UK editions 3 3

[Bayowolf]

Are UK editions of silver age especially mid 1960s, are worth the same as US edition? 

[themagicrobot]

Do you mean UK price variants? Have you any specific example in mind? DC UK price variants appeared in the 1970s. Only a handful of people here collect/appreciate King comics so as you mention the mid 1960s in particular I assume you are referring to Marvel Comics.

As they are ten times scarecer than cents variants then grade for grade they ought to be worth more.

  

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/7/2022 at 3:16 AM, Bayowolf said:

Are UK editions of silver age especially mid 1960s, are worth the same as US edition? 

Hello Bayowolf, I got a notification from Robot's linking of my thread, so thought I'd chip in.

My two-penneth, heh heh, is that it depends on the book. For Marvel, if the book is a key, a desirable issue, then I'm seeing pence copies compete very favourably lately. It's hard to give a broad opinion across the piece because prices are so volatile now anyway, but the days of pence copies being the poor cousin, worth 50% or so less, seem to be well and truly over. Which is good and just, I think. Keys and important issues are approaching parity now, but non-keys are still lagging a little behind for obvious reasons.

There are some recent examples of pence copies actually selling for more than the highest cents equivalent sale - WWBN #32 being one that springs to mind, and an ASM #1, if I recall correctly - and all the first appearances are on fire, it seems. Probably why there are so few of them! That was a joke.

The print ratio for Marvel in the 1960's is not known - well, to me, at least - but the accepted rule of thumb seems to be between 2 and 10%, so the pence copies are comparatively scarce on that basis. In my experience, the earlier the book, the harder it is to find as a pence copy in any great number. You can imagine therefore that, as word gets around, and there is more interest in sky-rocketing comic prices, that the pence copies would start to pick up as collectors see them as a favourable extension to collecting. And that is what I think is now happening. I've done my best here and elsewhere to promote the fullest understanding of what pence copies actually are, notably that they are first printings and therefore have equal status. I seem to have had a hand in getting CGC to call them 'UK Price Variants' too, as opposed to the horribly misleading 'UK Edition'. Maybe that has helped a bit, as word gets around and false perceptions are slowly corrected.

Hope that helps - by all means post an example of the books you have in mind and we'll take a punt on comparative current value. 

 

[Get Marwood & I]

As an aside, here's a high level table I put together a while back which shows the seven US publishers and the years that their UK Price Variants exist (by cover date). As you can see, only Marvel had a consistent pence run (give or take a few gaps) from 1960, when UK Price Variants first appeared, to their demise in 1982 (the result of dual pricing). Click on it to make it bigger:

 

[Bayowolf]

I'm thinking of early X-Men UK price variants (in the 5 to 30 range, 1964 to 1967) .The only thing different on the cover appears to be the price which is 10d instead of 12c.

Thanks.

[Bayowolf]

Here is an example.

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:24 PM, Bayowolf said:

I'm thinking of early X-Men UK price variants (in the 5 to 30 range, 1964 to 1967) .The only thing different on the cover appears to be the price which is 10d instead of 12c.

Thanks.

I summarise the differences here Bayo:

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:28 PM, Bayowolf said:

Here is an example.

Nice.

A cents copy with white pages sold for $2,040 at the end of 2021. It'll be interesting to see how this OWP pence copy fares. Notwithstanding everything I've said, in auctions it all depends who's looking, on the day.

Maybe some other members who have access to GPA will be able to add more on comparable sales for X-Men of this era.

 

[Bluemedgroup]

Collectors seem to value the original real deal.  Hence, the US editions are most desirable. 

As with all collectibles its about supply AND demand.  Even if there is a rare supply of Pence copies, if the demand is not there, the desirability won't be either.  

That being said, Pence variants are becoming more known in the community and I can see them catching up to equal value as the original American printing.  

A few years ago, similar thing happened to Canadian Price variants.  They were originally not that desirable and would go for less, but now that more knowledge is understood about how rare they are (along with resulting demand), some CPV's are now selling for more than US editions.  

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/7/2022 at 3:18 PM, Bluemedgroup said:

As with all collectibles its about supply AND demand.

Spot on Bluemed. I own some of the rarest UK Price Variants known - and they aren't worth sh for that very reason. Near zero supply. Near zero demand! 

[Bayowolf]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:18 AM, Bluemedgroup said:

Collectors seem to value the original real deal.  Hence, the US editions are most desirable. 

As with all collectibles its about supply AND demand.  Even if there is a rare supply of Pence copies, if the demand is not there, the desirability won't be either.  

That being said, Pence variants are becoming more known in the community and I can see them catching up to equal value as the original American printing.  

A few years ago, similar thing happened to Canadian Price variants.  They were originally not that desirable and would go for less, but now that more knowledge is understood about how rare they are (along with resulting demand), some CPV's are now selling for more than US editions.  

I am confused.. Blumedgroup says since thy are rare and there is a resulting demand so now they are worth a lot But GetMarwood&1  says rare UKprice variants "aren't worth sh for that very reason. Near zero supply. Near zero demand!"  If there is a low supply why isnt there demand?

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/7/2022 at 5:27 PM, Bayowolf said:

I am confused.. Blumedgroup says since thy are rare and there is a resulting demand so now they are worth a lot But GetMarwood&1  says rare UKprice variants "aren't worth sh for that very reason. Near zero supply. Near zero demand!"  If there is a low supply why isnt there demand?

 

I was half jesting in my reply to Bluemed. The Marvel keys and significant books are doing well, as I said. But some non-Marvel UK Price Variants (DC, Dell etc) and some later Marvel UKPVs still have much lower interest and value comparative to their cents copies. 

Your X-Men #14 is a significant book, so under normal circumstances I would expect it to do well compared to a cents equivalent. We'll find out soon, on that particular book.

[themagicrobot]

Quote

I am confused.. Blumedgroup says since thy are rare and there is a resulting demand so now they are worth a lot But GetMarwood&1  says rare UKprice variants "aren't worth sh for that very reason. Near zero supply. Near zero demand!"  If there is a low supply why isnt there demand?

Why confused? There are comics everyone would love to own and there are comics you can't give away (I know, I've tried) Everyone may aspire to an ASM No1 but not everyone is desperate for a tatty Gunsmoke Western even if it is from 1961. And he probably isn't even referring to Marvel comics. The total number of Dell UK price variant collectors on the planet (also including Venus and Mars) amounts to one person.

Quote

Collectors seem to value the original real deal.

Depends which side of the pond you're on as to what is real and what isn't

Edited February 7, 2022 by themagicrobot

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/7/2022 at 7:49 PM, themagicrobot said:

The total number of Dell UK price variant collectors on the planet (also including Venus and Mars) amounts to one person.

I think that might be me.

[themagicrobot]

@getmarwood&I

I know one of your pleasures in life is catching me out so here's one back at you. Time to spell the Lsd currency that purchased some of the bestest comics of the late 1960s/early 1970s correctly don't you think?  We aren't German.

 

[Bluemedgroup]

On 2/7/2022 at 11:27 AM, Bayowolf said:

I am confused.. Blumedgroup says since thy are rare and there is a resulting demand so now they are worth a lot But GetMarwood&1  says rare UKprice variants "aren't worth sh for that very reason. Near zero supply. Near zero demand!"  If there is a low supply why isnt there demand?

 

Like I said earlier, rare or low supply doesn't necessarily translate to desirability.  

Example, I can sell you a 1 out of 1 finger painting done by my 3 year old son. Its a limited edition, a rare original art piece for only $500.  Low supply!!  If you believe in spec, it could be a famous art piece someday!  

And then for the truth, zero demand means aint no one gonna pay for that finger painting, not even his grandparents lol.  

 

[Get Marwood & I]

On 2/7/2022 at 8:41 PM, themagicrobot said:

@getmarwood&I

I know one of your pleasures in life is catching me out so here's one back at you. Time to spell the Lsd currency that purchased some of the bestest comics of the late 1960s/early 1970s correctly don't you think?  We aren't German.

 

 

Hoppla 

[Pantodude]

On 2/6/2022 at 10:16 PM, Bayowolf said:

Are UK editions of silver age especially mid 1960s, are worth the same as US edition? 

Just to add to what has already been said.  Results vary but have improved in recent years  It's at least somewhat akin to the initial lack of appreciation for the 35-cent price variants and newsstand editions. Back then, the newsstand covers were thought to be uglier and avoided.  The internet also has stories explaining how folks routinely ignored the 35-cent price variants back in the day.    

If talking about slabs, and looking only at the few recent UKPV sales (on GPA) of early SA keys that sold shortly after a CENTS sale in same grade, results were really all over the place.  We saw UKPVs fetch the same or more, sometimes a lot more, than their cents counterparts:  

XM #14:  Your specific example is an X-Men #14 in CGC 8.5:   No recent comparison for 8.5, but a 7.5 cents sold for $1600 on 10/12/21, followed by a UKPV 7.5 for $1710 on 10/31/21.  

ASM #4
7.5:  cents =  $5850 on 12/1/21;  UKPV = $7200 on 2/6/22 (record high for 7.5 cents version = $6200).
2.5:  cents = $1140 on 10/3/21; UKPV = $1146 on 11/19/21 

ASM #13
3.0:  cents = $900 on 12/26/21 (and $957 on 1/31/22); UKPV = $950 on 1/23/22 

FF #1 
No recent 3.5 cents, but 4.0 cents = $25855 on 1/24/22
3.5 UKPV = $22200 on 2/6/22 

JIM #83
3.5:   cents =  $13767 on 9/29/21 (and $13250 in Jan2022); UKPV = $13995 on 11/22/21 

XM #4:  X-men issues are a bit tricky b/c they trended down last few months.  But in mid-2021, an X-Men #4 cents in 6.0 sold for $5650 on 5/20/21 (the record  high for a 6.0), while a UKPV sold for $5485 on 5/28/21, almost matching it.

XM #6
7.0:  cents = $850 on 11/12/21 (and $780 on 1/31/22); UKPV = $1350 on 1/14/22 

Here’s a Bronze Age example, since WWBN #32 was also referenced above, with some very strong UKPV sales:  
9.4: cents = $4K on 12/18/20 and 12/20/20; UKPV = $13535 on 12/27/20 [this is an OLD result, but it raised a lot of eyebrows when it happened, so I made an exception]
7.5: cents = $3K on 1/26/22; UKPV = $2431 on 1/27/22
7.0: cents = $2700 on 9/7/21; UKPV = $2700 on 9/25/21 
6.0: cents = $1400 on 11/22/21; UKPV = $2500 on 12/23/21
5.5: cents = $1675 on 7/25/21 and $2K on 8/7/21; UKPV = $1526 on 8/16/21
2.5:  cents = $1000 on 10/17/21 and $795 on 10/24/21; UKPV =  $900 on 10/12/21
1.8:  cents = $787 on 10/11/21; UKPV = $727 on 12/9/21

But we also saw UKPVs fetch less than their cents counterparts, like 5-25% less, but sometimes 40% or more less:   

ASM #3
7.0:  cents = $15600 on 1/9/22; UKPV = $7200 on 2/6/22

ASM #6
7.0:  cents = $2880 on 1/30/22; UKPV = $2280 on 2/6/22 

ASM #15
5.0:  cents = $2150 on 12/30/31; UKPV = $2032 on 1/2/22
3.0:  cents = $1075 on 12/6/21 (and $730 on 1/20/22); UKPV = $770 on 12/12/21

ASM #14
4.0:  cents = $2900 on 1/8/22;  UKPV = $2K and $1700 on 1/9/22 

Avengers #4
4.5:  cents = $2280 on 1/23/22; UKPV = $1350 on 1/27/22 

Daredevil #1
3.5:  cents = 5K on 12/18/21; UKPV = $4K on 12/20/21 

FF #48

2.5:  cents = $1559 on 1/9/22; UKPV = $1204 on 1/27/22

IH #1
3.0:  cents = $25K on 12/22/21; UKPV = $20400 on 2/6/22.

TOS #52

7.0:  cents = $2640 on 11/8/21; UKPV = $1600 on 12/11/21.

So there's a snapshot.  Time will tell whether UKPVs will experience a consistent trend like 35-cent price variants and newsstands enjoy today, but their relative scarcity suggests they should.  Anyway, a rising tide lifts all boats, so if the issue appreciates, the cents and pence both will, too.     

[Bayowolf]

Great research Pantodude!

BTW that UK #14 X-Men 8.5 CGC just went for $1320 (with the BP) on Heritage. Too much for me.

It was a very nice looking 8.5. Much better looking than the #15 UK CGC 8.5 that went for $660.

A #18 X-Men UK 7.0 CGC was a mere $159. 

[alexgross.com]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:19 AM, themagicrobot said:

Do you mean UK price variants? Have you any specific example in mind? DC UK price variants appeared in the 1970s. Only a handful of people here collect/appreciate King comics so as you mention the mid 1960s in particular I assume you are referring to Marvel Comics.

As they are ten times scarecer than cents variants then grade for grade they ought to be worth more.

  

being ten times rarer than US cents copies isn't very meaningful without discussion of the demand for such books. after all there are incredibly scarce comics out there worth very little due to almost no demand. 

the latest heritage auction had several SA pence key books like ff5, asm3, asm4, hulk1. while they sold for less than their cents counterparts have recently been selling for (asm3 went for 7k vs 15k gpa for cents copy), it was the strongest showing i've seen for pence copies maybe ever. interest in these books appears to have risen recently!