• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

What Makes a Villain Transcend the Ordinary?

Started by 14 of spades,

84 posts in this topic

Timulty

Timulty

Posted
Posted

Sirrah, you eater of privvies....Joker empathizes with no one as well. Nut job pure and utter. I believe, the ability to convey how evil the villain is a primary method of how a villain can transcend. Joker shoots Bat Girl, kills Robin, poisons fish with his joker venom(poor fishies) etc. Attacks meant to show, that there is no redemption for the villain.

 

You know, I was watching Smallville other day. If you go through and watch how Lex keeps trying to be good but you realize that he is doomed to failure, you get a sense of how bad that cat is. He tries to act against nature but in the end...he is going to fail.

 

Of course, the villain needs exposure. If someone doesn't write about the villain then he or she lies forgotten doomed for the occasional comic book event or crossover. I mean, anybody here remember Egghead?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
deathlok

deathlok

Posted
Posted
My god, someone on the boards doesn't read non-graphic novels? How, well excuse the pun, novel.

 

Except the idea of Moriarty doesn't apply to the discussion. Moriarity was a nemesis of Sherlock Holmes, yet only appeared in 2 out of 60 novels written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The second book didn't even have Moriarty in it, but only mentions him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
tilleycs

tilleycs

Posted
Posted
Sorry, way off base here. Never in my life have I related to a villain's life, nor a hero's life for that matter.

 

I didn't say that you had to had to relate to their entire lives; that would be impossible. I cited different aspects of their character and/or motivation. You've never been under stress or experienced trauma that made you make a bad decision? You've never wanted revenge? Never been jealous or greedy? Never wished ill on people? There's nothing at all in any villain (or hero) that you can relate to or understand?

 

These are not qualities that make a great villain. It just makes you understand a villain more. The villain still has to have the traits necessary to make him a great villain.

 

Agreed, but the question wasn't what makes a great villain, the question was what makes some villains transcend others. I think it's depth of character, and relatability/connection are strong selling points for many of them.

 

So you are making you're arguement based upon subjectivity. Just because you can't connect with a villain, they are not a great villain?

 

It's an opinion question/topic, so *everything* is going to subjective, including your post. And I didn't say that Kang wasn't a great villain (you may want to go back and read what I posted). I said that he does nothing for me because I can't connect with anything in his character. Obviously someone in power must like him, and everyone has their preferences. I've just never cared for him.

 

There is some basis to this. Having a villain who is conflicted, poses an interesting character development. The same could be said for Magneto.

 

True, Magneto is another great example.

 

even though I disagree with your points, good discussion. thumbsup2.gif

 

Thanks, although I'm getting the impression that you're disagreeing just to disagree. But I'm glad to have something different to discuss.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
chrisco37

chrisco37

Posted
Posted
My god, someone on the boards doesn't read non-graphic novels? How, well excuse the pun, novel.

 

Except the idea of Moriarty doesn't apply to the discussion. Moriarity was a nemesis of Sherlock Holmes, yet only appeared in 2 out of 60 novles written by Sir Aurthur Conan Doyle. The second book didn't even have Moriarty in it, but only mentions him.

 

Good grief, man. Did you take an extra dose of contentiousness pills this week? foreheadslap.gifpoke2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
october

october

Posted
Posted
My god, someone on the boards doesn't read non-graphic novels? How, well excuse the pun, novel.

 

Except the idea of Moriarty doesn't apply to the discussion. Moriarity was a nemesis of Sherlock Holmes, yet only appeared in 2 out of 60 novels written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The second book didn't even have Moriarty in it, but only mentions him.

 

The wonders of Google. poke2.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
deathlok

deathlok

Posted
Posted
My god, someone on the boards doesn't read non-graphic novels? How, well excuse the pun, novel.

 

Except the idea of Moriarty doesn't apply to the discussion. Moriarity was a nemesis of Sherlock Holmes, yet only appeared in 2 out of 60 novels written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The second book didn't even have Moriarty in it, but only mentions him.

 

The wonders of Google. poke2.gif

Why would you feel the need to Google what I just posted? Do you not trust that what I post is truth? I'm hurt. sorry.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Timulty

Timulty

Posted
Posted

Trust is earned. Which is another aspect to the villains ability to transcend. I remember some of the comics with the Joker, in them and he could be counted on to cut an run on his henchmen. Again, enhancing his bad dude rep. making him more villainous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
october

october

Posted
Posted
My god, someone on the boards doesn't read non-graphic novels? How, well excuse the pun, novel.

 

Except the idea of Moriarty doesn't apply to the discussion. Moriarity was a nemesis of Sherlock Holmes, yet only appeared in 2 out of 60 novels written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The second book didn't even have Moriarty in it, but only mentions him.

 

The wonders of Google. poke2.gif

Why would you feel the need to Google what I just posted? Do you not trust that what I post is truth? I'm hurt. sorry.gif

 

No, I meant....oh nevermind. boo.gif

 

 

POST 5000, PEDIGREED!!!!!!!!!!! yay.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites
greggy

greggy

Posted
Posted
My god, someone on the boards doesn't read non-graphic novels? How, well excuse the pun, novel.

 

Except the idea of Moriarty doesn't apply to the discussion. Moriarity was a nemesis of Sherlock Holmes, yet only appeared in 2 out of 60 novels written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The second book didn't even have Moriarty in it, but only mentions him.

 

The wonders of Google. poke2.gif

Why would you feel the need to Google what I just posted? Do you not trust that what I post is truth? I'm hurt. sorry.gif

screwy.gif
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Norrin_Radd

Norrin_Radd

Posted
Posted
Okay, then they never saw the Basil Rathbone movies then. Wait a sec, I can't remember him in any of those either. I must....eat ....my ....shoe ......ARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!

 

Yes he was! He was played by Lionel Atwill. Those movies were my first exposure to the characters of Sherlock Holmes back in the early-80s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
deathlok

deathlok

Posted
Posted

Another trait that makes a great villain is motive. Why is a villain doing what he is doing? There are many reasons for commiting a crime or act of violence, but the motive is developed the deeper the character becomes.

 

For example, many of Flash's Rogues Gallery exist only to steal money. That's pretty much sums up their motives. So they never evolve beyond simple thieves, regardless of their powers or history.

 

On the other hand, you take a villain like Ultron. Whose motive is to rule the world, a simple and oft used motive, but effective nonetheless. This makes him much more than a simple thief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing