Label Modifications

[action1kid]

Thats what i believe too.

[Timulty]

Regarding the deacification section - Does anyone know how this affects the book from an appearance standpoint? How detectible is it and how does it change the overall properties of a book?

 

CGC is asking us to debate wether a book that has been deacidified should be universal or apparent, so I'd like to be more informed on the issue.

 

It generally is just a spray. I don't think it is able to be seen. It doesn't smell and doesn't mark the book. I have never used it though and it is very expensive (around $4 an ounce)

 

According to the Photo Journal Guide, it can take brown pages and make them yellow. Unfortunately, it can take white pages and make them yellow. Of course, this is in the copy published in the early 90's, so that might not be true today.

[awe4one]

I don't have the time to read this complete thread so excuse me if this has already been mentioned...

 

If CGC goes ahead with this "label modification" they have essentially written off the new collector...

 

The new labels overcomplicate CGC's rather simple designation model of the past. Now there are additional numbers a collector has to wade through in regards to restoration that in the past was cut and dried with the old color scheme. Now...any new collectors' of CGC slabs has a new, rather confusing additional numbering system, to decipher before buying a new slab. Before, if a collector wanted to avoid restored comic it was rather simple. Purple labels were taboo. Now they have to wade through an added numbering system, on slabs whose color schemes and information was previously relatively easy to understand, to determine whether a comic meets their collecting thresholds. The change will cause more collectors to either shy away from slabs altogether or get out of the hobby completely.

 

This isn't a technical hobby...CGC has been listening to people on this Forum a little too much in my opinion and has lost sight of the grander collecting profession in implementing this change. A change that does nothing for the common collector but is only seen as effective and positive by the most knowledgeable in the hobby. If that's CGC's goal, then I hope they appreciate the rapidly dwindling submissions this change will cause...

 

Jim

[Forbush-Man]

Joe,

 

That's a simplistic answer. What Jon was saying, and I agree with him, is that a book with slight (P) restoration should sell for more than a book with moderate (P), which in turn would sell for more than a book with extensive (P) restoration. He adds to stay away from Ametuer restoration.

 

A scarce or rare book, with slight (P) restoration shouldn't be lumped together with the other two forms of restoration.

[ArAich]

The new labels overcomplicate CGC's rather simple designation model of the past.

 

I have to disagree here...I think making the labels more technical in nature make certification more precise and thus create a "this is the actual state of the book" attitude that collectors will actually embrace rather than distance themselves from...

[joe_collector]

That's a simplistic answer. What Jon was saying, and I agree with him, is that a book with slight (P) restoration should sell for more than a book with moderate (P), which in turn would sell for more than a book with extensive (P) restoration.

 

Why in the world should he CARE about what a comic sells for?

[awe4one]

The new labels overcomplicate CGC's rather simple designation model of the past.

 

I have to disagree here...I think making the labels more technical in nature make certification more precise and thus create a "this is the actual state of the book" attitude that collectors will actually embrace rather than distance themselves from...

 

To you and every other collector on this Board...but to a new collector, maybe even those investors who have driven CGC slabs through the roof, wanting a comic certified? It's now a minefield, and an associated learning curve most will be unwilling to learn, that will immediately turn them off.

 

I thought CGC was supposed to make collecting safer for the community...not complicate it by serving an ever increasing shrinking collector base...

 

Jim

[joe_collector]

I have to disagree here...I think making the labels more technical in nature make certification more precise and thus create a "this is the actual state of the book" attitude that collectors will actually embrace rather than distance themselves from...

 

Gimme a break. Jim is talking about "new collectors", who barely understand the current, rather simplistic, system. To be honest, I don't know ALL of the ramifications of the myriad potential label combinations that will present themselves under this new system, and I'm not sure anyone does.

 

So how does anyone think the average guy on the street will understand it?

[joe_collector]

I thought CGC was supposed to make collecting safer for the community...

 

They are.. for the DEALER community.

[joe_collector]

We should run a poll for the quickest newbie post of:

 

"Hi, I just paid X thousand dollars for a Blue Label CGC 9.4 copy of {insert key issue here}, but one of my buddies said I got scammed cuz it has a "Conserved" notation on it and an "Apparent" label.

 

He says it's only worth 5% of what I paid cuz it's restored, but I think he's a fool cuz there's no "Restored" on the label and it's Blue not Purple. Help!"

[awe4one]

I thought CGC was supposed to make collecting safer for the community...

 

They are.. for the DEALER community.

 

Well...they definitely don't seem to have the collector's interest in their sights...

 

Jim

[ArAich]

I thought CGC was supposed to make collecting safer for the community...not complicate it by serving an ever increasing shrinking collector base...

 

CGC is making collecting safer by fine tuning their labels with more data...yeah the colors are changing but the data will be more precise..

 

I think that if this makes a "new collector" not submit a John Carter of Mars #2 in FN condition then how can that be bad?..."new collectors" should educate themselves to some extent before submitting a book and perhaps the more technical labels will entice them to do so...if not then there are tons of "raw" books to be had on eBay that will make any collector just as happy whether they submit to CGC or not...

 

I just don't see this change as bad for new or old collectors...

[joe_collector]

Well...they definitely don't seem to have the collector's interest in their sights...

 

Obviously, as someone has convinced the CGC powers-that-be, that they no longer require the support of the general collector, as if they've moved beyond the need for us mere mortals.

 

I personally think CGC is making a mistake of epic proportions, and once this news really hits (especially after Ewert and PCS), expect several collections to go on the open market.

[BassGMan]

I haven't read the majority of this thread as this topic is actually quite boring to me. Personally I really don't care what CGC does with the new labels. It won't affect the way I buy graded books (which I admit is only a very small part of my collecting). And I really don't think it will affect the slabs that I sell either, which is my primary use for CGC. So what is the big deal? They want to change the label to suit their needs? Why not? I am really not worried about "newbies" getting burned on a small or blurry scan or photo. There are all kinds of pitfalls that a newbie collector can fall into and I won't speculate that this is another. My guess is that CGC needs to reinvent themselves every couple of years in order to generate more submissions. Maybe the needs of some collectors to resub there PLODs into new labels will do just that. More power to them. Hopefully (for CGC's sake) they will continue to "update and improve" the labels again in a couple years. After all, without being creative in generating new submissions (other than new books hitting the shelves) then they need to keep the resubs coming as even though most old books are not yet slabbed, the collectors/dealers who DO like to slab will slowly run out of books. I say good for CGC and I'm not worried about how it will affect the collecting community. Minimal at best, and not necessarily in a negative way.

[ArAich]

expect several collections to go on the open market.

 

 

and who do you suppose will buy them???...I'll tell you...Collectors...sheesh...seems like you're going around in circles here....

[awe4one]

[i just don't see this change as bad for new or old collectors...

 

Sure it is...any new collector that looks at a slab is more than likely to be attracted by, and understand, the colors than a complicated numbering scheme. CGC is catering to die-hard collectors with this change. And if limiting the appeal of their slabs is the goal? They've succeeded tremendously...

 

Jim

[Forbush-Man]

expect several collections to go on the open market.

 

 

and who do you suppose will buy them???...I'll tell you...Collectors...sheesh...seems like you're going around in circles here....

 

Maybe the "Coinees" will buy them.......they've got the "Money".

[joe_collector]

I just don't see this change as bad for new or old collectors...

 

Seriously? You really can't see how changing a Blue-Purple-Green format that has been in effect for almost SIX YEARS is a bad thing for newbie collectors?

 

It would be like changing all the stop lights to GREEN (with numbers denoting the old G/R/Y design) and then complaining that car crash victims need to "educate themselves more".

 

Old habits die hard, and many collectors will just drop CGC (Constantly Generating Changes) entirely. I know I am.

[ArAich]

You really can't see how changing a Blue-Purple-Green format that has been in effect for almost SIX YEARS is a bad thing for newbie collectors?

 

 

you forgot to mention the Red Label...I just don't think this altruism for the "newbie collector" is as genuine as everybody portrays...

 

On one hand..."We" say that newbies need to stop buying raw books on eBay auctions that are obviously scams due to the lousy cropped pics or the small decieving pics or whatever...

 

Then on the other hand "We" say that certification is bad now that the new labels will make it harder for newbies to comprehend...

 

It seems to me the problem is newbies...perhaps we just rustle them all together and ship them off to the moon since they are obviously screwing up everything...

[joe_collector]

CGC is making collecting safer by fine tuning their labels with more data...yeah the colors are changing but the data will be more precise..

 

I keep hearing this, but I don't really see it for the 95%+ of the market that deals exclusively in unrestored, Universal CGC books. What are they getting out of this stupidity?