But was there even a staple to begin with?! 0

[candygramformongo]

30 years ago I bought a 1960s book that was already a key at that time but has grown in value exponentially since.  So a year or two ago I start thinking about kids college accounts and decided maybe it was time to sell it.  So I submit to CGC and it comes back mid-grade right about where I expected - wonderful - BUT with a green label!  Argh!  Checking the label I see the notation "BOTTOM STAPLE REPLACED".  Well stupid stupid me I never looked closely enough at the book and now I see that there is clearly a NON-original staple that was put into the book (staple is like 1/2 inch off the spine and is a golden color).  HOWEVER, looking very closely I can't see where the original staple ever went into it!  Then I start reading that there are a fair number of this title that were produced without a staple in the 60s.

The grader's notes for my book say:  staple replaced bottom of spine

So what is my best option if I want to go ahead and sell it?  From recent sales I see that the qualified grade reducing the price by 50%+   So I am trying to figure out the best gameplan:

Is there a way I'm missing to try to see (with book in the case) if it's a manufacturer's defect and no staple was there to begin with?  Or do I could crack open the case to get a closer look and see if there really was a missing staple or if there was never a staple?  If never had a staple do I have an expert remove this non-original staple and re-submit it with the hope that I get a blue label?  If there was a staple do I then have an expert replace it with a vintage staple?  If I do that and re-submit I think I'm still in green label land, right?  So at that point is it better to just try to sell it as a raw book (disclosing, of course, that the staple was replaced)?  It kind of feels like a raw book does better than a qualified book in that situation?

Would really really really appreciate any insight anyone has!  THANK YOU!!!!

[Fisionbomb]

If there was never a staple to begin with, sorry to say I don't think you'll ever get a blue label. You're getting qualified staple replaced as is, or qualified staple removed if you take it out. And if you replace it with a "vintage" staple, I'd hope the experts would move it into restored territory.

[Vixom]

On 10/16/2021 at 7:52 PM, candygramformongo said:

If never had a staple do I have an expert remove this non-original staple and re-submit it with the hope that I get a blue label?  If there was a staple do I then have an expert replace it with a vintage staple?  If I do that and re-submit I think I'm still in green label land, right? 

I feel if I answer this question truthfully it would trigger a lot of people and I would never be able to sell a book on the forum. So to avoid this I will not answer your questions. 

However I do have some questions for you. Does it take a expert to bend a staple and pull it out of the original hole? Could some practice enough to put another stable through the same hole and fold it into place so it looks just like it just came back from the printer in 1963 or whatever? Does cgc have those things from minority report or chronicles of Riddick?

I apologize for not being able to answer your questions.

[KCOComics]

 

First off, I'm sorry this happened. There is nothing worse than a "label surprise" especially when it's something you could have caught. I've been there! 

If the book was manufactured without a staple,  I would imagine you could have the added staple removed and get a blue label with the note "manufactured with one staple"  I could be wrong and it might be best to call cgc and ask directly. 

If you remove the staple and replace it with an original era staple from a less expensive book,  I believe it would get a Conserved label. I know people replace rusty staples with original era staples in an effort to "conserve" the book. 

@The Lions Den any thoughts? Am I on right track? 

 

[The Lions Den]

On 10/17/2021 at 3:10 AM, KCOComics said:

 

First off, I'm sorry this happened. There is nothing worse than a "label surprise" especially when it's something you could have caught. I've been there! 

If the book was manufactured without a staple,  I would imagine you could have the added staple removed and get a blue label with the note "manufactured with one staple"  I could be wrong and it might be best to call cgc and ask directly. 

If you remove the staple and replace it with an original era staple from a less expensive book,  I believe it would get a Conserved label. I know people replace rusty staples with original era staples in an effort to "conserve" the book. 

@The Lions Den any thoughts? Am I on right track? 

 

Ah yes, random thoughts, I have a few...  

1)  Sell the book as is. At least potential buyers will know exactly what they're getting. 

2)  If you can't tell whether the book was manufactured with only one staple, look it over again---it should be pretty easy to tell. However, the "staple replaced" notation would lead me to believe that the original staple was actually replaced for a reason, usually some type of defect.

3) If you remove the staple and replace it with a vintage staple, you do run the risk of ending up with a Conserved label (or possibly even a green label again!)  

4) If you remove the staple and don't replace it with anything, you have a better chance of ending up with a blue label, even though the holes left by the missing staple may affect the overall grade. 

5) Bear in mind that sending the book back to CGC may not solve your problem---it could even complicate the situation.

I hope this helps, and good luck!  

[KCOComics]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:15 AM, The Lions Den said:

Ah yes, random thoughts, I have a few...  

1)  Sell the book as is. At least potential buyers will know exactly what they're getting. 

4) If you remove the staple and don't replace it with anything, you have a better chance of ending up with a blue label, even though the holes left by the missing staple may affect the overall grade. 

These are the two options I would strongly consider. 

And keep in mind there is a good chance the staple was added for a reason. So if you remove it, it could cause other problems. The centerfold could fall out for example.  So you may get a blue label, but the grade may be reduced dramatically. 

You should be able to determine the risk by opening up the slab and having a close look.  And if that's not something you want to do, I'm all for Option 1. Leave it be and sell it as is.  At least the buyer will know exactly what's going on with the book. 

Good luck! 

[KCOComics]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:15 AM, The Lions Den said:

Ah yes, random thoughts, I have a few...  

1)  Sell the book as is. At least potential buyers will know exactly what they're getting. 

2)  If you can't tell whether the book was manufactured with only one staple, look it over again---it should be pretty easy to tell. However, the "staple replaced" notation would lead me to believe that the original staple was actually replaced for a reason, usually some type of defect.

3) If you remove the staple and replace it with a vintage staple, you do run the risk of ending up with a Conserved label (or possibly even a green label again!)  

4) If you remove the staple and don't replace it with anything, you have a better chance of ending up with a blue label, even though the holes left by the missing staple may affect the overall grade. 

5) Bear in mind that sending the book back to CGC may not solve your problem---it could even complicate the situation.

I hope this helps, and good luck!  

PS - nice Queen drop. I always pick up on your embedded classic rock quotes but usually don't call it out lol. 

[The Lions Den]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:40 AM, KCOComics said:

PS - nice Queen drop. I always pick up on your embedded classic rock quotes but usually don't call it out lol. 

And bad mistakes? I've made a few...   

[Qalyar]

Just by way of clarification: does this book have 1 factory staple plus one added one, or is the interloper the only staple at all?

Regardless, I'm with a lot of others; I don't think there's a good path to a blue label here. Personally, I'd probably leave the book slabbed and sell it as it stands; weird situations like this are tough sells on raw books, because buyers rightly wonder whether any other funny business is going undisclosed or undetected.

[William-James88]

Hey Candy Mofongo, what is the grade of your book right now from CGC and which book is it? That would help give the best advice.

[candygramformongo]

On 10/17/2021 at 1:08 PM, Qalyar said:

Just by way of clarification: does this book have 1 factory staple plus one added one, or is the interloper the only staple at all?

Regardless, I'm with a lot of others; I don't think there's a good path to a blue label here. Personally, I'd probably leave the book slabbed and sell it as it stands; weird situations like this are tough sells on raw books, because buyers rightly wonder whether any other funny business is going undisclosed or undetected.

Thanks so much for the input.  It definitely has one factory staple that looks perfectly fine.  I would have thought the additional staple was added because the cover was loose or something like that BUT when I'm looking at it (albeit through the slab) I can't see where there was another staple.  No holes, no little "space" where it looks like it went.  But I think there's a solid chance I'm wrong about that.  I also wouldn't be shocked if this staple was added by someone who knew nothing about collecting comics and, rather, was a kid with a missing staple on his book or something like that.

[candygramformongo]

On 10/17/2021 at 4:53 PM, William-James88 said:

Hey Candy Mofongo, what is the grade of your book right now from CGC and which book is it? That would help give the best advice.

I appreciate it but I'm reluctant to say...maybe that's silly but I'm just nervous about providing too much info on it.  Let's say it's a Fantastic Four 52 and it was graded 5.0.  It's a similar title to FF, similar timeframe, and similar "key-ness" of the book.

[candygramformongo]

On 10/17/2021 at 3:10 AM, KCOComics said:

 

First off, I'm sorry this happened. There is nothing worse than a "label surprise" especially when it's something you could have caught. I've been there! 

If the book was manufactured without a staple,  I would imagine you could have the added staple removed and get a blue label with the note "manufactured with one staple"  I could be wrong and it might be best to call cgc and ask directly. 

If you remove the staple and replace it with an original era staple from a less expensive book,  I believe it would get a Conserved label. I know people replace rusty staples with original era staples in an effort to "conserve" the book. 

@The Lions Den any thoughts? Am I on right track? 

 

Thanks so much for saying that, @KCOComics - I know it sounds silly but I really appreciate it.  And I know it's a great problem to have but you're right it just took the wind out of my sails to get the "surprise" label...and then on top of that to realize it's something I 100% could and SHOULD have caught.  Though I take some solace that my situation wouldn't have been ALL that different if I'd caught it up front.

 

Yeah, that was my thought that if it was manufactured without a staple then it could still be blue-labeled.  I have no familiarity with the Conserved label and/or pricing, would love anyone to weigh in on that.  I'm not sure it would be worth the risk to me of cracking it open, sending it off to someone (eek!!), hoping they do a good enough job (double eek!) and then sending it back knowing that 1) I might get green label again anyway; or  2) might get a Conserved label and the market value is only 5% more than it would have been with the green label (I'm making that up, I have NO idea what that number would be, I'd love any insight anyone has on it).

 

Also, for what it's worth, if the price difference for blue vs. green was 5-10% I wouldn't even bother with this.  But it seems like it's more like 25-50% difference.  I guess that's my other lingering question - is THIS particular reason for a green label (replaced staple) "better" than others like a missing page, etc.  If so, am I overreacting to think it's going to ding the price so much because I'm comparing it to books that are green label with a missing page or cut out MVS stamp, etc.?  Thank you again so very much for your input!

[candygramformongo]

On 10/17/2021 at 10:15 AM, The Lions Den said:

Ah yes, random thoughts, I have a few...  

1)  Sell the book as is. At least potential buyers will know exactly what they're getting. 

2)  If you can't tell whether the book was manufactured with only one staple, look it over again---it should be pretty easy to tell. However, the "staple replaced" notation would lead me to believe that the original staple was actually replaced for a reason, usually some type of defect.

3) If you remove the staple and replace it with a vintage staple, you do run the risk of ending up with a Conserved label (or possibly even a green label again!)  

4) If you remove the staple and don't replace it with anything, you have a better chance of ending up with a blue label, even though the holes left by the missing staple may affect the overall grade. 

5) Bear in mind that sending the book back to CGC may not solve your problem---it could even complicate the situation.

I hope this helps, and good luck!  

 

I want you to know I wrote a long response to this post @The Lions Den and then I paused because I was trying to figure out where I could work a solid Queen reference into it...and then I got distracted and then closed the window and then lost the whole f#$@$ thing.  Are you hanging on the edge of your seat?

When you say sell as-is I think you mean as-is in the slab, right?  Or you mean take it out and sell "as is", disclosing the staple situation, obviously.  Perhaps I'm wrong but it sure seems like if the price of key book is $x then the green-label price of that book is 50% of $x BUT that sometimes the raw, graded-by-eye version of that same book is more like 80% of $x.  But, again, I could be totally off - no escape from reality! 

[KCOComics]

On 10/19/2021 at 4:37 PM, candygramformongo said:

 

I want you to know I wrote a long response to this post @The Lions Den and then I paused because I was trying to figure out where I could work a solid Queen reference into it...and then I got distracted and then closed the window and then lost the whole f#$@$ thing.  Are you hanging on the edge of your seat?

When you say sell as-is I think you mean as-is in the slab, right?  Or you mean take it out and sell "as is", disclosing the staple situation, obviously.  Perhaps I'm wrong but it sure seems like if the price of key book is $x then the green-label price of that book is 50% of $x BUT that sometimes the raw, graded-by-eye version of that same book is more like 80% of $x.  But, again, I could be totally off - no escape from reality! 

He does mean sell it as is in the slab. 

Your math is likely directionally correct, but you would think disclosing the post production staple on a raw book would dramatically impact the value. 

For example, a restored raw book would sell for less than a restored purple label, all things being equal. 

The greatest benefit of CGC is transparency. You have an expert look over the book and identify restoration, missing coupons or any other problems.  Since you paid for that transparency, the best course of action is to keep it slabbed so the buyer knows exactly what they are getting.

Unless of course you want to remove the post production staple. That's a different matter. 

[William-James88]

On 10/19/2021 at 3:02 PM, candygramformongo said:

I appreciate it but I'm reluctant to say...maybe that's silly but I'm just nervous about providing too much info on it.  Let's say it's a Fantastic Four 52 and it was graded 5.0.  It's a similar title to FF, similar timeframe, and similar "key-ness" of the book.

Alright sounds good. But yeah, knowing the value of the book is important. Because the blue label version may be worth it or not. In that case, yes a blue version would be worth it. A "removed staple" on an otherwise good looking book would get you around 4.0. That is only 1 full grade point lower than the green label version. And since a green label version gets you 50% less than that means the 4.0 blue version would be worth more. At least in the case of the FF 52.

So in that case, then yes, to maximise the value of the book you have (regardless if you want to sell it), then it would be a good option to crack the case, carefully remove the bottom staple and then submit the book again. 

And yeah, I get not wanting people to know too much. I too was reluctant in people knowing that I had a 6.0 Action comics 1, but I eventually got over it.

[The Lions Den]

On 10/19/2021 at 4:37 PM, candygramformongo said:

 

I want you to know I wrote a long response to this post @The Lions Den and then I paused because I was trying to figure out where I could work a solid Queen reference into it...and then I got distracted and then closed the window and then lost the whole f#$@$ thing.  Are you hanging on the edge of your seat?

When you say sell as-is I think you mean as-is in the slab, right?  Or you mean take it out and sell "as is", disclosing the staple situation, obviously.  Perhaps I'm wrong but it sure seems like if the price of key book is $x then the green-label price of that book is 50% of $x BUT that sometimes the raw, graded-by-eye version of that same book is more like 80% of $x.  But, again, I could be totally off - no escape from reality! 

I'm saying you have options...and options are a good thing. What you end up doing is your business...   

[LowGradeBronze]

And since the book came to you like that in the first place you haven't really lost anything, plus you can't blame yourself since you didn't add the rogue staple. I have a Millie the Model 154 in gorgeous condition but guess what? Only one staple. Its not keeping me awake at night.