EsquireComics Willing To Provide The Same Guaranty Offered By CGC

[esquirecomics]

 

This is where insurance comes in handy.

 

Additionally, CGC could, for example, easily include a disclaimer/exception that where a submitter intentionally tries to deceive them with submissions of restored books, then the guarantee is waived if they don't catch the new twist of restoration. The burden would be on CGC to demonstrate what took place which clearly can be done as the Ewert scandal reveals when a pattern exists.

 

In any event the bottom line is why should sellers bail out CGC for its negligence?

 

--------------------

 

1)I love the idea of insurance but the pricing would prove prohibitive.

 

Actually, I am not sure it would be. I have my comics insured, both under a collector and a dealer's policy, and the policies are relevatively inexpensive. Yet they cover full loss and require very little documentation or proof.

 

2)Is it your thought that CGC is dishonest or just negligent?

 

I know of no evidence that CGC was being dishonest, and I don't think we know enough yet to gauge the degree of negligence. From what I can surmise thus far, I think it is clear CGC should have known something was suspect with Ewert's books.

 

3)Are you saying that the missed EWERT trimming was "a new twist" which won't be covered by insurance or negligence by CGC which will?

 

If I understand your point, I don't believe we have enough information yet to determine this.

 

4)You probably will need a tribunal to review each and every book in question.

 

Maybe, maybe not.

 

My view is that the buyers risk is with the "new tricks" of restoration. My guess is that negligence is not much of a problem.

 

Sellers are not bailing out CGC. It's a phony. They hope by putting up a strong front they are telling the buyers the missed restoration problem isn't a big deal. Hey, they're putting their own money on the line. Right? The truth is that the guarentee only works if a few books are involved. If a large amount of restoration was missed two events will occur:

1)CGC will revise it's policy and no longer call trimming a restoration if a minimal amount is cut. No claims will be paid. The books will remain in blue labels.

2)If the claims are too large the dealers will fold their hand and walk away. They will carefully balance the cost of the payment versus their future prospects.

 

In addition: I suspect that CGC will reimburse dealers for the books they bought back. That's just speculation on my part.

 

These are all valid observations and worthy of consideration.

[esquirecomics]

When selling or buying a car,people use CARFAX,a service that conducts data-base searches to determine the cars true history.

If Carfax misses an important item,they buy the car off the original buyer. Although they never owned the car,they,as the certification company,stand by their service.they screw up,they pay for it.

That is what I would like CGC to start to do.

 

Very astute post. I agree.

[action1kid]

Does cgc have the resources to handle that type of guarentee.?

[shadroch]

CGC has the resources to buy insurance for this.Should they do their job and have few claims,the insurance premiums will be cheap.

[Aman619]

I like Marks new stance. Very well thought out and a bold move. Why SHOULD dealers guarantee when CGC makies a mistake? Sure its to calm the marketplace, but the responsibility and onus belongs all the way back to CGC door.

[shadroch]

Or drop their free resto check,which was never the service they stressed anyway.

[trevorlsmith]

I like Marks new stance. Very well thought out and a bold move. Why SHOULD dealers guarantee when CGC makies a mistake? Sure its to calm the marketplace, but the responsibility and onus belongs all the way back to CGC door.

 

It's a mixed bag. On the one hand, I want all dealers to guarantee what they sell, professionally graded or not. On the other, cgc should stand up for their product/service. I'm not sure yet whether dealers standing up and guarantying the cgc product make it more or less likely that cgc will follow with an official statement of guaranty.

 

Ideally, both dealers and cgc should provide a guaranty, whereby a buyer's first point of contact is the dealer they purchased the restored blue from, its second is cgc. If a dealer provides a refund, cgc is indemnified and makes the dealer whole, unless cgc finds that the dealer was perpetrating a fraud.

[trevorlsmith]

Or drop their free resto check,which was never the service they stressed anyway.

 

Is this tongue-in-cheek?

[esquirecomics]

Or drop their free resto check,which was never the service they stressed anyway.

 

Is this tongue-in-cheek?

 

Actually, there is some potential here. Why not have CGC drop its "free" restoration detection and instead assess a modest supplemental fee (say $10) for anyone who wishes to avail themselves of the service. This will provide CGC with additional cashflow to permit an actual guarantee for their services. Whether a restoration check has been undertaken or not can then be indicated on the label.

 

Of course, I can identify numerous problems with this idea also.

[trevorlsmith]

Of course, I can identify numerous problems with this idea also.

 

There is not enough time in the day to described all the problems that this would present. But, just to start, would a grader under this service ignore obvious resto and just assign a grade?

[esquirecomics]

Of course, I can identify numerous problems with this idea also.

 

There is not enough time in the day to described all the problems that this would present. But, just to start, would a grader under this service ignore obvious resto and just assign a grade?

 

No ethical obligation that would require otherwise.

 

Perhaps there could be a two tier approach. Paying for a graded slab gets you the basic restoration check so that obvious work is detected. For a more detailed, exhaustive check, a supplemental fee must be paid. Sort of like going to the gas station and either buying a deluxe car wash for $6 or the super deluxe with wax for $8.

 

[trevorlsmith]

October 18, 2006: Due to extraordinary pressure from the forum police, and under the threat of litigation, cgc has reluctantly admitted that a certain well-known dealer has been submitting large quantities of high-grade silver age books with the instruction that any book found with restoration be subsequently submitted to tier II for slabbing upon Marc Friesen's determination that restoration removal would be impossible. All tier II books were then to be returned to various locations throughout the United States, where they were immediately placed on eBay with no mention of restoration, and specific a term that read, "all sales are final due to 3rd party grading." Steve Borock, President of CGC was heard to comment, "I had no idea these books were being passed off as restoration free. I had dinner with 'certain well-known dealer.' Our kids are on the same little league team together. He was my friend."

 

BTW, no offense intented, I'm only KIDDING. Idle minds are the busy person's annoyance.

[Red Hook]

Or drop their free resto check,which was never the service they stressed anyway.

 

So you would be paying anywhere from $29 up, per book, just to have your book put in a pretty holder and get a grading opinion on it? Hey, then use PGX...faster and cheaper and no worse for grading. I don't think so. I've never heard anyone give that as the main reason for going to all the trouble of having their books certified.

 

I have heard over and over in the last couple years, people saying the best thing about CGC is the restoration check....that's the most valuable part of the package. What was the big slam on PGX? That they were weak on restoration.

 

I think CGC DID stress the restoration check, and CONTINUES to stress it. Not in so many words, but remove it from certification and submissions of gold and silver will drop like a stone.

 

They'll never drop the resto check.

[drbanner]

Or drop their free resto check,which was never the service they stressed anyway.

 

So you would be paying anywhere from $29 up, per book, just to have your book put in a pretty holder and get a grading opinion on it? Hey, then use PGX...faster and cheaper and no worse for grading. I don't think so. I've never heard anyone give that as the main reason for going to all the trouble of having their books certified.

 

I have heard over and over in the last couple years, people saying the best thing about CGC is the restoration check....that's the most valuable part of the package. What was the big slam on PGX? That they were weak on restoration.

 

I think CGC DID stress the restoration check, and CONTINUES to stress it. Not in so many words, but remove it from certification and submissions of gold and silver will drop like a stone.

 

They'll never drop the resto check.

 

Yeah, I'm sure slabbed books without a restoration check would be gobbled up like hotcakes!

[Timulty]

The resources required to build a carfax like system are significantly cheaper than one would suspect. A server with significant storage space. A database system with web interface. And bandwidth. Not a lot of work nor money. Plus they could charge for it. I mean, carfax is not free, is it?

 

Oh yeah, added an edit.

 

They would have to hire the appropriate IT personel(1 or 2 people, if they don't have them already) to do this.

 

I do this sort of work for a living so, I know exactly what is needed.

[esquirecomics]

Or drop their free resto check,which was never the service they stressed anyway.

 

So you would be paying anywhere from $29 up, per book, just to have your book put in a pretty holder and get a grading opinion on it? Hey, then use PGX...faster and cheaper and no worse for grading. I don't think so. I've never heard anyone give that as the main reason for going to all the trouble of having their books certified.

 

I have heard over and over in the last couple years, people saying the best thing about CGC is the restoration check....that's the most valuable part of the package. What was the big slam on PGX? That they were weak on restoration.

 

I think CGC DID stress the restoration check, and CONTINUES to stress it. Not in so many words, but remove it from certification and submissions of gold and silver will drop like a stone.

 

They'll never drop the resto check.

 

Agreed, that is certainly how CGC wants itself to be perceived. Too bad it won't back up its own strengths in anything other than rhetoric. This should be the most significant aspect of CGC's services.

[Silver Surfer]

What's this drop the resto talk? Why doesn't CGC just stand behind their work and do the job properly. Why do people keep making excuses for their poor business practices?

[The Black Hand ®]

What's this drop the resto talk? Why doesn't CGC just stand behind their work and do the job properly. Why do people keep making excuses for their poor business practices?

 

It has a lot to do with the fact that no one is accountable any more for anything. Look at all the forms you have to sign before surgery to absolve anyone from anything that goes wrong. Look at hiring practices now. I've had more screw ups at my bank because they're hiring undertrained people at low wages. More business are starting up in the remodelling trades with slick salespeople and inexperienced workers, a recipe for disaster. People promise the moon and deliver very little and don't seem to back up there work.

[shadroch]

Or drop their free resto check,which was never the service they stressed anyway.

 

So you would be paying anywhere from $29 up, per book, just to have your book put in a pretty holder and get a grading opinion on it? Hey, then use PGX...faster and cheaper and no worse for grading. I don't think so. I've never heard anyone give that as the main reason for going to all the trouble of having their books certified.

 

I have heard over and over in the last couple years, people saying the best thing about CGC is the restoration check....that's the most valuable part of the package. What was the big slam on PGX? That they were weak on restoration.

 

I think CGC DID stress the restoration check, and CONTINUES to stress it. Not in so many words, but remove it from certification and submissions of gold and silver will drop like a stone.

 

They'll never drop the resto check.

 

 

Really?

I guess those thousands of moderns they grade every week

come from folks worried about restoration.All those people who lined up at Wizard World to have that days free FF graded were more concerned with restoration than getting a 9.8 to sell on ebay?

The sales on silver and gold books will drop as the body of books that can gain from being slabbed drops.There is really no reason to slab a Fine 60s book,you'll rarely recover your grading fees anyway.

 

As CGC notes,a real restoration check will run almost $100. Your book will be examined and all defects or alterations will be noted-pressing,trimming,staple replacement(even with vintagestaples),color touch,ect,ect.

 

Lets declare a mulligan and go back to the playing field of '98.From the gist of many peoples posts,those were much better days for collectors of high grade books.

[FFB]

Or drop their free resto check,which was never the service they stressed anyway.

 

So you would be paying anywhere from $29 up, per book, just to have your book put in a pretty holder and get a grading opinion on it? Hey, then use PGX...faster and cheaper and no worse for grading. I don't think so. I've never heard anyone give that as the main reason for going to all the trouble of having their books certified.

 

I have heard over and over in the last couple years, people saying the best thing about CGC is the restoration check....that's the most valuable part of the package. What was the big slam on PGX? That they were weak on restoration.

 

I think CGC DID stress the restoration check, and CONTINUES to stress it. Not in so many words, but remove it from certification and submissions of gold and silver will drop like a stone.

 

They'll never drop the resto check.

 

Agreed, that is certainly how CGC wants itself to be perceived. Too bad it won't back up its own strengths in anything other than rhetoric. This should be the most significant aspect of CGC's services.

 

Maybe I'm missing something -- but hasn't CGC repurchased every book that has ever been caught having restoration inside of a blue label slab? And hasn't Borock said at least three times on these boards that if CGC blows a call on restoration, CGC will buy the book from the owner? I'd call that a bit more than rhetoric, regardless of what the legalese on the label or website says.

 

I am sorry, but I do not see the point in this discussion at all.