Probably Not The Mile High Action Comics 1 But Allegedly Some Random Raw Sells Privately for $4.5 Million - Potentially...Allegedly 8 8

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 4/13/2022 at 5:07 PM, djpinkpanther67 said:

Yup. A guy on FB was displaying his handiwork. Posted they are coming back universal non conserved. 

So wet cleaning is now getting by CGC?

Wonder what else the paper mechanics are getting past them....

[MGsimba77]

On 4/13/2022 at 4:55 PM, Domo Arigato said:

And if it wasn't "improved"....and just sent back in for a review and received an upgrade with the same cert #.....doesn't that mean the original submitter received a major screw job by CGC?

Well checking the thread in the GA forum, someone posted the sub dates of the original two 8.0s. One was subbed July 2001 the other December 2014. I would guess this was the 2001 copy since it's a Church. If it is then maybe not too surprising the grade would change. 

Btw as an aside, I read an 8.0 copy (maybe this one) was sold in 2009 for as much as a million. Anyone know more about this? At any rate, I think there's "the Dentist's" copy of Sup 1 still out there sitting raw?....this kind of puts a new light on that unless it was submitted! 

Edited April 13, 2022 by MGsimba77

[Bronty]

On 4/13/2022 at 5:07 PM, djpinkpanther67 said:

Yup. A guy on FB was displaying his handiwork. Posted they are coming back universal non conserved. 

whoa, really

[Domo Arigato]

On 4/13/2022 at 5:07 PM, MGsimba77 said:

I would guess this was the 2001 copy since it's a Church. If it is then maybe not too surprising the grade would change. 

If it has now been pressed....then I agree.

If it hasn't....I understand that grades can change because grading is subjective......but unless it's a fine wine that gets better with age, a book of this caliber should not change grades with no work done to it.  Especially when graded by the same company that previously graded it. 

A book like this would command a large grading fee, and should be gone over with a fine tooth comb each time it passes through CGC.  If no work was done to it, giving it a higher grade on its second trip through would just mean the original submitter was screwed out of some serious money.

Edited April 13, 2022 by Domo Arigato

[Joshua33]

On 4/13/2022 at 2:07 PM, djpinkpanther67 said:

Yup. A guy on FB was displaying his handiwork. Posted they are coming back universal non conserved. 

Lemme guess... FB handle is #therealjasonewert? 

[Randall Dowling]

On 4/13/2022 at 4:07 PM, djpinkpanther67 said:

Yup. A guy on FB was displaying his handiwork. Posted they are coming back universal non conserved. 

There's a board member here posting about his process and claiming the same.  I'm not a fan.

[chrisco37]

Fair or not, just have to assume it was pressed before resub.  
 

Regardless, it’s an incredible book and a historic sale.  Congrats to all involved.  Based on the 7.0 Metro book sale, I’m not surprised at the record number.  Supes 1 is the book that completes the GA Holy Trifecta. 

[valiantman]

On 1/10/2022 at 12:48 PM, valiantman said:

I have no insider knowledge of any of this, but somewhere in my reading various sites, I saw that a Superman #1 sold recently for a very high price.  I'd guess that's the correct book, even if the $4.5M is still wrong.

[Hey Kids, Comics!]

So now is everyone with a PLOD Mile High screaming for a re-grade and a blue label?

[Randall Dowling]

There's some weird post suppression happening in this thread...

[theCapraAegagrus]

[FFB]

On 4/14/2022 at 9:18 AM, Hey Kids, Comics! said:

So now is everyone with a PLOD Mile High screaming for a re-grade and a blue label?

More likely the purple label Mile Highs have a little more color touch and/or glue than permits a blue label.  I'd be sending it in for removal, that's for sure.  

[Randall Dowling]

On 4/19/2022 at 9:00 PM, FFB said:

More likely the purple label Mile Highs have a little more color touch and/or glue than permits a blue label.  I'd be sending it in for removal, that's for sure.  

I wouldn't do that.  To me, nothing looks worse than a book where someone has removed pieces of the cover to "remove restoration".  Books look so much worse after that process- it's very destructive.  It's a sad state of affairs when the hobby values books more that have been cut up over books with minor color touches.

As a buyer, I'd pay more for the purple label without restoration removal than whatever grade the blue label got you with all the holes on the cover.  

[Transplant]

On 4/13/2022 at 11:51 PM, Randall Dowling said:

There's a board member here posting about his process and claiming the same.  I'm not a fan.

Link? @Randall Dowling

[VintageComics]

On 4/19/2022 at 10:00 PM, FFB said:

On 4/14/2022 at 12:18 PM, Hey Kids, Comics! said:

now is everyone with a PLOD Mile High screaming for a re-grade and a blue label?

More likely the purple label Mile Highs have a little more color touch and/or glue than permits a blue label.  I'd be sending it in for removal, that's for sure.  

As a general rule, if the CT or glue does not improve the grade, it's counted as a defect and factored into the grade.

If it improves the grade, it goes into a purple label. 

On 4/19/2022 at 11:23 PM, Randall Dowling said:

I wouldn't do that.  To me, nothing looks worse than a book where someone has removed pieces of the cover to "remove restoration".  Books look so much worse after that process- it's very destructive.  It's a sad state of affairs when the hobby values books more that have been cut up over books with minor color touches.

As a buyer, I'd pay more for the purple label without restoration removal than whatever grade the blue label got you with all the holes on the cover.  

I feel the same way and have argued for years (decades) that more education about restoration would remove this loophole and buyers would feel more comfortable paying stronger prices for restored books - or closer to the value these books would be worth should they be 'un-restored'.

The same with pressed books. If collectors were conditioned to recognized unpressed books and pay more for their originality (ie closer to their potentially improved grades) you'd remove the loophole that creates the pressing industry. 

It's just economics and as long as people don't want to pony up there are a few who will use those loopholes for profit. 

[FFB]

On 4/20/2022 at 1:42 PM, VintageComics said:

As a general rule, if the CT or glue does not improve the grade, it's counted as a defect and factored into the grade.

If it improves the grade, it goes into a purple label. 

I feel the same way and have argued for years (decades) that more education about restoration would remove this loophole and buyers would feel more comfortable paying stronger prices for restored books - or closer to the value these books would be worth should they be 'un-restored'.

The same with pressed books. If collectors were conditioned to recognized unpressed books and pay more for their originality (ie closer to their potentially improved grades) you'd remove the loophole that creates the pressing industry. 

It's just economics and as long as people don't want to pony up there are a few who will use those loopholes for profit. 

Regarding restoration, I used to say this right here about 15 years ago, and still, here we are, with Slight P purple labels selling at a dramatic discount to blue labels in the same grade as what the book was before the Slight P work was done.  The education hasn't worked.  I am pretty sure that serious collectors who spend on books like that know at least the basics of what restoration is, and the values still haven't closed the gap over time.  

Regarding pressing, I completely disagree.  Pressing doesn't exist because of some loophole, it exists because it removes or minimizes defects, and higher grade books sell for more than lower grade books. 

Too many people chase labels whether they want to admit it or not, and would rather have a 9.8 that they know is pressed over a 9.4 that wasn't.  There isn't going to be a magical Kumbaya moment where all of a sudden people en masse prefer books that haven't been pressed to the point where they'll pay the same or more than they (or someone else) will pay for the same book, pressed, and now grades 2 to 5 grade levels higher.  As long as the pressed book sells for more than the unpressed book, things will remain as they have for the last 20 years.  It's not a loophole; it's the nature of most collectors who chase high grade books.  

[VintageComics]

On 4/20/2022 at 5:50 PM, FFB said:

Regarding restoration, I used to say this right here about 15 years ago, and still, here we are, with Slight P purple labels selling at a dramatic discount to blue labels in the same grade as what the book was before the Slight P work was done.  The education hasn't worked.  I am pretty sure that serious collectors who spend on books like that know at least the basics of what restoration is, and the values still haven't closed the gap over time. 

One of reasons I argued 15 years ago (along with Borock) that a blue label for all books rather than a purple label would be more beneficial over all was that it would FORCE people to understand restoration better. I was labelled all sorts of nasty things for suggesting that, including that I was only looking to line my own pockets. 

Anybody with half a brain and a mild understanding of history can understand how the purple label has OVER stigmatized restored books, leaving this big gaps in value. 

Anyway, I don't care personally. I'm just saying that if the comic collecting world REALLY cared about saving these books from having resto removed they'd take it upon themselves to educated themselves better and pay more for them rather than leave the value gap and make them so appealing for people who remove the resto. It's simple economics. 

On 4/20/2022 at 5:50 PM, FFB said:

Regarding pressing, I completely disagree.  Pressing doesn't exist because of some loophole, it exists because it removes or minimizes defects, and higher grade books sell for more than lower grade books. 

The loophole I was talking about was the value gap I was similarly talking about above, with restored books. 

If collectors truly preferred 'virgin', unpressed copies then they should pay more for them and remove the financial incentive that pressers have to buy them and press them.

Again, it's simple economics. 

In BOTH cases above, if collectors paid more for the books with hidden potential, those upgrade markets wouldn't exist.