Exposing FRAUD And DECEPTION - A Must Watch! 18 18

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:12 PM, wombat said:

How many of those other advisors were listed as part of the executive team? 

I don't know.  Websites aren't static.

 

[Bronty]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:57 PM, jaybuck43 said:

1) Sure, it's possible.  I've stated in all of my posts that I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but there is so many red flags I am seeing  that just don't make sense and that keep making things seem off.

2).Because 13% is less than 29% and leaves more profit potential on the bone.  I buy Ms. Pac-Man 9.6 A++ for market price of $450.  I list it on eBay for $2,500. I  have  @Buzzetta buy it for $1200.  I pay eBay $160.  I give Buzz back his $1,200.  I'm now -$610.  But there is a market point out there that says the game is $1,200 (if visible, some may see it as selling for $2,500).  I then slap a price tag on  it  for $1,000 and take it to a convention.  Someone goes "ooo look, I can get it under the last price, awesome! Cash/Visa handed over.  Profit = $390.  Even better if I bought a box of sealed Ms. Pac-man and could rinse and repeat, since now I have TWO data points at 50% over market.  Which will then cause more buyers to enter at that price point.  

I 100% recognize the fishers.  Heck, that's Gator's MO.  He buys a book, tags it at a percent over what he paid he's happy to sell for.  Almost always, that book is WAY over market price.  And then Rick just sits back and waits for the market to catch up to him.  And eventually it does.  Heck, a lot of times when we hang out at NYCC, I stand there with  him updating prices because some of his numbers are actually under market because he slapped a price tag on it when he bought it and no-one bought it but the market has raised higher.  So, again, not denying it happens, BUT the problem I am saying is, the market prices are lower than his BINs.  I'm supposed to believe that he is constantly catching all these "impulse" buyers who are willing to pay double market price just because they want it NOW, even though the particular game will pop up on Heritage or a convention, or even eBay next week.  I can understand the sit back and wait if these were rare items.  Again, that's what Rick is  doing.  Slapping market high prices on GA books that are rare and waiting for the market to catch up.  But he's grinding out NM 98 at market price.  Haspel is fishing with commons, which makes no sense.

Your reply to 2) is fanciful to say the least.   In your scenario, these buyers have no access to HA comps?   And what are these non existent shows you speak of?    They’ve basically been cancelled for a year and a half after all. 
 

You haven’t addressed my basic questions.   Why on earth would someone that was going to play at creating fake data points do so on eBay where the records disappear?    Remember there is NO GPA FOR GAMES.   HA comps fill that role so anyone wanting the market to notice a comp would want it on HA not ebay.  
 

Why on earth would someone that was going to play at creating fake data points play around with items so common that a single data point is worthless?

Is Russia involved? 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Bronty

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:20 PM, wombat said:

CGC should hire all of their graders through a third party and then let them submit and sell books. 

After all the years you've been here and all the things you've seen in this hobby......what makes you think they don't? 

 

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:17 PM, jaybuck43 said:

 are.  He's STILL listed as part of the executive team.

Their website also says "WE. GRADE. EVERYTHING."

Try submitting a PS3 game and let me know how that goes. 

[Bronty]

400k with 15 days left.      

[jaybuck43]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:26 PM, Bronty said:

Your reply to 2) is fanciful to say the least.   In your scenario, these buyers have no access to HA comps?   And what are these non existent shows you speak of?    They’ve basically been cancelled for a year and a half after all. 
 

You haven’t addressed my basic questions.   Why on earth would someone that was going to play at creating fake data points do so on eBay where the records disappear?    Remember there is NO GPA FOR GAMES.   HA comps fill that role so anyone wanting the market to notice a comp would want it on HA not ebay.  
 

Why on earth would someone that was going to play at creating fake data points play around with items so common that a single data point is worthless?

Is Russia involved? 

Dan, you're in Canada so maybe there haven't been any conventions since March 2020. But in the States, it's been the Wild West for the longest time.  There are plenty of conventions going on where video games are being sold.  Heck there's one coming up in 4 weeks called NYCC.  Garden State Comic Con happened a few months ago.  Tons of smaller conventions around the area.  CGC itself is traveling to Indianapolis in a week or two for Gen Con.  Do I need to keep listing more conventions?

I never said that the  buyers have no access to HA comps.  But, just like everyone I know does when buying comics, you check multiple data points.  Sure the buyers are checking HA to see what you're getting there, but then check eBay as well to see where things are going.  

 

[Bronty]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:44 PM, jaybuck43 said:

Dan, you're in Canada so maybe there haven't been any conventions since March 2020. But in the States, it's been the Wild West for the longest time.  There are plenty of conventions going on where video games are being sold.  Heck there's one coming up in 4 weeks called NYCC.  Garden State Comic Con happened a few months ago.  Tons of smaller conventions around the area.  CGC itself is traveling to Indianapolis in a week or two for Gen Con.  Do I need to keep listing more conventions?

I never said that the  buyers have no access to HA comps.  But, just like everyone I know does when buying comics, you check multiple data points.  Sure the buyers are checking HA to see what you're getting there, but then check eBay as well to see where things are going.  

 

I saw a ton of show cancellation notices iver the course of the past year and a half.   Maybe they are starting to come back now, yes, and it’s definitely looser in the US, but you were discussing older sales after all.   
 

Again Jay.    Are you hearing me?   There is no gpa.   Ebay data points all but disappear.    What use would an eBay data point be unless it’s within the two weeks or whatever that eBay leaves it up.   THERE IS NO GPA AND THUS ESSENTIALLY NO RECORD OF EBAY SALES.   THEY ARE ALL BUT USELESS AS DATA POINTS IN THIS MARKET.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Bronty

[Bronty]

And you still haven’t addressed my basic questions Jay.

[Domo Arigato]

From the current Goldin Auction with 15 days left to go:

 

Wata 9.8 A++ copy currently at $280,000

 

Same game in VGA 95 currently at $85,000 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[Bronty]

I hope the 95 catches up a bit.    The owner is a great guy and hoping for a good result.   I just don’t think it’s going to compare to what the 9.8 sells for, and I don’t see either one repeating the 1.5 sale, at all. 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Bronty

[Sweet Lou 14]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:26 PM, Bronty said:

Remember there is NO GPA FOR GAMES.

Not to derail the current debate -- frankly, I'm kind of losing the thread here anyway -- but one of the first topics discussed after the video broke was the lack of census data and the fact that unequal access to that information could open the door to market manipulation by those in the know.  Compound that with the lack of sales data (however incomplete) that a GPA or GoCollect provides to the comics community, and the problem is potentially even worse.  To me this seems like a big deal, but I was struck by how casually it was dismissed early in this discussion.

[Bronty]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:05 PM, Sweet Lou 14 said:

Not to derail the current debate -- frankly, I'm kind of losing the thread here anyway -- but one of the first topics discussed after the video broke was the lack of census data and the fact that unequal access to that information could open the door to market manipulation by those in the know.  Compound that with the lack of sales data (however incomplete) that a GPA or GoCollect provides to the comics community, and the problem is potentially even worse.  To me this seems like a big deal, but I was struck by how casually it was dismissed early in this discussion.

I think everyone has lost the thread, myself included, so don’t worry, you’re in good company on that front .

As for census data, I guess in comics it’s always been available, in games it’s never been easily accessible.    You had to email Marci at vga, and she’d only let you ask about three titles a day, and she’s forget so you have to email her about it again the next day.    So, it was never easy to get.   

However, I don’t know anyone spending big money that hasn’t simply reached out to people with questions first.    Clearly, there’s been a few people that either haven’t done that or haven’t listened to advice (see early Atari sales), but there were so many of us publicly warning about quantities in that segment that anyone that didn’t pay attention, I can’t feel sorry for.    That being said, for the most part, the new guys spending big money have had hobby mentors and it’s been clear from context that they’ve asked questions when they haven’t  known something.      You don’t need to have collected for a long time, you just need to know someone you can trust that has.

 

A few exceptions aside, the market has moved in exactly the way you’d expect the last few years.   Iconic/ relevant stuff at a premium.

Edited September 3, 2021 by Bronty

[Domo Arigato]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:00 PM, Bronty said:

I hope the 95 catches up a bit.    The owner is a great guy and hoping for a good result.   I just don’t think it’s going to compare to what the 9.8 sells for, and I don’t see either one repeating the 1.5 sale, at all. 

Absolutely.....and that would only be good for the overall strength of the market as a whole. 

If I was him, I would be ticked that the WATA game is the "first" lot in the video game section and at the top of page one......while his VGA copy is lot #81 and back on page 3 when just looking at the game auctions.

And agreed......the $1.5m sale seems like a fluke.  I don't look for a repeat of that kind of result again with either of them.

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Domo Arigato

[Bronty]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:15 PM, Domo Arigato said:

Absolutely.....and that would only be good for the overall strength of the market as a whole. 

If I was him, I would be ticked that the WATA game is the "first" lot in the video game section and at the top of page one......while his VGA copy is lot #81 and back on page 3 when just looking at the game auctions.

 

Yep.   He wasn’t thrilled about that.

[jaybuck43]

On 9/2/2021 at 10:50 PM, Bronty said:

I saw a ton of show cancellation notices iver the course of the past year and a half.   Maybe they are starting to come back now, yes, and it’s definitely looser in the US, but you were discussing older sales after all.   
 

Again Jay.    Are you hearing me?   There is no gpa.   Ebay data points all but disappear.    What use would an eBay data point be unless it’s within the two weeks or whatever that eBay leaves it up.   THERE IS NO GPA AND THUS ESSENTIALLY NO RECORD OF EBAY SALES.   THEY ARE ALL BUT USELESS AS DATA POINTS IN THIS MARKET.

eBay leaves them up for months, not two weeks.  Searching completed sales of Super Mario Brothers brings up results back to May 16th 2021 for instance.  Those data points are useful a month later when you're at Garden State Comic Con.  Heck, most of them will still be useful a month from now at NYCC.  I'm aware there is no GPA.  But there's also no GPA for raw comics, for CBCS, for sales of books at ComicLink, for sales at Comic Connect etc.  GPA for instance basically only looks at sales for CGC graded sales on eBay and Heritage. Yet people still check eBay to get ideas for recent sales.  I mean, for example, HA hasn't sold TMNT 1 (the Ultra game) in 6.5 since May 2020.  At the time it sold for $960.  But eBay had two recent sales in 6.5 in the $200s.  So obviously the market decreased on that game in the 16 or so months that have passed since the last data point.  

 

[Charleybrown]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:16 PM, Bronty said:

Yep.   He wasn’t thrilled about that.

He’s not thrilled with a 5000% return?? He was looking for a 50,000% return

It’s his fault for not crossing over. Wata might be unscrupulous but the results speak for themselves.

[Bronty]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:22 PM, jaybuck43 said:

eBay leaves them up for months, not two weeks.  Searching completed sales of Super Mario Brothers brings up results back to May 16th 2021 for instance.  Those data points are useful a month later when you're at Garden State Comic Con.  Heck, most of them will still be useful a month from now at NYCC.  I'm aware there is no GPA.  But there's also no GPA for raw comics, for CBCS, for sales of books at ComicLink, for sales at Comic Connect etc.  GPA for instance basically only looks at sales for CGC graded sales on eBay and Heritage. Yet people still check eBay to get ideas for recent sales.  I mean, for example, HA hasn't sold TMNT 1 (the Ultra game) in 6.5 since May 2020.  At the time it sold for $960.  But eBay had two recent sales in 6.5 in the $200s.  So obviously the market decreased on that game in the 16 or so months that have passed since the last data point.  

 

I’ll have to look into that part about ebay because if it’s months now, that’s news to me.  
 

I find it doubtful re your point on tmnt 6.5s because overall the market on that game has been doing well.    I think it’s likely that the first data point was sealed and the later data point CIB.    Do you have more info? 

[Bronty]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:25 PM, Charleybrown said:

He’s not thrilled with a 5000% return?? He was looking for a 50,000% return

It’s his fault for not crossing over. Wata might be unscrupulous but the results speak for themselves.

That’s sort of the point right?   Anybody holding anything good has seen the value skyrocket.    And we’re talking about sub 1k Atari games.    I feel like Iverson talkin’ about Practice.   Practice, man.   Practice. 

[jaybuck43]

On 9/2/2021 at 11:27 PM, Bronty said:

I’ll have to look into that part about ebay because if it’s months now, that’s news to me.  
 

I find it doubtful re your point on tmnt 6.5s because overall the market on that game has been doing well.    I think it’s likely that the first data point was sealed and the later data point CIB.    Do you have more info? 

Yes, I believe you're correct.  The lower values are CIB and the May 2020 was a B+ seal. I just picked something at random, wasn't necessarily trying to find something lower or higher, just grabbed something simple.   However, the eBay being months has existed for as far as I know.  Again, could be a difference between eBay.com and eBay.ca.  

[skypinkblu]

This has nothing to do with the topic, but I was glad to see Andrew, Roger and Jason posting, because I hope that means you are all OK. I know there are a lot more boarders in the Metro area. Hope everyone is safe.