Wow, a CGC 9.0 with a partially detached staple? 1 1

[Randall Ries]

On 12/27/2021 at 6:38 PM, The Lions Den said:

Absolutely...

So then, what the Hell is a popped staple? I always assumed it was a staple unstuck from the cover or even the entirety of the pages.

[jimjum12]

On 12/27/2021 at 8:12 PM, Randall Ries said:

I always assumed it was a staple unstuck from the cover or even the entirety of the pages.

We really do need a glossary of terms. We should all be on the same page. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[The Lions Den]

On 12/27/2021 at 8:12 PM, Randall Ries said:

So then, what the Hell is a popped staple? I always assumed it was a staple unstuck from the cover or even the entirety of the pages.

Of course you're right, but there are some disturbing variations...  

For me, a true "popped staple" is a staple that's pulled completely through the cover. Sadly, this can often happen from simply opening the cover. I've seen it on a variety of different comics (you may want to check out the Heritage site for numerous high grade examples of this phenomenon) but for some reason (likely cheap paper stock) it seems to be more common on Silver and Bronze Age Marvels and DCs.

I think the term may have originated from the somewhat unnerving sound that's associated with "popping" a staple---yes, you can actually hear it "pop." So while graders and other folks may use the term a bit more loosely (similar to calling a full length vertical crease on the cover a "subscription" crease regardless of how it actually occurred) a true popped staple isn't partially detached---it's pulled completely through the cover and often a few wraps as well. And it can't be reattached through normal means, either---emergency surgery may be your only hope.

The book that started this conversation may have a minor slice or tear that runs vertically next to the staple, but at this point it still appears to be completely attached (not popped). And you may also see a book like the one I've shown, where the slice exposes several layers of the interior but still remains intact. And of course there can be various examples of wear and tear at the top and bottom of the staples, such as what you often see on Warren mags, where the staple is tight but the surrounding paper is torn, thus causing the staple to sink inward. 

For me, being the one that truly "pops" a staple on a high grade vintage book is one of the most unforgettable experiences you can have. And I still have the nightmares...  

 

[Randall Ries]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:01 PM, The Lions Den said:

Of course you're right, but there are some disturbing variations...  

For me, a true "popped staple" is a staple that's pulled completely through the cover. Sadly, this can often happen from simply opening the cover. I've seen it on a variety of different comics (you may want to check out the Heritage site for numerous high grade examples of this phenomenon) but for some reason (likely cheap paper stock) it seems to be more common on Silver and Bronze Age Marvels and DCs.

I think the term may have originated from the somewhat unnerving sound that's associated with "popping" a staple---yes, you can actually hear it "pop." So while graders and other folks may use the term a bit more loosely (similar to calling a full length vertical crease on the cover a "subscription" crease regardless of how it actually occurred) a true popped staple isn't partially detached---it's pulled completely through the cover and often a few wraps as well. And it can't be reattached through normal means, either---emergency surgery may be your only hope.

The book that started this conversation may have a minor slice or tear that runs vertically next to the staple, but at this point it still appears to be completely attached (not popped). And you may also see a book like the one I've shown, where the slice exposes several layers of the interior but still remains intact. And of course there can be various examples of wear and tear at the top and bottom of the staples, such as what you often see on Warren mags, where the staple is tight but the surrounding paper is torn, thus causing the staple to sink inward. 

For me, being the one that truly "pops" a staple on a high grade vintage book is one of the most unforgettable experiences you can have. And I still have the nightmares...  

 

That's pretty much what I thought. I was confused because I saw this photo and went all Pontius Pilate: "I find no fault with this staple." Seems solid. Seems attached. Which is why I asked for a back cover photo. Well, then the pop must be on the back cover. Could it be the pressing pushed the staple through the back cover?

In fact - to address your comment concerning the pop through of vintage staples - I have a raw Superman 22 which is probably a 6.5 maybe 7.0. When I bought it about ten years ago, I considered getting it slabbed but thought a pressing would be a good idea first.  When I researched pressing, I read about the dangers of staple popping in old comics. Didn't want to risk it, so I never did it. There it sits in its raw glory. I would not want to hear that sound. Or see a popped staple on that book.

[The Lions Den]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:38 PM, Randall Ries said:

Could it be the pressing pushed the staple through the back cover?

Yes, pressing can increase the possibility of popping a staple. I think you were wise to keep your Supe 22 in its original state. 

And my suspicion with this book is that it was pressed, but what actually occurred to the staple is still a question mark in my mind. If it really does have a "popped staple", it should have been Qualified (or downgraded) but I see no evidence of that. For instance, if it was meant to be Qualified, there should be a note on the label in capitals that reads "COVER DETACHED FROM TOP STAPLE" or something to that effect.

But the fact that it still remains a Universal 9.0 makes me think that someone made a mistake here, and that usually falls on the pre-grader. If the cover is really detached, either the label or the grade should reflect that... 

[Randall Ries]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:58 PM, The Lions Den said:

Yes, pressing can increase the possibility of popping a staple. I think you were wise to keep your Supe 22 in its original state. 

And my suspicion with this book is that it was pressed, but what actually occurred to the staple is still a question mark in my mind. If it really does have a "popped staple", it should have been Qualified (or downgraded) but I see no evidence of that. For instance, if it was meant to be Qualified, there should be a note on the label in capitals that reads "COVER DETACHED FROM TOP STAPLE" or something to that effect.

But the fact that it still remains a Universal 9.0 makes me think that someone made a mistake here, and that usually falls on the pre-grader. If the cover is really detached, either the label or the grade should reflect that... 

That's initially what I thought. I saw no evidence of a popped staple. Maybe someone goofed in the grading notes but the staple hasn't popped from the cover. Maybe they meant popped in the colloquial sense. Like all the kids say: "Wow Ma-a-a-a-an! Those colors really POP! Those Honey Bunches of O's really POP! Last night, those fireworks really POPPED!" Maybe the grader was stunned by the aesthetic of that particular staple.

I just see zero evidence of any damage or paper damage. So maybe it's exactly what it should be. A 9.0. Books get the wrong labels sometimes. Maybe this one got nother books grader notes attached by accident.

[jimjum12]

On 12/27/2021 at 10:09 PM, Randall Ries said:

That's initially what I thought. I saw no evidence of a popped staple. Maybe someone goofed in the grading notes but the staple hasn't popped from the cover. Maybe they meant popped in the colloquial sense. Like all the kids say: "Wow Ma-a-a-a-an! Those colors really POP! Those Honey Bunches of O's really POP! Last night, those fireworks really POPPED!" Maybe the grader was stunned by the aesthetic of that particular staple.

I just see zero evidence of any damage or paper damage. So maybe it's exactly what it should be. A 9.0. Books get the wrong labels sometimes. Maybe this one got nother books grader notes attached by accident.

The phrase "popped staple" could have migrated from the previous submission due to a software glitch. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[jharvey]

On 12/27/2021 at 8:38 PM, Randall Ries said:

Seems solid. Seems attached. Which is why I asked for a back cover photo. Well, then the pop must be on the back cover. Could it be the pressing pushed the staple through the back cover?

 

 

[Randall Ries]

On 12/28/2021 at 7:56 AM, jharvey said:

 

I really can't see anything wrong with this book or its staple. It does pose an interesting dilemma, though. What if my theory is correct about "If we can get wrong labels, why can't we get grader notes that belong to another book"? I have read in the forums where people are convinced they have gotten the wrong book back. Certainly the images indicated the possibility.

So, what is a po' boy to do? If jharvey wants to sell this book and the grader notes are accessible to all, I assume all a potential buyer has to do is use the ID number on the label and look them up. Providing the potential buyer has an account. Even if nothing is wrong with the book, it will still get passed over by someone who thinks there is damage to the book. Is jharvey supposed to list the book with its grader notes now?

The other theory I have is this book has a top staple that never made it through to the back cover. Where the staple is positioned in the front, wouldn't it make sense that we would see some vacated staple holes on the back cover? Perhaps the grade is correct. It's a manufacturing error and therefore gets the blue 9.0.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Randall Ries

[Randall Ries]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:07 AM, Randall Ries said:

*

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Randall Ries

[jimjum12]

The partially detached staple could also be occurring at the centerfold , where the staple never made it all the way through the book.... either missing the center spread entirely or just penetrating part way, sometimes only one prong of the staple.. I see that happen regularly. It's production related and should probably be allowed at 9.0. That would make more sense. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

... NEVERMIND..... the notes say top back cover....

Edited December 28, 2021 by jimjum12

[The Lions Den]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:45 AM, jimjum12 said:

The partially detached staple could also be occurring at the centerfold , where the staple never made it all the way through the book.... either missing the center spread entirely or just penetrating part way, sometimes only one prong of the staple.. I see that happen regularly. It's production related and should probably be allowed at 9.0. That would make more sense. GOD BLESS...

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

... NEVERMIND..... the notes say top back cover....

And for whatever reason, this thread seems to have influenced my dreams last night. Surprisingly, no popped staples were involved, but I did dream that I found a Silver Age variant of Fantastic Four #3---even the interior was different. (Still had King Kirby art, though!)   

[jimjum12]

On 12/28/2021 at 1:05 PM, The Lions Den said:

And for whatever reason, this thread seems to have influenced my dreams last night. Surprisingly, no popped staples were involved, but I did dream that I found a Silver Age variant of Fantastic Four #3---even the interior was different. (Still had King Kirby art, though!)   

My comic dream always involves driving through some back roads and discovering a General Store that still has Ditko ASMs available at cover ... I always wake up when I'm trying to choose the nicest ASM 7 ...GOD BLESS....

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)