CFA APA

[Ares]

I'm sorry it sounds like you had some negative experiences in your time in the APA.

 

 

With that said, I would just like to say that most of the "antiquated" techniques mentioned in your response are no longer a part of the current APA mailings. With the proliferation of professional quality desktop publishing programs, the APA now has a very sleek and professional look for the most part (with color now as well!). One of our own CGC board members, Attezarf/ Rich Dannys, does some extremely high-quality stuff for the APA. The leadership of the APA is quite strong and they are doing quite a good job. If you ever have a chance to rejoin - I wouldn't pass it up.

Whats it take to join?

I wanted to do so long ago but I lost email and what it takes to join!

I want to see about joining when I return from vacation!

[pkveronese]

I'm sorry it sounds like you had some negative experiences in your time in the APA.

 

 

With that said, I would just like to say that most of the "antiquated" techniques mentioned in your response are no longer a part of the current APA mailings. With the proliferation of professional quality desktop publishing programs, the APA now has a very sleek and professional look for the most part (with color now as well!). One of our own CGC board members, Attezarf/ Rich Dannys, does some extremely high-quality stuff for the APA. The leadership of the APA is quite strong and they are doing quite a good job. If you ever have a chance to rejoin - I wouldn't pass it up.

Whats it take to join?

I wanted to do so long ago but I lost email and what it takes to join!

I want to see about joining when I return from vacation!

 

Ares - I just sent you a PM.

[Ares]

I'm sorry it sounds like you had some negative experiences in your time in the APA.

 

 

With that said, I would just like to say that most of the "antiquated" techniques mentioned in your response are no longer a part of the current APA mailings. With the proliferation of professional quality desktop publishing programs, the APA now has a very sleek and professional look for the most part (with color now as well!). One of our own CGC board members, Attezarf/ Rich Dannys, does some extremely high-quality stuff for the APA. The leadership of the APA is quite strong and they are doing quite a good job. If you ever have a chance to rejoin - I wouldn't pass it up.

Whats it take to join?

I wanted to do so long ago but I lost email and what it takes to join!

I want to see about joining when I return from vacation!

 

Ares - I just sent you a PM.

thanks

[vodou]

Not that long ago, there were limited editions of CFA-APA reprinting articles by the writer, sold on eBay auctions, described as compilation of just his own material -

 

I wonder if that approach was allowed or if the member was told to cease and desist.

 

That book - An Unruly Passion - is my effort. I self-published a short run of 100 copies, have sold about 80.

 

It wasn't particularly endorsed or supported by Roger Hill or current editors Benno Rothschild and Dave Newton, but certainly allowed. The CFA has always been upfront about the fact that each writer's contributions are wholly the writer's copyrighted works under standard copyright law. This was one major reason why a 'Best Of' was not seriously taken on...too many individuals (from the old days) to track down and try to get permission to reprint from.

 

I'm currently in negotiations with a publisher to get wider release for a second printing of An Unruly Passion and also a second volume with my writing since.

[pkveronese]

What heck should I write about next issue?!?!?!

[crawdad]

 

(Is a) limited edition of CFA-APA articles (published independently) by the writer... of just his own material (from past CFA-APA issues) allowed (by CFA-APA)... (I noticed a book of one member's CFA-APA articles being offerred on eBay).

That book - An Unruly Passion - is my effort. I self-published a short run of 100 copies, have sold about 80.

 

It wasn't particularly endorsed or supported by Roger Hill or current editors Benno Rothschild and Dave Newton, but certainly allowed. The CFA has always been upfront about the fact that each writer's contributions are wholly the writer's copyrighted works under standard copyright law. This was one major reason why a 'Best Of' was not seriously taken on...too many individuals (from the old days) to track down and try to get permission to reprint from.

 

Good for you, and that's great that An Unruly Passion did well.

 

My name is Roger Hill, I created the CFA-APA... I hold the copyright on issue(s) (I) originally assembled by hand...

 

While the reprinting of whole issues or a Best of CFA-APA is very unlikely to happen; bogus or counterfeit copies do turn up - so be careful, beware!

 

Gary Arlington, founder of an underground comix retail shop and maverick publishing house recently hit hard times, but 10 years ago the cramped landmark known as San Francisco Comic Book Co. had a copy shop make close-to-the-original in appearance bootlegs of the CFA-APA EC Artists issue (with a full color cover) which Gary tagged and bagged for $50 ea.

 

2 of the pirated copies sold to collectors that I know - they told me later; though one of those copies was eviscerated by the buyer, definitely not resold or used as anything other than a reference for contacting art collectors.

 

Whether Gary kept selling that issue or others, I never heard anything else...

I haven't talked to Gary since 1991.

Bill Leach was told asap about the facsimiles; the subject was dropped, with no mention of it in the APA.

 

I presume Gary added yet another cease and desist request to the many others he's received over the years. He's even made copies of the ones from the lawyer representing EC, and passed them out to customers as proof of his importance in the MAD Mad world.

I've still got one around here somewhere, with my typed response in defense of Gary, on a letterhead of a law firm I was working at, sent to Jack Albert (EC's lawyer) in New York.

I'll look for it and share it here for laughs - a momento from the days when Gary believed he was the #1 EC fan in the universe.

 

Even so, counterfeit APAs are not allowed in any universe, and Roger Hill and Benno Rothschild will even pay $30 each for bogus copies, in order to remove them from circulation!

 

Nevertheless, although without endorsement or support from the creator of CFA-APA or current editors, self-(re)publishing one's own contributions is allowed.

 

Each member's submitted/assembled CFA-material does not become the property of CFA-APA.

It's an interesting arrangement, if not altogether endorsed or welcomed.

 

Look back at comic book companies the way it used to be...

when the artist/writer often gave up the rights to one's work as soon as it was published...

 

Such as what happened to Siegel and Shuster, the creators of Superman - who fought DC in court for years trying to get a fraction of the royalties, but they wound up losing even the small deal they originally got.

 

And Marvel Comics- oh boy, who did what when and where's the art...

 

Does anyone remember when even CFA-APA members had to return various original comic art to certain artists who considered their art stolen by publishers, office clerks or whomever...

 

Art that wasn't stolen by CFA- APA members, who innocently bought it at cons...

but stolen property has no statute of limitations, and the topic was discussed at length in several

articles at the time.

 

 

I appreciate the post suggesting I consider rejoining the new and improved CFA-APA; thank you for that sensitive response.

 

Maybe if I touch down sometime with Bill Leach, whom I haven't seen in 5 or so years - and looked at recent issues!

 

After all, it was when I first went to Bill's home and he introduced me to the CFA-APA by unveiling his complete set at the time, of the first 25 issues...

 

I was totally blown away, as the kids say, and that's what inspired me to become a member ASAP!

 

The experience got me into computers, and it was worth every drop of blood, sweat and tears.

[crawdad]

CFA-APA used to have a forum, from late 1998 to early 2000.

 

I just discovered that I saved most of the threads!

 

It's interesting reading the lively discussions that were only allowed online without rules limiting the arguments.

 

The editors such as Roger Hill and Bill Leach advised back in 2000 to air complaints and such online rather than in the actual printed CFA-APA issues.

 

Btw, I started a guide + index to back issues at:

 

Apa index

[crawdad]

Here's an example of one... if there's any interest, perhaps the best could be revived...

 

too bad there is no online CFA-APA forum besides perhaps this thread at present... and it seems to be slow at the moment...

Subj: [cfa-apachat] CFA-APA reprints

Date: Sun, Nov 22, 1998 6:48 PM EDT

From: cfa-apachat@egroups.com

 

 

Hey Folks and Kennyboy,

ALRIGHT....HERE WE GO AGAIN....I just had my soapboxes polished....and I am

standing high atop both of them......

FIRST.....I was very pissed off when I found that Arlington had reprinted a

handful of the EC issues....I was with Sam Kingston at his store when I saw

them....I had words with Gary...but no legal recourse to remove the material

without being arrested. Gary argued his point...I argued mine....and i told

him to please stop...to my knowledge he has been selling the original few that

he printed...but I have no way of knowing how many....I also asked him to

refrain from reprinting any future issues and to also stay away from

reprinting any of my EC zines....he seemed to get the point.....so by no means

was I ever OK with this situation....it is one of the blatant situations that

got me going in the first place....as for it being OK for others....IT IS

NOT!!!!! Members or not...it does NOT sit well with me! But I can't police

the universe looking for reprint criminals....I am too darn busy.....

 

Now to the Ingels collage...that was a funny story...and one that I thank

Kenny for everytime i think of Sam Kingston.....Kenny had sent a copy of my

Ingels collage (made for the CFA-APA) to Sam Kingston who was starting a

little EC zine called Horror from the Crypt of Fear. Sam used it....and a

month later I got a call from a collector that mentioned it to me....well...I

had never heard of the zine..so I called the guy...and asked how it got to

him...when he mentioned Ken...I then told him I understood and was flattered

that he found it worthy to print. I then called Ken...and

mentioned it to him....I was never mad...but I did tell him he should let

people know what he is doing with their stuff if he is sending it out to be

printed in other zines....as it turned out...Sam Kingston and I became very

close...I helped him with his zine until he got sick and ended his life....far

too young to go....but he left. I took over Sam's zine with #8 and have since

printed #9 and #10.....they were all pretty cool. I still miss Sam...but if it

had not been for my pal Kenny...I would have never met him.....so thank you

Ken....

Bill Leach

art director/CFA-APA

 

(Kennyboy = crawdad)

[crawdad]

Here's a portion of my last published article in CFA-APA...

 

-----------------------

 

The Delights of Collecting Horror Art ... A Purist's Tale

 

by (crawdad)

 

[italics] Once the proud owner of a NM/Mint unread copy of Amazing Fantasy #15

which he bought for $8 in 1967 from Howard Rogofsky, (crawdad) is a native of San Francisco, a collector's mecca. He was introduced to the subtleties of comic art while

reading Jules Feiffer's "The Great Comic Book Heroes," but nothing quite

prepared (crawdad) for the revelations that he discovered in Frederic Wertham's

book, "Seduction of the Innocent." We'll let (crawdad) take it from here ...

[end italics]

 

Collecting comic book art has been my primary focus for the past dozen years.

 

In 1965, I looked at the stack of comics that I'd been casually hoarding

for several years and decided "I'm a comic book collector . . . this is what I

want to do, full-time, for the rest of my life."

Serious about studying American pop culture at the ripe old age of 11, I began searching several local libraries for snippets of vital comic book history.

 

I poured through the reference guides to Periodical Literature and combed the card catalogs.

 

Feiffer's book had referenced a title called "Seduction of the Innocent" and after searching the Dewey Decimal System index cards in the long wooden files at the San Francisco State College

library, I hit pay dirt! Wertham's book was a page-turner, and it instilled my

collecting passions with a sense of taboo.

 

His perverse manipulation of statistics included a wonderfully graphic selection of comic book panels and covers that functioned quite nicely as a want list! All it took was one long

look at the good girl art of Matt Baker's Phantom Lady #17, and a peek at

Johnny Craig's frightening horror art for the cover of Crime Suspenstories

#20.

I became an instant convert, hooked like the juvenile delinquents Wertham had observed frantically craving crime comics!

 

Within the pages of that library copy of "Seduction of the Innocent" I also

discovered irreverent penciled-in snipes by a fellow collector named Jeff. I

tracked Jeff down, he turned out to be my age, and working in tandem we

compiled lists of our favorite comic artists, greats like Raymond, Williamson,

Kirby and Ditko.

 

Soon after, I began doing what all art collectors should: I started contacting

artists and writers whose work I was fond of. My first encounter was with Carl

Barks, the famous Duck Man who created Uncle Scrooge. I wrote Mr. Barks a fan

letter, asking him for a sketch that I might use in my fanzine, and Barks

wrote back, kindly including a sketch at the top of his reply, a tiny

self-portrait with ducks on his shoulder! I responded excitedly, and asked

about buying some of his original comic book art, naming a figure off the top

of my head, $25 per page. I think that I was one of the very first collectors

to ever make such a request of Barks. He wrote back, agreeing to my offer in

his next letter, and listed several interior pages of 1960s material. Ever the

purist, though, I foolishly passed on the art, preferring his 1950s work and

his splashes. Today those interior mid-1960s pages are very hard to come by,

even at $1,000 apiece!

 

That's lesson #1, which is to learn to bend your taste parameters within

reason to help support this expensive habit.

 

 

...I can share some very useful secrets

with you that I have learned along the way!

 

THE SECRETS BEHIND COLLECTING

 

...I obtained my first complete E.C. story...

 

 

MY MOTTO AND TOP FIVE TIPS

 

My motto has become...

 

Here are my Top Five day-to-day tips for becoming an advanced collector

of original art...

 

[Attezarf-migration]

Hello Ken "crawdad" Kaffke!

 

Great to see you on this Messageboard.. I remember your CFA-APA articles, very well!

 

>>I appreciate the post suggesting I consider rejoining the new and improved CFA-APA; thank you for that sensitive response. Maybe if I touch down sometime with Bill Leach, whom I haven't seen in 5 or so years - and looked at recent issues!<<

 

As a former-member who has recently re-joined the Fold.. I can tell you that the CFA-APA is in the BEST form I've yet seen it in!! No disrespect to either Roger Hill, Bob Koppany, or Bill Leach intended.. But, Benno Rothschild & Dave Newton have been doing a truly remarkable job of keeping Editorial duties running in tip-top shape!

And we've added a slew of "new" Members from a number of different online 'Original Art' collecting communities, like 'comicart-l' and the 'CAF Galleries', which (in my opinion) has really revitalized the energy of our APA group!

 

>>CFA-APA used to have a forum, from late 1998 to early 2000. The editors such as Roger Hill and Bill Leach advised back in 2000 to air complaints and such online rather than in the actual printed CFA-APA issues... Too bad there is no online CFA-APA forum besides perhaps this thread at present... and it seems to be slow at the moment...<<

 

Actually, the [cfa-apachat] Forum still exists.. But is now located at the 'yahoogroups.com' address. It is NOT a public forum, unlike (say) the 'comicart-l' group.. It was created for CFA-APA members, exclusively.. And is managed/moderated currently by CFA-APA member: Don Mangus..

I don't recall the [cfa-apachat] being specifically designed to air complaints & grievances.. But yes, a bit of occasional griping still does occur, there. From my perspective, it is intended more as a casual gathering place for the Membership to discuss 'original art' collecting issues, between the published issues of our APA?

 

At present, our APA is beyond full-capacity.. And while I always recommend that 'original art' collecting enthusiasts join (or re-join) this amazing group.. I recognize that interested parties will probably have to sit patiently by, on a "waiting list".. 'til another member either quits or drops-out, to afford the necessary space.

 

Interested parties can feel free to PM me, on this matter..

 

-- Rich --

[Mister Trent]

At present, our APA is beyond full-capacity.. And while I always recommend that 'original art' collecting enthusiasts join (or re-join) this amazing group.. I recognize that interested parties will probably have to sit patiently by, on a "waiting list".. 'til another member either quits or drops-out, to afford the necessary space.

 

Interested parties can feel free to PM me, on this matter..

 

-- Rich --

 

Why the need for a limited membership???

 

Surely, the Association should be looking to expand - not to exist as a small (elitist?) group.

 

If members take the time and effort to produce well-researched articles, why go to all that trouble for the sake of reaching a very limited audience?

 

To my mind, it's all backwards-thinking (anyone care to convince me otherwise?).

[Attezarf-migration]

Hello Mister Trent!

 

>>Why the need for a limited membership???<<

>>Surely, the Association should be looking to expand - not to exist as a small (elitist?) group.

If members take the time and effort to produce well-researched articles, why go to all that trouble for the sake of reaching a very limited audience?<<

>>To my mind, it's all backwards-thinking (anyone care to convince me otherwise?).<<

 

It's a fair enough question...

But then, why does ANYONE join a Club or Hobby group? If not to share exclusive insights with individuals of like-minded enthusiasms? Anyone can start & build their own APA group.. It's tougher to maintain a GOOD one. Or, one with longevity. Parameters need to be set. And these... work for us.

 

I won't argue that there is certainly a taste of Elitism to our small cozy group. Most of the Membership is comfortable with those "Secret Clubhouse" qualities. As nerdy, as that may sound.. If we could find a way to add an unlimited number to our ranks, we would..

But the size of the actual Membership List, is dictated purely by the physical limitations of "publishing" a book that encapsulates the thoughts of roughly 40+ members.. Many of whom write articles 4-to-10 pages in length. Some, even longer than that..

My contribution to the current issue, was 18 pages. And binding a Volume that is hundreds of pages thick, requires us to keep the Membership at set levels.. Otherwise the spiral combs that we use to bind the books, simply won't contain ALL of the submitted articles..

So there's a practical reason, for the limited-size of our Group. And we're all pretty comfortable with the APA's current rules & regulations.

 

There was talk at one time of publishing TWO (or more) concurrent issues, within our APA. But the Membership basically decided that this was not in our collective best interests.. And another APA would arise to fill that void, if the need was really there for it..

 

-- Rich --

[Mister Trent]

Hello Mister Trent!

 

>>Why the need for a limited membership???<<

>>Surely, the Association should be looking to expand - not to exist as a small (elitist?) group.

If members take the time and effort to produce well-researched articles, why go to all that trouble for the sake of reaching a very limited audience?<<

>>To my mind, it's all backwards-thinking (anyone care to convince me otherwise?).<<

 

It's a fair enough question...

But then, why does ANYONE join a Club or Hobby group? If not to share exclusive insights with individuals of like-minded enthusiasms? Anyone can start & build their own APA group.. It's tougher to maintain a GOOD one. Or, one with longevity. Parameters need to be set. And these... work for us.

 

I won't argue that there is certainly a taste of Elitism to our small cozy group. Most of the Membership is comfortable with those "Secret Clubhouse" qualities. As nerdy, as that may sound.. If we could find a way to add an unlimited number to our ranks, we would..

But the size of the actual Membership List, is dictated purely by the physical limitations of "publishing" a book that encapsulates the thoughts of roughly 40+ members.. Many of whom write articles 4-to-10 pages in length. Some, even longer than that..

My contribution to the current issue, was 18 pages. And binding a Volume that is hundreds of pages thick, requires us to keep the Membership at set levels.. Otherwise the spiral combs that we use to bind the books, simply won't contain ALL of the submitted articles..

So there's a practical reason, for the limited-size of our Group. And we're all pretty comfortable with the APA's current rules & regulations.

 

There was talk at one time of publishing TWO (or more) concurrent issues, within our APA. But the Membership basically decided that this was not in our collective best interests.. And another APA would arise to fill that void, if the need was really there for it..

 

-- Rich --

 

Hi Rich

 

Whilst I understand the basis of how the material (submitted individually by the membership) is collated, wouldn't it be more practical to go for a printing option (of several hundred copies per issue), along the lines of a fanzine?

 

Naturally, that would limit the number of pages per issue, but it would also ease the need to maintain a regular level of contribution.

 

For someone like myself, I like to write articles as and when I'm sufficiently motivated and enthusiastic - which is not necessarily on a regular basis!