But.... Isn't pressing a form of restoration ?? 3 3

[joeypost]

On 7/14/2022 at 11:37 AM, mdean2437 said:

If you have time and the inclination I would appreciate and educated opinion on...

There is a book on  that claims, blue light (cover and lage whitening), water cleaning and peroxide (if u rebalance the PH) cleaning can all be done with blue label. These methods supposedly remove foxing, and sundhadows.

Is the book a troll or is the information correct? I can send a link to the book in question if needed.

 

If water cleaning is okay I'd imagine peroxide is too, just because it breaks down to.... 

I just can't imagine I see all of this foxing and sunshadows but there is a solution.

 

That said I'm ignorant, so WTF do I know

 

 

 

 

 

 

It makes sense that peroxide would remove certain defects like dust shadows and tanning. But and this is the important part, since it is a bleaching agent it will affect the hydrogen bonds holding the paper together. The same with the blue light. It is using certain frequencies that will lighten the defects mentioned earlier. Again, we all know the affect even ambient light will have on fading the true colors of the inks used in the printing process. Short term improvements may not outweigh long term damage. Not sure if any long-term studies have been performed on these techniques on paper, but living in Florida I understand fully the affects UV light would have on anything not color fast.

[mdean2437]

On 7/14/2022 at 10:55 AM, joeypost said:

It makes sense that peroxide would remove certain defects like dust shadows and tanning. But and this is the important part, since it is a bleaching agent it will affect the hydrogen bonds holding the paper together. The same with the blue light. It is using certain frequencies that will lighten the defects mentioned earlier. Again, we all know the affect even ambient light will have on fading the true colors of the inks used in the printing process. Short term improvements may not outweigh long term damage. Not sure if any long-term studies have been performed on these techniques on paper, but living in Florida I understand fully the affects UV light would have on anything not color fast.

Thank you for your response.  That sucks, there are probably a bunch of potentially damaged comics out there. Good to know. Sounds like stringent testing in in a controlled environment is needed. I hope CGC does or a professional like you does it. Just not sure who would pay you

I got $5 on it! 

[KirbyTown]

On 7/14/2022 at 10:37 AM, mdean2437 said:

Is the book a troll or is the information correct?

If it's the person I'm thinking of then that person is a complete amateur and I would not trust them or their advice. That person also seems to have little self-awareness and is a horrible communicator. But let me tell you how I really feel 😜

There is someone out there who does have a great scientific approach to all of these subjects in the context of comic books, and I can tell you about that via PM if interested.

Edited July 14, 2022 by KirbyTown

[Comic-Fan]

Tough call, I'd call pressing restoration in the most loose sense.  No, the book wasn't soaked in methyl cellulose to clean it, had the staples replaced or trimmed.  However, the bottom line is you've improved a books appearance and most certainly increased it's value.  I don't see it as a downfall as I've owned pressed books.  Sure, I'll flip a book over and search for ripples; the most telling way to see if a books been pressed or not?  At the end of the day it's not comprehensive restoration and I don't believe CGC needs to notate it.  

[KirbyTown]

(I caused some confusion with this post so deleted it 👍)

Edited July 14, 2022 by KirbyTown

[THE_BEYONDER]

On 1/21/2022 at 3:39 PM, Wheresmymarvelvaluestamp said:

In my experience talking to the people that are anti-pressing I have found that they are just butt hurt that other people are maximizing a book's value. They can easily do the same thing but it usually comes down to money and drive. Submitting books is a pain in the for sure and the turnaround times are awful. But I bet if one of these people tried it where they found a bargain book and were able to bump the grade several points they would be hooked. Finding raw books and increasing their value is one of the things I find the most fun. Looking at a book in my hand saying I can fix this or that is exciting. However, it is not for everybody and it is their decision.

That’s a seriously broad brush.

[Buzzetta]

On 7/14/2022 at 2:28 PM, Ice Cream Bunny said:

How can you notate something that can't be detected? 

[FFB]

On 1/23/2022 at 9:11 AM, Quicksilver Signs said:

Trimming should not be considered restoration but rather get a huge decrease in grade -  blue label with trimming noted. 
 

green labels should not exist imo 

[PovertyRow]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:03 AM, Wheresmymarvelvaluestamp said:

Definitely disagree. If you iron a t-shirt, did you restore it? No, it is the same used t-shirt with less wrinkles. Now if you use foreign chemicals such as solvents or use color touch I would definitely consider that restoration because the actual comic has changed. Removing wrinkles did not change the consistency of the comic. Tape is borderline in my opinion. CGC considers tape not restoration as tape usually just holds the original pieces together. I honestly could go either way on tape because it is a foreign material.

BUT a collectible t-shirt that has not been washed and has the original store tags are worth more.

[PovertyRow]

On 1/21/2022 at 9:52 AM, MattTheDuck said:

Is pressing an attempt to "restore" the book to a previous condition?  You could argue it is, but plenty of comics are probably in better shape after a press than they were on the newsstand.  This hobby tends to use words in ways that don't necessarily meet their accepted definitions.

I wonder if we don't need a different word for the goal or end result of some of these things.

You have to forget "newsstand" and take it a bit further back to "just off the line". The acts of bundling/loading/transporting unbundling etc. all take a toll. A well pressed book can reflect "pre-distribution" condition.

[PovertyRow]

On 1/21/2022 at 12:41 PM, shadroch said:

 

CGC's inability to detect all pressing doesn't excuse them not noting it when they are aware of it. 

To my mind CGC stating certain books are pressed when they are aware of it implies any book without such a notation can be considered unpressed. It is a slippery slope.

[evilskip]

mycomicshop.com lists books with covers that have been cleaned as restored.

[Mr. Zipper]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:42 PM, evilskip said:

mycomicshop.com lists books with covers that have been cleaned as restored.

Bear in mind there are several ways to clean a cover. The two primary ways are dry cleaning (eraser, cloth wipe, etc.), and wet cleaning (a solvent application or bath where the cover may be removed.)

Wet cleaning should be noted because it is considered restoration by most collectors and CGC. Wet cleaning can often leave tell tale signs like altered cover texture, signs of cover removal, etc.

Dry cleaning, if done properly, is not detectable.

That said, aggressive and improper dry cleaning that leaves erasure marks and color loss will get the flaws noted in the grader notes and downgraded accordingly.

[Randall Dowling]

On 7/19/2022 at 4:52 PM, PovertyRow said:

On 1/21/2022 at 2:41 PM, shadroch said:

 

CGC's inability to detect all pressing doesn't excuse them not noting it when they are aware of it. 

To my mind CGC stating certain books are pressed when they are aware of it implies any book without such a notation can be considered unpressed. It is a slippery slope.

And yet, this is exactly their position on trimming. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by Randall Dowling

[shadroch]

On 7/19/2022 at 2:52 PM, PovertyRow said:

To my mind CGC stating certain books are pressed when they are aware of it implies any book without such a notation can be considered unpressed. It is a slippery slope.

Then they shouldn't put themselves in the pressing business.

[KirbyTown]

On 7/25/2022 at 7:56 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

Wet cleaning should be noted because it is considered restoration by most collectors and CGC. Wet cleaning can often leave tell tale signs like altered cover texture, signs of cover removal, etc.

It's true that there are liquid restoration techniques, but wet cleaning itself (e.g. using water to clean dirt off of a comic book cover) is purely subtractive just like dry cleaning. When done correctly, and in combination with pressing, it is also undetectable just like dry cleaning.

Wetness on a book does affect the paper, yes, but comics are rarely made wet without the understanding that they'll be getting pressed at some point after.

Edited July 26, 2022 by KirbyTown

[PovertyRow]

 

On 7/25/2022 at 6:19 PM, shadroch said:

On 7/19/2022 at 2:52 PM, PovertyRow said:

To my mind CGC stating certain books are pressed when they are aware of it implies any book without such a notation can be considered unpressed. It is a slippery slope.

Then they shouldn't put themselves in the pressing business.

I agree about it being a bad move to put themselves in the pressing biz, but I'm also not sure how that is relevant to the concept that any book without a pressing notation can be considered unpressed. 

[PovertyRow]

On 7/25/2022 at 6:14 PM, Randall Dowling said:

And yet, this is exactly their position on trimming. 

Ultimately it seems to be their position on resto in general. In 2002 I asked why they use the term "restoration includes" but no reply from CGC. Best board member comment I saw was it gives them some "wiggle room". 

[lou_fine]

On 1/22/2022 at 11:02 AM, Randall Dowling said:

AND, if they did start calling out all the bad pressing being done, it could clear out all the amateurs and leave only professionals who know what they're doing.  

You do realize that they would never ever do this because they would then have to close down the CCS cash cow side of their CCG business operations now that Matt is no longer handling that side of the business.    

Edited July 26, 2022 by lou_fine

[G-MANIII]

On 1/21/2022 at 5:40 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

BTW... I have nothing against pressing. I get it done selectively. I have used Joe G and Mike DeChellis with good results. 

What concerns me is that every fly by night Tom, and Harry has hung out a pressing shingle and many of them are incompetents. There are a zillion of them on Facebook. They are frying and squashing books. I buy books on eBay and they arrive like overdone waffles. 

 

Are these books that you buy on eBay slabbed or raw? Thanks 🙏