Question about The Punisher's logo change...why? 4 4

[sfcityduck]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:03 PM, darkstar said:

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I now understand by IP you were not referring to the many non-canon books and comics.  The first such non-canon book was Splinter of the Mind's Eye.  It came out after Star Wars.  It is an enjoyable book, but it is not true to the characters as they developed across the first trilogy.  The second and third movies took the characters in different directions than Splinter of the Mind's Eye.  However, Splinter of the Mind's Eye was a plausible direction for the characters given the sketches we got in Star Wars itself. 

The lesson being:  When you have movies or tv shows presenting only sketches of characters (such as with Boba Fett), don't be surprised when they end up being developed in ways you did not envision.

[Beastfeast]

I've noticed a lot of people mentioning "pandering" in this thread and I'm curious why you think it's pandering if they switch directions and not pandering if they don't.  

Isn't pandering essentially capitulating to the wants of the consumer?  Which last I checked is the way the "free market" is supposed to work.  If there's enough of a sales hit or big societal backlash, they'll "pander" to that side and switch it back.  The only incentive for a company to do the right thing (whatever that is) is profit.  

[sfcityduck]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:16 PM, Beastfeast said:

The only incentive for a company to do the right thing (whatever that is) is profit.  

Historically, Marvel has not had that cynical view.  Stan made clear that the incentive to do the right thing was human empathy.

[sfcityduck]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:28 PM, Troy Division said:

Again, I ask -
Why haven't they made a comment about an employee / partner that directed a billion dollar movie for them that was just detained by police?
Because they have to craft the statement with all the right buzzwords.

Disney has clearly supported Ryan Coogler's career and has an on-going financial relationship with him.  

I think you are being a little too sensitive about how Disney should react to this situation that happened over two months ago.  Here's the facts as I can find them:

Quote

 

The director confirmed the incident to Variety. “This situation should never have happened,” he said. “However, Bank of America worked with me and addressed it to my satisfaction and we have moved on.”

Coogler was detained and handcuffed after he went to Bank of America to make a transaction on Jan. 7, according to the Atlanta police report. The 35-year-old director — who was wearing a hat, sunglasses and a COVID face mask — went to the counter and handed the bank teller a withdrawal slip with a note written on the back that reportedly read, “I would like to withdraw $12,000 cash from my checking account. Please do the money count somewhere else. I’d like to be discreet.”

The teller, however, misinterpreted the situation as an attempted robbery when the amount of the transaction exceeded $10,000 and triggered an alert notification from Coogler’s bank account. The teller then informed her boss that she suspected it was a robbery attempt and together they called the police. Four Atlanta PD officers arrived at the scene and detained two of Coogler’s colleagues, who were waiting for him outside the bank in a car with the engine running. They informed the officers who Coogler was and what he was wearing, which matched the description of the man suspected of robbing the bank. Coogler’s colleagues were detained in the back of a police vehicle, and Coogler was handcuffed and taken out of the bank by two of the officers. After verifying Coogler’s identity and his Bank of America account, the officers released him and his colleagues.

A Bank of America spokesperson told Variety: “We deeply regret that this incident occurred. It never should have happened and we have apologized to Mr. Coogler.”

 

I really don't think there is much, if anything, that DC needs to say given Coogler's statement, BofA's statement, and the facts.

[troydivision1]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:42 PM, sfcityduck said:

Disney has clearly supported Ryan Coogler's career and has an on-going financial relationship with him.  

I think you are being a little too sensitive about how Disney should react to this situation that happened over two months ago.  Here's the facts as I can find them:

I really don't think there is much, if anything, that DC needs to say given Coogler's statement, BofA's statement, and the facts.

I think if I worked for a company and helped create a billion dollar franchise it would warrant at least one comment from someone in the chain of command.
Tying it in to this comic topic...
I was trying (poorly) to address Disney's lack of publicly addressing their creations (Punisher logo) / creators (Ryan Coogler) when it comes to a segment of the public (law enforcement), so they can avoid criticism / protest.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Troy Division

[sfcityduck]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:50 PM, Troy Division said:

I think if I worked for a company and helped create a billion dollar franchise it would warrant at least one comment from someone in the chain of command.
 

Given that Coogler apparently worked this out with BofA quietly to his own satisfaction, it may be that he thinks nothing more need be done.  He says as much.  I have found no articles suggesting he feel any criticism towards Disney is warranted.

[troydivision1]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:53 PM, sfcityduck said:

Given that Coogler apparently worked this out with BofA quietly to his own satisfaction, it may be that he thinks nothing more need be done.  He says as much.  I have found no articles suggesting he feel any criticism towards Disney is warranted.

True.
He may not, but my second opinion still stands.

[sfcityduck]

On 3/11/2022 at 12:55 PM, Troy Division said:

True.
He may not, but my second opinion still stands.

You make a good point.  Apparently Disney is learning a lesson with its stealth approach to the Florida situation.  

[troydivision1]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:57 PM, sfcityduck said:

You make a good point.  Apparently Disney is learning a lesson with its stealth approach to the Florida situation.  

I always go back to a quote from Fight Club when I read about a company's (in)decisions.

"Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

Edited March 11, 2022 by Troy Division

[sfcityduck]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:08 PM, Troy Division said:

"Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."

That's a reference to the facts of the famous Ford Pinto gas tank problems.  Ford got hammered by the jury in the Grimshaw case.  Subsequent litigation results have caused smart businesses to avoid that thinking from circa the 1970s.  

[jsilverjanet]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:37 PM, THE_BEYONDER said:

 

a big P would have been better 

[troydivision1]

On 3/11/2022 at 4:16 PM, sfcityduck said:

That's a reference to the facts of the famous Ford Pinto gas tank problems.  Ford got hammered by the jury in the Grimshaw case.  Subsequent litigation results have caused smart businesses to avoid that thinking from circa the 1970s.  

Thank you.
I never knew that or that it changed.

I use it in conversation as how I envision board meeting about 'hot button issues' a corporation faces by focusing on potential money loss instead of empathy when it comes situations.
(see previous SW examples...beating dead horse with that one I know)

Edited March 11, 2022 by Troy Division

[Gonzimodo]

On 3/11/2022 at 2:37 PM, awakeintheashes said:

There is a reason. 
 

  Reveal hidden contents

Somehow the Hand can bring back the dead…

 

Okay, so the big question is answered.  Still seems dumb to me, but hey, to each his own, I guess.  But I just thought of another question.  From another panel I saw in this thread, it appears that the Hand wants Frank because they've seen firsthand what a relentless killing machine he can be.  If that's the case, are they nerfing him by taking away his guns and just letting him use swords, or are they still letting him use guns?  If he's now just another Hand guy with a sword, why would they do that?  It kind of seems to defeat the purpose of recruiting him in the first place.

Huh, apparently I'm more interested in this story than I thought... 

[Lord Gemini]

On 3/11/2022 at 3:24 PM, jsilverjanet said:

a big P would have been better 

They could have come up with something much more simple and stylized, and I would have been on board. This is overwrought and silly.

[wombat]

I think we can all agree the main takeaway from this thread is how absolutely annoying Star Wars fans are. 

[Ares]

On 3/11/2022 at 1:23 PM, Gonzimodo said:

The Punisher wouldn't even work for Heaven, who I assume would have been pointing him toward the worst of the worst to kill.  (Yes, I brought up that terrible direction Marvel briefly took with him. Sorry, everyone.)  I really don't understand why in the world he would agree to work with one of the most infamous criminal organizations in the world (many of whose members he's killed in the past), and since Jason Aaron is writing it, I don't care to waste the money to find out, either.  The new logo is laughably dumb, and this direction sounds dumb.  Nice one, Marvel! 

Raising someone from the dead.

 

[darkstar]

On 3/11/2022 at 2:09 PM, sfcityduck said:

Your view is unconvincing to me.  The scenes you cite establish only (1) Boba Fett is a bounty hunter, (2) he has a reputation for being good at his job, and (3) Vader wanted a capture, not a killing, and wanted proof the job was accomplished (which a disintegration would preclude).  All of that matches up with the Book of Boba Fett.  

I have read almost all of the books.  And if you haven't read those, I don't know why you are complaining about character inconsistencies.  Boba Fett was a rough sketch in Empire and Return.  If that's all you got, he could go in any direction you want. 

Fett willingly entered into combat with one of the most powerful Jedi in the universe twice, perhaps on Cloud City Skywalker's abilities were unknown to Fett but by the time he fought him on Tatooine, he definitely knew so I'm not exactly sure how you are unconvinced that the audience was supposed to interpret him as something other than a smart, ruthless badass. And that remains consistent with how he is portrayed in his appearances on the Mandalorian when he slaughters those storm troopers and dispatches Fortuna. Cut to the Mandalorian and he's befriending locals, getting cucked by local politicians, and using diplomacy to settle disputes.

 

[sfcityduck]

On 3/11/2022 at 6:10 PM, darkstar said:

Fett willingly entered into combat with one of the most powerful Jedi in the universe twice, perhaps on Cloud City Skywalker's abilities were unknown to Fett but by the time he fought him on Tatooine, he definitely knew so I'm not exactly sure how you are unconvinced that the audience was supposed to interpret him as something other than a smart, ruthless badass. And that remains consistent with how he is portrayed in his appearances on the Mandalorian when he slaughters those storm troopers and dispatches Fortuna. Cut to the Mandalorian and he's befriending locals, getting cucked by local politicians, and using diplomacy to settle disputes.

 

Yeah, you and I view the character arc differently.  You are starting at point A and criticizing point Z all the while ignoring B through Y.  It's a character arc, the character had some transformational experiences.  And they are all consistent IMHO.  I think you thought Boba Fett was the Punisher.  He's just a Mandalorian bounty hunter who is not the cold dark person you thought he was.

FYI - Luke was a neophyte Jedi in the third movie still.  And Boba Fett didn't do anything that Luke didn't expect.  Luke pretty much kicked his and sent him to his near-death.  In my view, Boba Fett is a Han Solo type in armor.

[darkstar]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:33 PM, sfcityduck said:

It's a character arc, the character had some transformational experiences. 

You see that is what doesn't make sense though, because the way the creators wrote the Book of Boba Fett they have Fett coming out of the desert as a changed man after surviving the Sarlacc pit and his time with the Tusken raiders, which makes sense, but he appears as his old self in his scenes in the Mandalorian and not as the reformed Boba Fett that appears in the Book of Boba Fett. So it doesn't work. 

[darkstar]

On 3/11/2022 at 8:33 PM, sfcityduck said:

 

FYI - Luke was a neophyte Jedi in the third movie still.  And Boba Fett didn't do anything that Luke didn't expect.  Luke pretty much kicked his and sent him to his near-death.  In my view, Boba Fett is a Han Solo type in armor.

Luke was a one man army coming into the Jabba's Palace alone, threatening him, killing the rancor, and then wrecking those two skiffs full of henchmen though. Plus Fett watched his father get killed by a Jedi so at that point Fett knew the danger. This is simply not the same character that you see in the Book. Mandalorian, yes. Book, no.