Tom Morgan Punisher 2099 #1 auction result 0

[MIL0S]

thoughts on this one? the cover and complete interiors for Punisher 2099 #1 from 1993 by Tom Morgan just sold on Comiclink for $62,634. I realize current prices are nutty but this one took me by surprise. . The highest priced Morgan piece in the Heritage archive is the cover for Incredible Hulk 330 which he inked but it also happened to be Todd McFarlane's first published Marvel cover and it sold for 'only' $34k in 2018 and then the next highest piece barely cracked $3k. 

[jjonahjameson11]

I think you should reach out to Dinesh.

[Twanj]

Silly.

This fabricated push for first appearances with characters people don't care about is beyond ridiculous.

[Ted_L]

I like the art, but agreed that this is pretty nutty for a fairly insignificant character.  Spider-Man 2099 was really the only successful 2099 book due to the superior writing and art (and cool character design). 

Other surprises to me in this auction:
Super-Villain Team-Up #12 cover for $65.5K.  I love Cockrum art,but this went for at least twice what I thought it would, especially since there are no heroes on the cover.
Solar #3 cover for $59.5K.  It's a cool image by Barry Windsor-Smith, but  that seems pretty high compared with the Conan #6 cover which went for $89K.

I was also somewhat surprised by the strong price for the Gil Kane Inhumans #1 cover in the ComicConnect Auction at 88.5K.  I have a Kane Inhumans cover (which I think is a better image) and I'd never value it that highly, but maybe people are just going nuts for #1 issues now.  

[comix4fun]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:25 AM, MIL0S said:

thoughts on this one? the cover and complete interiors for Punisher 2099 #1 from 1993 by Tom Morgan just sold on Comiclink for $62,634. I realize current prices are nutty but this one took me by surprise. . The highest priced Morgan piece in the Heritage archive is the cover for Incredible Hulk 330 which he inked but it also happened to be Todd McFarlane's first published Marvel cover and it sold for 'only' $34k in 2018 and then the next highest piece barely cracked $3k. 

https://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1733396

 

[The Voord]

Punisher looks like a 1970s glam rock star . . . just needs a pair of stack-heel boots to complete the look!  Wonder how fast he can do his combat thing in that cumbersome-looking outfit?!  

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by The Voord
Site went down for maintenance before I could add a photo.

[Bronty]

On 12/21/2021 at 6:09 AM, Qarlo Clobreggny said:

Punisher looks like a glam rock star . . . just needs a pair of stack-heel boots to complete the look!  Wonder how fast he can do his combat thing in that cumbersome-looking outfit?!  

To be fair, it IS the future…

[Bronty]

 

[jjonahjameson11]

On 12/19/2021 at 1:24 PM, Twanj said:

Silly.

This fabricated push for first appearances with characters people don't care about is beyond ridiculous.

what's fabricated about it?  I've mentioned several times that OA is very slow to market when it comes to things such as covid price spikes and 1st appearances.  Its just par for the course of a maturing market wherein OA is following collectible cards 1st appearances (rookie cards) and comic characters' 1st appearances, etc.

[Bronty]

On 12/21/2021 at 8:17 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

what's fabricated about it?  I've mentioned several times that OA is very slow to market when it comes to things such as covid price spikes and 1st appearances.  Its just par for the course of a maturing market wherein OA is following collectible cards 1st appearances (rookie cards) and comic characters' 1st appearances, etc.

Its a lot of speculation though too.   Not in this case necessarily but as you say it’s following the card model and the card model is a pretty sharp left turn from where art collecting has been historically and leaves us with the art and even the story and artist not mattering, and just ‘is it a first appearance / rookie card or not’ kind of thinking, and can I double my money in 12 months kind of thinking.  
 

The upshot of that becomes knowing comics doesn’t matter and almost caring about comics doesn’t matter.   It’s such a ‘dumbed down’ approach at least in terms of appreciation of (what were?) hobby fundamentals that many collectors , myself included , start to wonder what the point of collecting that way is. 
 

I think we all understand that there’s value to pages from daredevil 1 or whatever.    It’s when the concept of first app premium gets taken to this degree that it gets to be a bit much for some.   Not to decry this particular sale in any way, the buyer can buy what they like.    It’s just that this shift in direction leaves a lot of people feeling out of sync with the new direction. 
 

(First appearances are becoming a bit of a thing in video games too and no one ever cared about that for a split second until money from cards showed up).

Edited December 21, 2021 by Bronty

[Guest Race]

More and more money is chasing fewer quality assets, leading to a search for yield which results in investments in lower tier products. It's the same phenomenon which is driving the stock of tech companies (with zero revenues and $500M in debt) to new highs. I hope everyone enjoys the ride in OA, and makes as much money as possible over the next year, because once the clock runs out on the stock market in 2023 it's going to be very bad for everyone -- and especially bad for anyone holding lower quality, over-valued OA. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Race

[The Voord]

On 12/21/2021 at 11:44 AM, Bronty said:

To be fair, it IS the future…

Well, I hope his secret identity is inconspicuous looking  ;)

 

[Mighty Hal]

On 12/21/2021 at 8:05 AM, Race said:

... once the clock runs out on the stock market in 2023 it's going to be very bad for everyone -- and especially bad for anyone holding lower quality, over-valued OA. 

Race, it'll only be a little bad for collectors holding high quality, over-valued OA?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but please tell me why you're right. The market crashed in 2000 and 2008 and original comic art prices wavered for about half a minute, then kept climbing. Stock market prices recovered, too. In my 20 years in the hobby, I've heard dire warnings about OA several times. None of them have come true... yet.

[Guest Race]

Hal, rather than explain what I know, I'd rather explain what it going to happen over the next year. If it is true, well, then you might consider I could be right about how this ends in 2023. By this time next year, we should see:

6,000 on the S&P

Bitcoin at $125,000, and

an inflation rate of 22%.

Just bookmark this and see how it goes.

[batman_fan]

I have a ton of stuff to sell but just haven't gotten around to listing it.  Only thing that happens is the longer I wait the more I can get for it.

[aokartman]

I've made some colossally bad and embarrassingly good transactions from my collections in the past.  It comes with the territory and they all make for memorable recollections, with hopefully many more to come.  I continue to reinvest a small percentage of any lucrative proceeds back into my interests, including original comic art, for better or worse.  

David

[Xatari]

On 12/21/2021 at 5:55 AM, Bronty said:The upshot of that becomes knowing comics doesn’t matter and almost caring about comics doesn’t matter.

 

I think we all understand that there’s value to pages from daredevil 1 or whatever.    It’s when the concept of first app premium gets taken to this degree that it gets to be a bit much for some.   Not to decry this particular sale in any way, the buyer can buy what they like.    It’s just that this shift in direction leaves a lot of people feeling out of sync with the new direction. 

I think these are both interesting points. Being new to the hobby, here’s what I’ve observed in regard to the first point. Older collectors largely stopped reading comics and don’t care about new characters. This is why collectors were so taken aback by the Ultimate Fallout 4 cover sale price.
 

However, it is my understanding the sentiment was the same when Fish paid a then outrageous price for the Wolverine page from Hulk 180. Each generation tends to do the same thing and care little about what they view as newer (can also be read as “irrelevant”) characters. This shouldn’t surprise anyone when it happens but still manages to do so. 

In regard to first appearance collecting, sure there is an element of this from the card hobby, but it has been prevalent in comics from the get-go. First appearances were always sought after. Given a high percentage of OA collectors started with comics, I’m shocked that the collector community has by and large been surprised by this approach over the past few years. This seems to be the natural progression and maturation of the hobby. Newer collectors have had this imprinted on their collecting mindset by the previous generations of comic collectors for as long as I can remember.

Reps, Artists, and newer collectors are all embracing this and pricing accordingly. Additionally while feels like a crazy jump in pricing the past two years, let’s keep in mind, most collectibles have seen similar increases across the board. 

Context has always mattered to collectors, and I would expect to see a continued separation of pricing with first appearance art. I don’t think the hobby goes back from here.

[Xatari]

On 12/21/2021 at 5:27 PM, batman_fan said:

I have a ton of stuff to sell but just haven't gotten around to listing it.  Only thing that happens is the longer I wait the more I can get for it.

Better send me a list sooner rather than later. ;)

[Xatari]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:48 AM, jjonahjameson11 said:

I think you should reach out to Dinesh.

I think people will be surprised on this one. The rumor I’ve heard is not at all what I expected. Hopefully the winner posts publicly. 

[Guest Race]

A rehashed version of an old character is not a new character, it is just laziness from a writer. "Punisher 2099" will have no lasting value, period. Sorry this will hurt your mint condition run, but there it is.

Again, I just hope those spending money on anonymous bad art with characters of no value are individuals who have so much money a loss won't matter in two years. For the poor guy of normal means who is considering buying a single page of this character, thinking he will be making a solid investment (but in reality facing a future +75% loss), well, that's the guy I hope pays some attention to what I am saying.