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Burly Tim Burton
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Started by Randall Ries,

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Randall Ries

Randall Ries

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On 2/2/2022 at 7:57 PM, Timely said:

So, who would you have chosen as the roll of Batman when it was cast in 1987-88? 

Truthfully? With that -script? No one. At the time, Pierce Brosnan. Michael Pare, if he could lose the Brooklyn accent. Tom Selleck? Kurt Russell? Ray Liotta? Charlie Sheen?

They considered Bill Murray as well. Just to illustrate how far off they were willing to go off the rails. I can say from someone who was actually there, NO ONE wanted Michael Keaton. It made NO SENSE. Everyone wanted Nicholson, of course. That was everyone's choice before it was cast. Others couldn't figure out why Pat Hungle as Gordon? He bore some resemblance to the 'Tec 27 Gordon. But Gordon could have been cast better.

Simply put, they wanted to sell toys and fast food. T-shirts. The whole 9 yards. They pretty much ignored the hard core fans and wanted Batman '66 with a little low lighting scenery.

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djzombi

djzombi

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On 2/2/2022 at 8:41 PM, Randall Ries said:


Simply put, they wanted to sell toys and fast food. T-shirts. The whole 9 yards. They pretty much ignored the hard core fans and wanted Batman '66 with a little low lighting scenery.

Hyperbole much?  
Burton's Batman was so UN-family-friendly that he was booted off the franchise so Warners could make more money in merchandising, after the merchandise tie-ins for the first movie were so successful.  This contradicts your statement that Burton was catering to toys and (ironically, as McDonald's is often blamed for putting the final nail in Burton's Batman 3) fast food.  

to wit:


In the run-up to Batman Returns' release, Warner Bros' had doubled down on the 1989 original's success by bringing in an unprecedented number of merchandising and commercial partners. As reported by the LATimes reported in 1992, the key partners were McDonald's, Diet Coke, and Choice Hotels with an astonishing 120 product tie-ins planned including "talking toothbrushes, roller skates, and, naturally, T-shirts... boxer shorts, sunglasses and throw pillows... beach towels, beanbag chairs, weightlifting gloves and, yes, mugs." Nothing on that scale had really been considered before. That meant a huge responsibility on the movie to try and move merchandise for the partners who'd paid licensing fees, and with partners like McDonald's banking on Returns being a family movie, it all backfired very quickly. As Burton himself put it: "I think I upset McDonald's. [They asked] ‘What’s that black stuff coming out of the Penguin’s mouth. We can’t sell Happy Meals with that!’"
 

They weren't the only ones offended or put out by Burton's creative vision. Toy companies had to be appeased by a claim that marketing would be reliant on the release of Batman: The Animated Series, and actual movie tie-in toys are conspicuous by their absence from that run of releases. Kenner simply released a line of Batman figures with absolutely no link to Returns, despite advertising claiming they were indeed tie-is. Problematically for Warner Bros, who had to answer to their partners - including McDonald's who were being castigated by Christian organizations for their association with the movie - the key license holders had plowed an almighty $60 million into TV advertising, roughly three times as much as WB spent on marketing the movie itself.

McDonald's had ignored Kenner's approach to avoiding specific links to Batman Returns and transformed their restaurants into Gotham City, running a commercial campaign that merrily sang "it's Batman time at McDonald's" and proving to anyone who subsequently saw the movie how little they knew of Burton's vision. Batman Returns screenwriter, Daniel Waters  - who had been a big part of Burton's commentary on freaks - told 2005 documentary Shadow of the Bat – Part 4: Dark Side of the Knight that watching early screenings made it obvious there was a huge disparity in expectations and what was delivered at an audience level too. “It’s great. The lights are coming up after Batman Returns, and it’s like kids crying, people acting like they’ve been punched in the stomach, and like they’ve been mugged. Part of me relished that reaction, and part of me to this day is like, ‘Oops.’”

source:  What Tim Burton's Batman 3 Would've Looked Like (& Why It Didn't Happen) (screenrant.com)

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djzombi

djzombi

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On 2/2/2022 at 9:19 PM, Beastfeast said:

I'm also trying to wrap my memory around that bank.  I'm almost sure I had it but have no memory of being shrink wrapped to a box of cereal. 

Perhaps a problem with your....memory banks?  
:insane:

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Randall Ries

Randall Ries

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On 2/2/2022 at 8:55 PM, djzombi said:

Hyperbole much?  
Burton's Batman was so UN-family-friendly that he was booted off the franchise so Warners could make more money in merchandising, after the merchandise tie-ins for the first movie were so successful.  This contradicts your statement that Burton was catering to toys and (ironically, as McDonald's is often blamed for putting the final nail in Burton's Batman 3) fast food.  

to wit:


In the run-up to Batman Returns' release, Warner Bros' had doubled down on the 1989 original's success by bringing in an unprecedented number of merchandising and commercial partners. As reported by the LATimes reported in 1992, the key partners were McDonald's, Diet Coke, and Choice Hotels with an astonishing 120 product tie-ins planned including "talking toothbrushes, roller skates, and, naturally, T-shirts... boxer shorts, sunglasses and throw pillows... beach towels, beanbag chairs, weightlifting gloves and, yes, mugs." Nothing on that scale had really been considered before. That meant a huge responsibility on the movie to try and move merchandise for the partners who'd paid licensing fees, and with partners like McDonald's banking on Returns being a family movie, it all backfired very quickly. As Burton himself put it: "I think I upset McDonald's. [They asked] ‘What’s that black stuff coming out of the Penguin’s mouth. We can’t sell Happy Meals with that!’"
 

They weren't the only ones offended or put out by Burton's creative vision. Toy companies had to be appeased by a claim that marketing would be reliant on the release of Batman: The Animated Series, and actual movie tie-in toys are conspicuous by their absence from that run of releases. Kenner simply released a line of Batman figures with absolutely no link to Returns, despite advertising claiming they were indeed tie-is. Problematically for Warner Bros, who had to answer to their partners - including McDonald's who were being castigated by Christian organizations for their association with the movie - the key license holders had plowed an almighty $60 million into TV advertising, roughly three times as much as WB spent on marketing the movie itself.

McDonald's had ignored Kenner's approach to avoiding specific links to Batman Returns and transformed their restaurants into Gotham City, running a commercial campaign that merrily sang "it's Batman time at McDonald's" and proving to anyone who subsequently saw the movie how little they knew of Burton's vision. Batman Returns screenwriter, Daniel Waters  - who had been a big part of Burton's commentary on freaks - told 2005 documentary Shadow of the Bat – Part 4: Dark Side of the Knight that watching early screenings made it obvious there was a huge disparity in expectations and what was delivered at an audience level too. “It’s great. The lights are coming up after Batman Returns, and it’s like kids crying, people acting like they’ve been punched in the stomach, and like they’ve been mugged. Part of me relished that reaction, and part of me to this day is like, ‘Oops.’”

source:  What Tim Burton's Batman 3 Would've Looked Like (& Why It Didn't Happen) (screenrant.com)

Exactly. Burton never should have been hired to direct a Batman film. Certainly not 2. And yes. I hyperbole a lot. I find it soothing.

Who should have directed it? I would have went with Sam Peckinpah if he wasn't dead already. My 1st choice would have been John Waters. Or Martin Scorsese. Stanley Kubrick. Michael Haneke. Anyone but Burton. He was on a Beetlejuice high and that's why we saw Keaton as well.

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october

october

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On 2/2/2022 at 8:26 PM, Randall Ries said:

Exactly. Burton never should have been hired to direct a Batman film. Certainly not 2. And yes. I hyperbole a lot. I find it soothing.

Who should have directed it? I would have went with Sam Peckinpah if he wasn't dead already. My 1st choice would have been John Waters. Or Martin Scorsese. Stanley Kubrick. Michael Haneke. Anyone but Burton. He was on a Beetlejuice high and that's why we saw Keaton as well.

Combining your two posts...you think John Waters directing a Batman movie starring Ray Liota would have been better? doh!

Actually, I'd watch the hell out of that.

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Randall Ries

Randall Ries

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On 2/2/2022 at 10:03 PM, szav said:

What's your favorite scene from the movie?  As I think back on it there really are a lot of great scenes from this movie, and in the context of the 1980s, and what had ever been seen in a comic book movie to this point there was just so much that was novel and cutting edge.

This is one of my favorite parts, great humor too,,, unfortunately it cuts off the "you weight a little more than 108 lbs" punchline.  The ninja esque dual katana wielding thug, and Batman using martial arts to fight him off...that didn't exist in the universe of campy comic book hero movies before this I don't think.  I remember being amazed by it at the time.  Still looks pretty cool.

 

I don't have a favorite scene.

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