scenario, you've established as your premise that there is no market value for the given piece. If there is no market value, than there is no market value to pay more or less than. You can only pay above market value if there is a market value.

In my post, I was talking about paying above market value. Discussing something that has no market value isn't what I referenced.

[KingOfRulers]

9 hours ago, tth2 said:

This is great advice if your aim is to build a small, mediocre collection. 

Or a quality collection that's built with patience, rather than haphazardly throwing money at something.

Of course, if you want to build the grandest collection of them all, money will indeed do that. Just throw more and more money at it. A billionaire throwing $1B into any collectible will find they have a magnificent collection, even if they significantly overpaid for every piece. They're a billionaire, so they still have billions to spare. Most people aren't billionaires or even millionaires though.

I understand the emotionally driven, "needing it now" phenomenon. Tomorrow is never promised, so enjoy as much as you can today. But for me there's a balance between needing it now and patient, disciplined spending. In my opinion, most people let the "needing it now" side of the equation drive their bidding. And not just their bidding on art, but their entire financial life. I suppose that's among the reasons that most Americans are in poor financial health, living in perpetual debt with far less than $10k in savings. 

[hmendryk]

35 minutes ago, KingOfRulers said:

In this scenario, you've established as your premise that there is no market value for the given piece. If there is no market value, than there is no market value to pay more or less than. You can only pay above market value if there is a market value.

In my post, I was talking about paying above market value. Discussing something that has no market value isn't what I referenced.

It seems to me that this is not a case of "no market value". If it sold that is the market value. It may not be "fair market value", that is a price that others would find acceptable. IMO assigning a fair market value for pieces of OA is often no more than an educated guess. People may declare what they think the value of a piece is, but unless they are actually willing to put their money forth what they say has no substantial meaning. The only good indicator of a fair market value of an OA would be the price determined at an auction. Yes shilling may result in higher price reached than without shilling, but it is still an open market.

[sfilosa]

Two quick points,

1) In theory, if you purchase from a major auction house you’ve paid over market. At that moment in time, nobody else in the world wanted to pay more than you.

2) Many successful financial transactions are based on paying over market, at the time. Developers who win bidding for land, are banking on future increases that are not guaranteed. That could be the same for collectibles, you either believe there will be increased demand for the item or a way to maximize its value (resubmit for a CGC book for a higher grade).

 

 

 

[batman_fan]

I bought a certain cover in a private transaction which was 3x the highest price every paid for one of this artist cover.  Today I could sell it for 5x what I paid.

[sfilosa]

5 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

I bought a certain cover in a private transaction which was 3x the highest price every paid for one of this artist cover.  Today I could sell it for 5x what I paid.

Exactly. As a collector, it was clearly a piece you really wanted. It also turned out to be a great investment.

 

[batman_fan]

1 minute ago, sfilosa said:

Exactly. As a collector, it was clearly a piece you really wanted. It also turned out to be a great investment.

 

I looked for the cover for many years and someone finally reached out to me.  For many items you have just one chance at them.  

[stinkininkin]

 

12 hours ago, tth2 said:

This is great advice if your aim is to build a small, mediocre collection. 

I was thinking the same thing. Well said.

Edited May 30, 2021 by stinkininkin

[vodou]

3 hours ago, hmendryk said:

People may declare what they think the value of a piece is, but unless they are actually willing to put their money forth what they say has no substantial meaning.

Pure gold and should be pinned as a banner across every page on this site. Adding it to others would be good too