SHOWCASE #9 What a great deal if I had 12k sitting around

[all4comics]

Hummmmm a CGC VG copy ebay link

[Silver]

Well.... I own pretty much all the SA keys in high grade, but I don't have this one and 12K would be a fair price for it. So yes, if I did have 12k sitting around, I would buy it. For some reason, I've always liked that issue and I already own a VF+ copy of Lois Lane #1, but no Showcase #9

 

[soapbox]

I think that OS is very flawed. You may spend 12k on that book, but VERY few people probably would. at a 9.2 grade, it would certainly fetch a premium over other grades, but what substantiates the high prices for this issue across the board?

 

GPANALYSIS has the lone 9.2 with a recorded sale of 13,225 in March 2003. The next sales are a 7.5 for 1,955 in October 2002 and a pair of 7.0's in the summer of 2003 as well. Those are the high grade issues, the rest of the recorded sales are for 5.0 and below that are more recent sales that range in price from 327 for a 2.0 to a average of 1188 for a 5.0 (6 sales).

 

Those sales mean far more to me than the arbitrary nature of the OS prices. a 2.0 in OS goes for 625, the GPA recorded sale was for 327, guess which price I think more accurately reflects the real value of the book? If you guessed the one that someone actually paid, your right. All across the board, the average GPA prices seem softer than the OS prices, with the exception of the 9.2 copy. That is most likely because it is the highest graded known issue.

 

So what is my point? It's that something is worth only what someone will pay for it. OS is a wonderful reference guide, but a completely out of touch with reality price guide. I think this book does not hold significant historical comic book value, and is horribly overpriced in guide (a statement I wouldn't make about most other surrounding issues of Showcase, as it is a wonderful DC SA title, with a great deal of significance). Who doesn't think that number six, first Challengers of the Unknown by Kirby shouldn't be worth more? Who doesn't think Brave and the Bold 28 with the first JLA appearance shouldn't be worth more? Or even B&B #1 etc.

 

Additionally, along those same lines Jimmy Olsen #1 is only valued 9,000 in 9.2, and is a much tougher book in grade (one in 7.0, one in 6.5 and only 29 certified total versus 48 Showcase 9's) and is a precode book from a highly desirable tough time period.

 

If I get my Lois Lane collection complete, and decide to go after these two issues of Showcase, it would be for certified 5.5 to 7.0 clean copies, priced under guide.

 

[/soapbox]

[all4comics]

Well.... I own pretty much all the SA keys in high grade, but I don't have this one and 12K would be a fair price for it. So yes, if I did have 12k sitting around, I would buy it. For some reason, I've always liked that issue and I already own a VF+ copy of Lois Lane #1, but no Showcase #9

 

[soapbox]

I think that OS is very flawed. You may spend 12k on that book, but VERY few people probably would. at a 9.2 grade, it would certainly fetch a premium over other grades, but what substantiates the high prices for this issue across the board?

 

GPANALYSIS has the lone 9.2 with a recorded sale of 13,225 in March 2003. The next sales are a 7.5 for 1,955 in October 2002 and a pair of 7.0's in the summer of 2003 as well. Those are the high grade issues, the rest of the recorded sales are for 5.0 and below that are more recent sales that range in price from 327 for a 2.0 to a average of 1188 for a 5.0 (6 sales).

 

Those sales mean far more to me than the arbitrary nature of the OS prices. a 2.0 in OS goes for 625, the GPA recorded sale was for 327, guess which price I think more accurately reflects the real value of the book? If you guessed the one that someone actually paid, your right. All across the board, the average GPA prices seem softer than the OS prices, with the exception of the 9.2 copy. That is most likely because it is the highest graded known issue.

 

So what is my point? It's that something is worth only what someone will pay for it. OS is a wonderful reference guide, but a completely out of touch with reality price guide. I think this book does not hold significant historical comic book value, and is horribly overpriced in guide (a statement I wouldn't make about most other surrounding issues of Showcase, as it is a wonderful DC SA title, with a great deal of significance). Who doesn't think that number six, first Challengers of the Unknown by Kirby shouldn't be worth more? Who doesn't think Brave and the Bold 28 with the first JLA appearance shouldn't be worth more? Or even B&B #1 etc.

 

Additionally, along those same lines Jimmy Olsen #1 is only valued 9,000 in 9.2, and is a much tougher book in grade (one in 7.0, one in 6.5 and only 29 certified total versus 48 Showcase 9's) and is a precode book from a highly desirable tough time period.

 

If I get my Lois Lane collection complete, and decide to go after these two issues of Showcase, it would be for certified 5.5 to 7.0 clean copies, priced under guide.

 

[/soapbox]

 

I would agree... More I think and read about it... more I feel it’s NOT a good deal and that its very much over priced compared to those other issues you mentioned.. I guess I use to be more of a person of "money doesn't matter, I just want it" type of person.. I'm not like that anymore. I think I will go after a 7.0 copy instead.

[Aman619]

nowadays, with prices reaching record multiples and levels, I have reached that conclusion often. Back in the day, you could buy all these great comics for high sticjers prices because we all knew ALL comics were pretty cheap, or at least had a lot of room to grow. But, today, just how much would putting 12K into this book bring back at a later day? Will it bring 15K or 20K? I dont think so.

 

Maybe prices will continue to increase forever, so that all books become bargains when we look back, but 12K is some serious comics coin, and not too many books go significantly beyond that. Helll, I can argue this equation from both sides, so maybe its just THIS book that has seen its future already.

 

bur when they announce that Lois Lane movie----? Look out!

[tth2]

Who doesn't think Brave and the Bold 28 with the first JLA appearance shouldn't be worth more?

I agree, the second most important SA DC comic should be worth a LOT more.

 

Seriously, at a minimum it should be worth more than Flash 105, which is, what, the 5th appearance of Flash.

[Silver]

Who doesn't think Brave and the Bold 28 with the first JLA appearance shouldn't be worth more?

I agree, the second most important SA DC comic should be worth a LOT more.

 

Seriously, at a minimum it should be worth more than Flash 105, which is, what, the 5th appearance of Flash.

 

The real point I am making is not the other books should be increased in value, but to point out that the Showcase 9 should be FAR less than Jimmy 1, Showcase 6, B&B 28 etc.

[Aman619]

from all the posts. it seems obvious that the appeal to collectors for Showcase 9 has waned significantly. I tend to agree. But, if it has, that doesnt mean that it did not earn its current Overstreet values over time... So we'll just have to see if Overstreet lowers it values as a result of its current lack of cachet...

[adamstrange]

Who doesn't think Brave and the Bold 28 with the first JLA appearance shouldn't be worth more?

I agree, the second most important SA DC comic should be worth a LOT more.

 

Yes, it should be. But he was talking about B&B 28.

[tth2]

Who doesn't think Brave and the Bold 28 with the first JLA appearance shouldn't be worth more?

I agree, the second most important SA DC comic should be worth a LOT more.

 

Yes, it should be. But he was talking about B&B 28.

[adamstrange]

Who doesn't think Brave and the Bold 28 with the first JLA appearance shouldn't be worth more?

I agree, the second most important SA DC comic should be worth a LOT more.

 

Yes, it should be. But he was talking about B&B 28.

 

Unless of course he was talking about a 9.4 copy and that it would be correct.

[tth2]

Who doesn't think Brave and the Bold 28 with the first JLA appearance shouldn't be worth more?

I agree, the second most important SA DC comic should be worth a LOT more.

 

Yes, it should be. But he was talking about B&B 28.

 

Unless of course he was talking about a 9.4 copy and that it would be correct.

Actually, it occurred to me that you might be thinking Adventure 247 is the second most important SA DC, in which case yes, I think that book should be worth a lot more too, particularly in 9.4.

[JohnBull]

Who doesn't think Brave and the Bold 28 with the first JLA appearance shouldn't be worth more?

I agree, the second most important SA DC comic should be worth a LOT more.

 

Yes, it should be. But he was talking about B&B 28.

 

Unless of course he was talking about a 9.4 copy and that it would be correct.

Actually, it occurred to me that you might be thinking Adventure 247 is the second most important SA DC, in which case yes, I think that book should be worth a lot more too, particularly in 9.4.

 

I've been a Legion fan for decades and that book was a major grail for me until I picked one up some years ago. But...I doubt it's in the top 10 of important SA DC books. It may have been number 1 in value a few years ago, but it star has seriously waned.

 

I never really understand this. Given that the Legion have a huge fan base and guide prices are high, the general lack of interest is quite strange.

 

That said, even though I have sold of most of my SA DC books that were reprinted in the Archives, this particular issue is one of the last things I would ever sell.

[tth2]

I've been a Legion fan for decades and that book was a major grail for me until I picked one up some years ago. But...I doubt it's in the top 10 of important SA DC books. It may have been number 1 in value a few years ago, but it star has seriously waned.

 

I never really understand this. Given that the Legion have a huge fan base and guide prices are high, the general lack of interest is quite strange.

Not sure I agree with you, Gary. In my mind, and admittedly I`m biased, Adventure 247 is a top 5 SA DC book (based on importance, not just value).

 

My Top 5 list:

 

1. Showcase 4

2. B&B 28

3. Showcase 22

4. Adventure 247

5. Flash 105

 

What SA DC is more significant than these 5 books?

 

As for lack of interest, perhaps it just appears that way because the book comes up so rarely? I don`t think there would be a shortage of interested buyers if I ever put my copy up for sale.

[Aman619]

I dunno about that. Im not too keen on 247 either. I definitely think its day has passed too.

[JohnBull]

I've been a Legion fan for decades and that book was a major grail for me until I picked one up some years ago. But...I doubt it's in the top 10 of important SA DC books. It may have been number 1 in value a few years ago, but it star has seriously waned.

 

I never really understand this. Given that the Legion have a huge fan base and guide prices are high, the general lack of interest is quite strange.

Not sure I agree with you, Gary. In my mind, and admittedly I`m biased, Adventure 247 is a top 5 SA DC book (based on importance, not just value).

 

My Top 5 list:

 

1. Showcase 4

2. B&B 28

3. Showcase 22

4. Adventure 247

5. Flash 105

 

What SA DC is more significant than these 5 books?

 

As for lack of interest, perhaps it just appears that way because the book comes up so rarely? I don`t think there would be a shortage of interested buyers if I ever put my copy up for sale.

 

I'm not sure how significance should be assigned. As you said elsewhere, Flash 105 is the characters 5th appearance, so why have that and not JLA 1?

 

The Legion fanbase is avid and active, but maybe it's not too large. The fact that they exist outside of the regular universe (well ok, inside, but 1000 years away) menas they don't have the same day to day character interaction. That combined with the 98 reboots they've had seems to diminish the value. Plus, whereas a book like Showcase 22 introduces GL, Adventure 247 only introduces 3 of the characters. Within a very short time, there must have been 10 or 15 more, so you're only getting a framework with that first issue.

 

I'd think that all the major Showcase first appearances, plus those characters first issues of their own titles, plus the B+B/JLA would all be more important. I think you could even argue that Showcase 8 is more important as it proved that the whole thing wasn't a flash in the pan.

 

So, in no particular order - Showcase 4, 8, 22, B+B 28, JLA 1, GL1, Flash 105 would all be above.

 

I'd put the Adventure in a second division along with Adventure 210, Detective 225, Strange Adventures 9, the first Atom/Hawkman/Aquaman issues. It's probably at the head of that second division, so maybe 8th place on the list, which is admittedly in the top 10.

 

In terms of scarcity (in high grade or low grade) it's very close to the top of the list, if not right at the top.

[tth2]

I'm not sure how significance should be assigned. As you said elsewhere, Flash 105 is the characters 5th appearance, so why have that and not JLA 1?

The main significance of Flash 105 is he was the first of the new SA heroes in his own book. This was a big thing, and showed that a new era was firmly established. By the time JLA 1 and GL 1 came around, there was no longer anything groundbreaking about giving characters their own title. I would actually rank JLA 1 and GL 1 behind first appearances of other major SA characters, such as Showcase 34 and B&B 34.

 

The Legion fanbase is avid and active, but maybe it's not too large. The fact that they exist outside of the regular universe (well ok, inside, but 1000 years away) menas they don't have the same day to day character interaction. That combined with the 98 reboots they've had seems to diminish the value. Plus, whereas a book like Showcase 22 introduces GL, Adventure 247 only introduces 3 of the characters. Within a very short time, there must have been 10 or 15 more, so you're only getting a framework with that first issue.

A first appearance is a first appearance is a first appearance. I don`t think that something has to be fully fleshed out or substantially similar to its later incarnations to constitute an important first appearance.

 

Consider this, the Legion are actually the first successful SA superhero team. Adventure 247 came out in 1958, beating B&B 28 by about 2 years. Sure, Challengers of the Unknown came out even earlier, but they never caught on and no one cares about them. The Legion got their own run in Adventure beginning in 1962 and continued in one title or another for the next 30 years.

 

I'd think that all the major Showcase first appearances, plus those characters first issues of their own titles, plus the B+B/JLA would all be more important. I think you could even argue that Showcase 8 is more important as it proved that the whole thing wasn't a flash in the pan.

For all the reasons above, I`d have to disagree. Showcase 34, B&B 34 and Adventure 260 probably make it into the Top 10, but not Top 5. Atom, Hawkman and Aquaman simply have not had the same sustained success that the Legion have had. None of their titles made it out of the 60s, and there was only mixed success at best with revivals after that. You make a good point about Showcase 8, though, although I would be loathe to put a 2nd appearance in the Top 5 just because of its "confirmatory" effect. Definitely a Top 10 book.

 

I'd put the Adventure in a second division along with Adventure 210, Detective 225, Strange Adventures 9, the first Atom/Hawkman/Aquaman issues.

Adventure 210, Detective 225 and Strange Adventures 9 are technically not SA books. In an alternate universe Strange Adventures 9 might trump Showcase 4 as the true dawn of the SA, but not in our universe. No one cares about Capt Comet, and the fact that he appeared in 1951, which led to absolutely nothing revolutionary happening in 1952, 1953 and 1954, indicates that he was the precursor of... nothing.

[JohnBull]

Adventure 210, Detective 225 and Strange Adventures 9 are technically not SA books. In an alternate universe Strange Adventures 9 might trump Showcase 4 as the true dawn of the SA, but not in our universe. No one cares about Capt Comet, and the fact that he appeared in 1951, which led to absolutely nothing revolutionary happening in 1952, 1953 and 1954, indicates that he was the precursor of... nothing.

 

Some good points there, but interestingly I think your take on Strange Adventures 9 is quite enlightening.

 

The thing is, there are some old timers out there who think that this is a very important book and outside of modern definitions (which certainly weren't the same when I first started collecting) would have this as the dawn of the SA.

 

We would both disagree with this. Equally though, I think that to many collectors, our views on Adventure 247 being a nice book or important in some way will be seen as equally outdated. Times have moved on and honestly, who gives a fig about the Legion these days, apart from (near) middle aged farts like us.

 

I shouldn't worry though. If you really have a nice HG copy, it will undoubtedly generate significant interest one day and make a good figure. My copy is about 5.0, which is the 2nd highest grade I've achieved on a significant SA book and I'm quite proud of it. I'm also an Adventure collector and have most of the issues between 200 and 300, so for no other reason than that, I'm unlikely to sell soon.

[JohnBull]

Flash 123. How could I forget that. To me, this has to be one of the most important SA DC keys. It may have no new characters, but when you think of how entrenched the DCU became for the next 20+ years with the different Earths, this really is a major book. I certainly think this is more important than the Adventure.

[Forbush-Man]

Detective Comics # 255, first Martian Manhunter (11/55) should be in here somewhere. Once upon a time it was in the running, and considered by many, as the start of the DC Silver Age. DC's just don't get the respect they deserve!

[Forbush-Man]

1979 Overstreet Price Guide Top 20 Silver Age titles:

 

1) Fantastic Four

2) Showcase

3) Amazing Spider-Man

4) Flash

5) Brave & Bold

6) Tales to Astonish & The Hulk

7) Journey into Mystery & Thor

8) Jimmy Olsen

9) Lois Lane

10) The Avengers

11) Green Lantern

12) Challengers of the Unknown

13) Tales of Suspense & Iron Man

14) Justice League

15) Strange Tales & Capt. America

16) Richie Rich

17) My Greatest Adventure & Doom Patrol

18) X-Men

19) Conan

20) Daredevil

 

Of course these are for "Titles" and not specific issues. Just shows how much collector interest has changed in the last 36 years.

 

16) Richie Rich ?!?